out unloading. They were on the cars from fifty-five to sixty hours, and when we commenced we ran them alternately in that way with those that we unloaded, and we found that the buyers much preferred those that came through without unloading and would always give them the preference, and very often would pay us from 5 to 10 or 15 cents per hundred more money for them.

Mr. STEVENS, of Minnesota. Why?

Mr. BOICE. Because they are less bruised.'

Mr. STEVENS, of Minnesota. Would there be any difference in weight?

Mr. BOICE. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEVENS, of Minnesota. In what respect? Which would be the heavier?

Mr. BOICE. The cattle that came through were quite a little heavier. Mr. STEVENS, of Minnesota. And they arrived in better condition? Mr. BOICE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it your judgment, from your wide experience on this subject, that it will be more or less humane to run the cattle through or to take them off at the end of every twenty-eight hours? Mr. BOICE. It would be decidedly more humane to run them through.

Mr. STEVENS, of Minnesota. Is it your experience, from your large business, that the railroads will run the trains through as fast as they can, or would it be better if a law should require them to make a speed limit?

Mr. BOICE. I fear that in putting a speed limit in the law there would be some complications in connection with it, and I very much question our being able to get the law through.

The CHAIRMAN. I was going to ask you whether your observation upon that subject was directed so much to the futility of a speed limit or to the fear that the influence of the railroads would be exerted in opposition to the proposition?

Mr. BOICE. I will sav, Mr. Chairman, both.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that all, Mr. Boice, that you wish to say to the committee?

Mr. BOICE. There is one matter that I think possibly has not been touched on very much, and that is: When these cattle are unloaded at the end of twenty-eight hours, say, that after they have filled with water they are not fit to be reshipped, and very often, if they are only shipped on the cars ten or twelve hours, the results are more disastrous than when they have been on the cars from thirty to thirtyfive hours.

The CHAIRMAN. Why are they not fit to be reshipped?

Mr. BOICE. They are filled with water, and in that nervous condition nearly invariably they scar badly.

Mr. RYAN. The doctor stated in his testimony that it was perhaps unwise to feed and water cattle for at least ten hours before the first shipment. That applies, according to your argument, to the unloading points, too, does it?

Mr. BOICE. Yes, sir.

Mr. RYAN. That it is unwise to feed and water them very much at those places?

Mr. BOICE. Yes, sir. I do not know as I understand the last question.

Mr. RYAN. Is it unwise, also, to feed or water them to any great extent at those points when they are to be reloaded at once and shipped on in a few hours?

Mr. BOICE. I think the plug should be pulled several hours before they are reloaded. The water troughs should be empty.

STATEMENT OF J. V. VICKERS, ESQ.

Mr. VICKERS was duly sworn by the chairman, and testified as follows:

The CHAIRMAN. What is your name, residence, and occupation? Mr. VICKERS. J. V. Vickers; Tombstone and Los Angeles. I am a cattleman and stock grower.

The CHAIRMAN. We would be very glad to have you make a statement about this proposition, if you so desire.

Mr. VICKERS. I am very pleased to have the opportunity to add my evidence as an operator in this section for the last twenty years or more to the evidence of the gentlemen preceding me, and especially Mr. Eckels, who has bought a good many cattle, and has been interested in the same section.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you ship cattle to Los Angeles?

Mr. VICKERS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they ship cattle from there this way?

Mr. VICKERS. No, sir; but we ship a great many cattle from Arizona this way, and some to the north. In South Dakota we have a few cattle, and we have shipped a great many cattle to Kansas City from a point called Texhoma, Okla., which is about 473 miles, I think, from Kansas City. Since this law has been enforced we have suffered quite a loss, and our cattle have suffered a great deal of punishment on account of having to unload between Texhoma and Kansas City, which run should be made, and can easily be made, within thirty-six hours. And as Harrington is the point between Texhoma and Kansas City that comes along about the time when the railroad company gets afraid that they can not get to the market with the cattle within the twenty-eight hours, they are oftentimes thrown out at Harrington, in about twenty hours from the time they are loaded, and oftentimes in bad pens and stormy weather, to their great discomfort, and of course they get bruised up, as the gentlemen have nicely explained here, by being unloaded and loaded unnecessarily, where, under a law allowing them to be kept on the cars for thirty-six hours, they could have easily made the market and gotten to good, comfortable pens, without this punishment and bruising, which is a loss, as well as a punishment or cruelty, and therefore should be avoided for all reasons. That I know very well about, because we shipped several train loads last fall, and every one of them had to suffer that punishment and loss.

