dation there to feed them, they were loaded up and sent on down to Laramie, and there unloaded. I could cite a great many cases of that kind.

We had hundreds and hundreds of cars of sheep all last year that were piled into Grand Island, simply because they could not make Valley or Fremont, where the accommodations were especially adapted for handling sheep, and where there were thousands of acres of pastures, and where the grass was green and there was running water; and the sheep would have gone on if they could have had four or five hours longer to a place where they could have been well cared for.

I have papers here which I want to file with the committee which will show that at Grand Island there were 226 sheep and lambs per acre for the pasture they had to accommodate them at one time. That matter has been taken up repeatedly with the officials of the Union Pacific Railway, and they say that they had no other pasturage facilities on their line available, so that they could arrange for properly handling the sheep under this twenty-eight hour limit ruling; that it would be impossible for them to get natural pasturage. And Mr. Giddings stated in his previous hearing that we did not care to take their word for it altogether, and a committee of wool growers was appointed and went over the road with the officials and found that that was true to a great extent. The conditions, as far as the grass is concerned in the far West, through Wyoming, are entirely different from what they are in the East. In Wyoming they have a State law with reference to quarantine of sheep from other States, and we are only allowed to unload and go out on the range at one point, at Laramie; so that if sheep are caught in that State before they reach Laramie, they are obliged to be held in the trains.

Lambs will never touch hay on the first run, when they are shipped in the summer time off of green fields. In connection with that I will say that a large percentage of the range sheep are accustomed to going forty-eight hours or longer without water. Water is scarce in many localities, and sheep will be grazed all day out from water, and camp one day out there, and the next day they will be grazed on still further, and the next day they will come back to that camping point, and the next day to the water. I have known of cases where they would be out for a week without water. They become accustomed to it and thrive while being handled that way. We handle sheep in the mountains where water is abundant, when they can get water every day if they want it, and they will seldom touch it. At that time the grass is succulent, filled with water, and they do not care for it. I do not think sheep suffer for the lack of water for thirty-six or forty-eight hours. In fact, I know they will not drink it after the first run.

In connection with the running of stock trains, in speaking of the customary way to handle sheep, a man that has handled a great number of them has learned that on the first run he wants to ask for a slow run. I have always done that when I have been with my sheep. I have seen to it that the first run did not exceed, perhaps, 12 or 15 miles an hour. And within two hours or three hours after we started we stopped and looked our train over, and after that is done twice, then we seldom have any need of leaving the caboose

to go to look at our sheep. They get accustomed to the cars and to the motion of the train, and in a great many cases they lie down. I have seen as many as a half of a car of lambs lying down after they have been on the road three or four hours.

Mr. STEPHENS, of Texas. In your experience as a shipper, have you found it any harder on the sheep to load and unload them at night than in the daytime?

Mr. KNOLLIN. It is absolutely impossible to unload them at night. I have a letter in my pocket with reference to the unloading of a train of sheep, at Montpelier, which I will file here with the committee, that I spoke of before. The sheep got into Montpelier, as I think the paper will show, at 5 o'clock. It was not a regular feeding station, and they have but two chutes there, and I think four pens that would probably accommodate ten cars of sheep. The train of sheep had been stopped previous to this, and, as Mr. Reeves, of the short line, has advised in a letter that I will file, they supposed that these sheep would be out of the way at Montpelier before this other train got in there; but in loading them up in the heat of the day, it took several hours longer than they expected to load them, and the other train got in there. They were using the chutes, and the sheep were held on the sidetrack until after the Japanese section men came in and had their supper. Then they went out and worked for quite a while, and pulled out about two cars of these sheep, by main force, and then gave it up and let the rest of the train stand there until morning.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it a common thing for sheep to eat wool off each other's backs?

Mr. KNOLLIN. I have seen shipments of sheep that were greatly abused en route, and I will say that I advocate a law that would not permit of running sheep over thirty-six hours. If they have been kept on the cars say forty or fifty hours, they will get hungry and eat the wool off each other's backs. I have found that the reason they start to do this is in starting, in the first place, to eat the paint that has been used for branding the sheep. We brand usually with a mixture of lampblack, linseed oil, and flour. We have found that that mark will readily wash out from the wool in the hands of the manufacturer and it holds well. The sheep will get to picking at that and get a little of that off, and that seems to start them to eat the wool, and they will eat quite a lot of it when they once get started. I will say, though, that it is exceptional and you seldom see cases of that kind, although I have seen it. You never see that happen in the summer time, but only in the winter, when the trains are badly delayed.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that all that you have to say to the committee, Mr. Knollin?

Mr. KNOLLIN. With reference to the running of sheep, I wanted to say in regard to the selling of the sheep in the market that have had these runs, that I made the statement to a railroad man that I would make affidavit that the loss to the sheep would be 50 cents a head on trains of sheep, owing to the delay in transit. I know the difference, because we do have some shipments that go through in good time. We had one shipment last year of 20 cars from Soda Springs to Laramie in twenty-six hours; from Laramie to Valley in

CATTLE-06 M-10

twenty-seven hours; from Valley to Lincoln in twenty-one and onehalf hours-seventy-four and one-half hours for 1,500 miles, or about 20 miles an hour. That shipment of lambs came through in splendid condition and sold to the packers readily. I have had other shipments come through that would be so worn out and dragged out that the feeders would hardly buy them. They would say that the life was taken out of them. The buyer would put his hand on them and say, "They are dried out and gone to pieces; we can not use them.” And the feeders would be poor buyers for the sheep, because it would take them two or three weeks to recuperate.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the matter with them? Were they affected by this law?

Mr. KNOLLIN. Yes. The trouble was that they had been unloaded too many times. I have handled sheep before this law was enforced for years, and since, and I have known of a great many instances of that kind.

