Page Montgomery K. Miller, civil engineer, Oakland, Calif., regarding the mineral lands in the Southern Pacific Railroad grant....... Vernon Metcalf, secretary Nevada Livestock Association, Reno, Nev., leases on an area basis and fencing individual allotments--- Lloyd L. Root, State mineralogist in charge of the California State Min- Opposed to the extension of the national parks in California__ Article from the Stockton Record, September 5, 1925, urging the proposed extension of the national parks in California___ Oswald Wilson, San Francisco, Calif., presenting a statement of the West- Authority to commercialize grazing resources of the national forests. E. A. Sherman, Associate Forester, United States Forest Service, Wash- ington, D. C., regarding Supervisor Smith's statement on the authority to commercialize grazing resources of the national forests---- Transcript of notes of discussion on mineral rights at Grass Valley Regional Mineral Conference on September 15, 1925; readjustment of mineral rights under railroad grants, homesteading act, and stock- Charles S. Haley, Kahweah Molybdenum Mines Co., San Francisco, Calif., letter from, protesting against the proposed extension of the LOS ANGELES, CALIF., SEPTEMBER 25, 1925 Harold S. Ryerson, secretary-manager the Conservation Association of Resolution on behalf of water conservation and fire protection_-_. C. E. Kelsey, president the Conservation Association of Southern Cali- Opposing extensions of the national parks in California_-_. 3816 H. S. Gilman, president the Angeles Forest Protective Association, San Dimas, Calif., regarding watershed protection_-_ Charles G. Dunwoody, director Department of Conservation, California Explanation of resolution urging regulation of grazing on the pub- 3819 3845 George H. Barnes, president the American Reforestation Association, Los Angeles, Calif., regarding the reforestation problem in the United John A. Bell, consulting engineer, advisory engineer, the flood-control district of Los Angeles County, San Gabriel, Calif., regarding water- shed protection and the water supply--- Resolution regarding the agricultural use of public lands___ George E. Trowbridge, lawyer, Los Angeles, Calif., regarding the value of 3843 3844 3844 Fage Lloyd P. Austin, president the Resort Owners' Association of the Angeles National Forest, Pasadena, Calif., regarding the recreational use of the Leon Atwood, land agent, the Arrow Head Lake Co., San Bernardino, Calif., regarding the recreational use of the national forests. Resolution regarding the recreational use of the national forests___ (laude Moore, representing the Homesteaders' Association of California, Taft, Calif., regarding homesteading and mineral entries--- Lewis E. Aubury, former State mineralogist of California, Burlingame, Number of permits issued, classified according to grades, and number of stock grazed, 1909-1924, inclusive, district No. 5, California_. Analysis of grazing permits from 1909-1924_. Recreational use of the national forests---. H. W. Keller, chairman roads and highways committee, Automobile Club of Southern California, Los Angeles, Calif., regarding roads in the LOS ANGELES, CALIF., SEPTEMBER 26, 1925 Claire S. Tappaan, professor of law, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, Calif., urging the proposed extensions of the national S. C. Evans, agriculturist, mayor of the city of Riverside, Calif., urging the proposed extensions of the national parks in California___. 3887, 3898 0. K. Morton, district attorney, Riverside County, Calif., urging the proposed extensions of the national parks in California_ Stephen T. Mather, Director National Park Service, Washington, D. C. NATIONAL FORESTS AND THE PUBLIC DOMAIN TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 1925 UNITED STATES SENATE, The subcommittee met (pursuant to adjournment at Reno, Nev., on yesterday) in the Palace Hotel, San Francisco, Calif., Tuesday, September 22, 1925, at 2 o'clock p. m., Senator Robert N. Stanfield (chairman) presiding. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. Gentlemen, this is a meeting of a subcommittee of the Committee on Public Lands and Surveys of the United States Senate. We are holding hearings under Senate Resolution 347 passed by the Senate in extra session last April, and that resolution is: Resolved, That the Committee on Public Lands and Surveys, or any duly authorized subcommittee thereof, is authorized to investigate all matters relating to national forests and to the public domain and their administration, including grazing lands, forest reserves, and other reservations and lands withdrawn from entry. Now, the withdrawn areas include the forest reserves, Indian reservations, mineral reservations, national parks, national monuments, game preserves, or any other areas that have been reserved from the public domain. For the purpose of this resolution such committee or subcommittee is authorized to hd hearings and to sit and act at such places and times; to employ such experts and clerical, stenographic, and other assistants; to require by subpoena or otherwise the attendance of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents; to administer such oaths and to take such testimony and make such expenditures as it deems advisable. We are not calling witnesses. We are accepting testimony and statements of anyone that is concerned with any question pertaining to any of the public lands, whether they be questions pertaining to mining, Indian reservation, timber, grazing, or of national park extensions. There are innumerable questions that have come before Congress relative to the public lands, and Congress is eager to know all that is obtainable from the people directly, and that is the reason that it has asked this committee to go into all of the 11 public-land States and hold hearings, in order that those who want to appear may have the opportunity. That is why we are here to-day, gentlemen, and we will be pleased to hear from anyone who desires to be heard. At this time I am going to call Congressman Kent. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM KENT, KENTFIELD, CALIF. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kent, will you give your name and address to the reporter? Mr. KENT. My name is William Kent. Address, Kentfield, Calif. Formerly a Member of Congress from 1910 to 1916. Interested in livestock in Nevada and Nebraska. Member of the Public Lands Committee of Congress from 1913 to 1916. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kent, have you a statement that you will make to the committee in your own way! 7? Mr. KENT. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I want to make a rather general statement first, subject later, I trust, to questioning. My conception of the public domain, the public lands of the United States, is that they were held in trust for the people of the United States, and whenever any of these lands were turned over to the States they were turned over in trust for the people of the State. It has always seemed to me that the use of various sorts of public lands and public assets in these lands, in being held for the highest benefit of the people, should bring and lay the burden of proof upon the authorities of the Federal Government or the State Government as to the highest and best use and most proper and adequate disposal. It seems to me obvious, for instance-and I beg your pardon for digressing from the grazing topic-it seems to me the proper theory, for instance, as regards timber, that the Government or the States should not have parted with the fee-simple title to the timberlands; that these should have been sold and administered on a stumpage basis, which would have prevented the overloading of individuals who were forced to cut timber and sacrifice timber in order to run a profitable business. Whereas if the timber had been held in public hands and sold on a stumpage basis it would have been a benefit to the lumberman, who would have known where to cut the timber, and who would not have been forced to destruction by the pressure of debt. To my mind the same thing is true of the coal situation. If the coal mines had been held in the hands of the Federal Government and the several States and the right to mine coal had been disposed of under leases there would not have been the waste, the destruction, and the wretched situation that now follows that business, where men are forced to mine to keep their heads above water lands that should not be mined, lands that are below the margin of operation, as we might say, and where waste is going on, where labor conditions are bad, because a man feels under obligation to take coal where he can not properly pay his men or give them proper conditions. All these things would have been averted under the policy of the retention of the fee-simple title by the State or by the Federal Gov ernment. And it is not at all an excursion into the realm of socialism. It is common, ordinary sense. There is nothing in the leasing proposition that ought to be abhorrent to our present-day civilization. Indeed, private leases are recognized, and private sales of stumpage, and private leases of coal are recognized, as the commonest practice among the private holders. Now, when we come to the grazing lands I believe that a great mistake has been committed and almost irreparable harm done |