Mr. RYAN. Do you know of any shippers or growers of cattle that are in favor of the twenty-eight-hour law?

Mr. VICKERS. Why, none that grow cattle enough to amount_to anything. There may be a few shippers that only live ten or twelve hours from the market that think the law had better stay as it is. Some of them say that the railways would take thirty-six hours to take them to market, instead of twenty-eight hours, if they could,

but I think that comes from prejudice or ignorance or hostility to the railroads rather than from good business judgment.

Mr. RYAN. No big shipper or grower is in favor of the twentyeight-hour law?

Mr. VICKERS. Not that I know of; not one.

Mr. STEVENS, of Minnesota. You think the railways would run the cars through as quickly as they can?

Mr. VICKERS. I think so. They want to get rid of the cattle and cars and trains as quickly as they can. They have to pay their men all the time that they are at work. It is reasonable to suppose that they want to get their trains over the road and get them to pulling something else. All that they can get from us is one freight, anyway. Of course, on single-track roads the train is submitted to a great deal of delay, as you know, and a large amount of that is unavoidable. Sometimes we think we ought to get a little better treatment than we do get, but I think oftentimes that comes from our not knowing about the other business that the railways have to handle.

There is no question, gentlemen, but what cattle would be a great deal better off to be in the cars for thirty-six hours than to be thrown out at the end of twenty or twenty-five or twenty-eight hours, when a few hours more would take them to market. Harrington is only 149 miles, for instance, from Kansas City, and a downhill pull, so that it is no trouble at all for them to get there in the thirty-six hours, barring accidents.

In some of our northwestern shipments-I do not remember the mileage at the moment--but I have suffered, and our cattle have suffered very much in going to Los Angeles by having been unloaded. Last fall we had a train load going to Los Angeles, and they unloaded at Colton, 60 miles from Los Angeles. They were very fat beef cattle, and they were wonderfully bruised. The packing house managers complained very much about their being bruised, more so than ever before, simply because they were unloaded at Colton, and got bruised by going in and out of the cars. The cattle were rather wild, but you can not keep boys off the fences; they want to play smart and holler, and the engines keep running about, and the loss on those cattle by shrinkage was very great, and by punishment very cruel, and to the packer very considerable. That is just one instance that I remember that occurred last November.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that all that you wish to say to the committee? Mr. VICKERS. That is all I think of; yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF MORTIMER LEVERING, ESQ.

Mr. LEVERING was duly sworn by the chairman, and testified as follows:

The CHAIRMAN. State your name, residence, and occupation, please. Mr. LEVERING. Mortimer Levering. I am vice-president and manager of the Mallory Commission Company, and am a live-stock grower interested in some live-stock associations in Chicago.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any statement that you wish to make in reference to this bill?

Mr. LEVERING. I wish to ask the privilege of filing this paper, that has been rewritten since the one filed with the previous meeting,

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which was an address that I gave at Buffalo last July. I do not want to take up your time further.

I want to say this, though, to call attention to the fact that the men who have been here to-day representing this interest are all live-stock growers, practical men, who have been up against this trouble; men here to-day like Mr. Knollin, who has sold over $7,000,000 worth of sheep last year, and other men like Mr. Mackenzie, that have $3,000,000 or $4,000,000 invested in these animals, and the testimony is absolutely a unit on this matter. Here is a gentleman who has filed a petition signed by 50 shippers, and we can get you thousands of them, but we know that no man would read them. You can hardly find anyone but what has been converted to this subject, who has gone over the route. And concerning the people on the other side that have opposed it I want to ask if any of them have seen any cattle loaded in these Western States. During the past two years my business has called me to Texas, North Dakota, and some other places, looking after large cattle loans, and the cruelty is something awful. They have even taken oily waste out of the boxes, and tied it to the steers tails and set fire to it to make them move. Horses have been gored. One gentleman has seen five horses gored in one afternoon, trying to get the cattle out of the yard at Taylor, Tex. I saw men who had rocks in cans and pans and all that to get the cattle out, and I ask any of the humane people that think this is a sentimental proposition to go and see for themselves. They will be converted as I was.

I am not going to take up your time further, gentlemen.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you seen the communication, Mr. Levering, addressed by James M. Brown to the chairman of the committee on legislation of the American Humane Association and to the members of this committee, concerning yourself?

Mr. LEVERING. No, sir; I have not read it.

The CHAIRMAN. I will show you a copy of it. Is Mr. James M. Brown here, and does anybody know whether he wishes to be heard? [After a pause.] He does not seem to be here. I will let you look at this, Mr. Levering. As long as it has been sent to the committee about you, I think that is proper.

The paper above referred to by Mr. Levering is as follows:

IS THE OPERATION OF THE TWENTY-EIGHT-HOUR UNLOADING LAW

HUMANE?

By MORTIMER LEVERING.

(For twelve years president of the Lafayette Humane Society.)

On the third of March, eighteen hundred and seventy-three, Congress passed an act to regulate the shipping of live stock and the same at once became a national law. The exact text of it reads as follows:

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'SEC. 4386. No railroad company within the United States whose road forms any part of a line of road over which cattle, sheep, swine, or other animals are conveyed from one State to another, or the owners or masters of steam, sailing, or other vessels carrying or transporting cattle, sheep, swine, or other animals from one State to another, shall confine the same in cars, boats, or vessels of any description for a longer period than twenty-eight consecutive hours without unloading the same for rest, water, and feeding for a period of at least five consecutive hours, unless prevented from unloading by storm or other accidental causes. In estimating such confinement the time during which the animals have

been confined without such rest on connecting roads from which they are received shall be included, it being the intent of this section to prohibit their continuous confinement beyond the period of twenty-eight hours, except upon contingencies hereinbefore stated.

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"SEC. 4387. Animals so unloaded shall be properly fed and watered during such rest by the owner or person having the custody thereof, or in case of his default in so doing, then by the railroad company or owners, or masters of boats or vessels transporting the same, at the expense of the owner or person in custody thereof; and such company, owners, or masters shall in such case have a lien upon such animals for food, care, and custody furnished, and shall not be liable for any detention of such animals.

"SEC. 4388. Any company, owner, or custodian of such animals who knowingly and willingly fails to comply with the provisions of the two preceding sections shall for every such failure be liable for and forfeit and pay a penalty of not less than one hundred nor more than five hundred dollars. But when animals are carried in cars, boats, or other vessels in which they can and do have proper food, water, space, and opportunity to rest, the provisions in regard to their being unloaded shall not apply.

"SEC. 4389. The penalty created by the preceding section shall be recovered by civil action in the name of the United States in the circuit or district court of the United States, holden within the district where the violation may have been committed or the person or corporation resides or carries on its business; and it shall be the duty of all United States marshals, their deputies, and subordinates to prosecute all violations which come to their notice or knowledge." In support of the passage of this law members of the important humane societies throughout the country were zealous and insistent. They had the cooperation of many leading humanitarians. The reasons given at the time for its passage were in the main true and of sufficient importance to convince a majority in the House and Senate to vote in favor of the bill.

This law was previously enacted by the legislature of Illinois in 1869, and was framed to meet the transportation conditions of that time, which were even more primitive and barbarous than those of 1873, when it was adopted as the law of the United States.

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The exact text of the Illinois law, approved March 31, 1869, reads as follows: SEC. 51. No railroad company or other common carrier in the carrying or transportation of any cattle, sheep, swine, or other animals, shall allow the same to be confined in any car more than twenty-eight consecutive hours (including the time they shall have been upon any other road) without unloading for rest, water, and feeding for at least five consecutive hours, unless delayed by storm or accident, when they shall be so fed and watered as soon after the expiration of such time as may reasonably be done. When so unloaded they shall be properly fed, watered, and sheltered during such rest by the owner, consignee, or person in custody thereof, and in case of their default, then by the railroad company transporting them, at the expense of said owner, consignee, or person in custody of the same; and such company shall have a lien upon the animals until the same is paid. A violation of this section shall subject the offender to a fine of not less than $3 nor more than $200."

As a matter of fact, the law requiring animals in transit to be unloaded every twenty-eight hours was framed to meet the conditions which existed about forty years ago, and it stands to-day substantially as originally framed. That it is obsolete, unsuited to present conditions, and should be modified, are the firm convictions of nearly every intelligent stockman who has no special local or private interest to serve by upholding the law as it stands.

Admitting to be true that the conditions then justified the enactment of such a law, the enforcement of it after a period of thirty-three to thirty-eight years seems unwise and entails discomfort and cruelty in a majority of cases, rather than to give relief, as contemplated by the text of the law.

The third of a century last past has shown such wonderful changes in everything relating to the subject that it is difficult to draw a mental comparison and make the contrast of things then and now far enough apart.

It is indisputable that in those pioneer days of live-stock transportation shippers encountered greatest difficulties. The science of railways was yet comparatively undeveloped, and much of the country was undeveloped also. The railroad companies were poor, very poor. The building of railroads was hazardous and costly, their equipment meager, limited, and primitive, and the service incompetent. Accommodations for both live stock and people were crude and uncomfortable.