Mr. RYAN. You had not had this trouble prior to the enforcement of this law, do you mean?

Mr. KNOLLIN. Oh, we have had a great many delays, but never so much of this trouble. Before the strict enforcement of the law, we never had ten per cent of the trouble that we have had since.

In connection with the handling of sheep over the roads, I want to say to you gentlemen that the stockmen, and this applies to the cattle shipper as well as the sheep shipper, are making every effort in the world to have an improvement of service over the railroads. I think that the railroad managers are making every effort that they possibly can to give us better service. They have assured us that they will give us better service, and the service on the western roads at present is 75 per cent better than it was 20 years ago, when I was shipping sheep at that time. The cars are much larger, roomier, the air-brake is applied to each car in the train at the same time, so that they are handled smoother, and the railroad men that handle these trains are trained to handle stock cars, where years ago they did not seem to care how much they tossed them about.

The stock business has increased so fast in the West and grown so fast in the matter of sheep that from 1884 up to the present time there has been an increase of the marketing of sheep of from about one million to nearly nine million head in the principal markets of the West. The railroads have not previously seemed to realize how rapidly this business was being developed, but they do now, and I think that we shall see a marked improvement in the service every year. In the meantime, the sheep shippers are a unit in wanting this time extended from 28 to 36 hours. We know positively that the 28-hour limit law has damaged us to the extent of thousands and thousands of dollars.

(The letters referred to by Mr. Knollin in the course of his testimony are as follows:)

HAILEY, IDAHO, July 23, 1905.

Started at 2.00 o'clock p. m. with bad engine in need of repairs, which caused delay all along the line. Delay at Pocatello one hour and a half on sidetrack. Arrived in Montpelier three-thirty (3.30) o'clock p. m., 24th; stood on sidetrack from before said time until eight (8.00) o'clock a. m., 25th, before unloading to feed. Was delayed two hours and a half at Cheyenne, July 27th. Left Laramie 27th at 10.00 p. m. Arrived at Grand Island 27th, 7.00 p. m. Forced to unload

and to feed at Grand Island instead of Valley as billed. Finished loading at Grand Island 9.00 p. m., 28th, and was delayed in yards until 11.15 p. m., 28th. Loss at Bellevue when we could have gone on a sheep train..

Loss at Pocatello__

Loss at Montpelier.

Loss at Cheyenne.

Loss at Grand Island_

Total_

7 hrs. 1 hrs.

17 hrs.

24 hrs.

21 hrs.

30 hrs.

We, the undersigned believe by loss of time has shrunk our thirty-three cars of sheep to the amount of $150.00 per car.

THE KNOLLIN SHEEP COMMISSION COMPANY,

Union Stock Yards, Chicago, Ills.

GENTLEMEN: The above numbers refer to claims filed by you, favor of J. J. Gray, A. Chadwick, and Gray & Chadwick, for $903.14, $791.37, and $524.70, alleged shrinkage on 28 cars of sheep from Bellevue, destined to Chicago, their complaint being based on improper handling at Montpelier, where stock was unloaded for feeding. We have given this a very careful investigation, the result of which beg to submit herewith.

66

When this shipment arrived at Soda Springs, conductor advised party in charge that it would be necessary to unload at that point on account of yards at Montpelier being full. This, however, the stock men would not listen to, and insisted on being run through to Montpelier, making the statement take us to Montpelier and we will look after the sheep." They informed the conductor that if attempt was made to unload the stock at Soda Springs it would be turned over to the company and they would have nothing to do with it.

This information the conductor wired to the chief dispatcher, and the latter, learning that 25 cars were loading out of Montpelier, figured that in all probability they would be out of the way by the time this shipment arrived, and as there was plenty of time to make the run within the limit, permitted the conductor to take your shipment through.

At 1.30 p. m., July 24th, the 25-car shipment started to load and under ordinary circumstances would have been loaded and out of the way before the arrival of your cars, but unfortunately soon after this loading was started a violent wind and sand storm came up, during which it was an utter impossibility to load the stock, and it was not until after 8.00 p. m. that the storm subsided sufficiently so that loading could be finished. Consequently your shipment could not be unloaded, as the former filled the yards and all available space outside the yards.

However, as soon as loading was completed, the train master, with gang of Japs and employees of the stock yards, used every possible means to unload your shipment, but it was simply impossible to do so, as the sheep had to be carried out and held or they would run back into the cars. By 8.30 it was cloudy and quite dark, and as you know, sheep can not be unloaded at such a time; consequently it was found necessary to hold them over until the next morning.

This, of course, was quite unfortunate, but the cause, as you will see, was something that was not within our power to prevent, and therefore must respectfully decline to further entertain the claims, and am sure, with the above explanation, you will readily recognize the justness of our position and withdraw the account.

The account sales submitted with your letters returned herewith, we having closed our records.

Yours, truly,

J. A. REEVES.

(Copy.)

Mr. C. J. LANE, A. G. F. A., Omaha, Nebr.

CHICAGO, July 5, 1905.

DEAR SIR: What are we going to do about the 28-hour law? I do not think I fully understand this law; just what way the Government has taken hold of it and under what department it is handled. It seems to me the shippers and the railroad people should take some concerted action with reference to eliminating the abuses that exist.

As an illustration, we have just handled a train of twenty-three cars of sheep. They reached Grand Island at six o'clock in the evening, having been on the cars 24 hours. Four hours of the 28-hour limit was not considered time enough to take them to Valley or Fremont, and as it was raining very heavy, the sheep could not be unloaded before dark, consequently remained in cars over night. It was raining heavy in the morning again, and the sheep were not unloaded until 9 o'clock. The owner, Mr. J. F. Skillern, was with the shipment and begged the agent at Grand Island to let the sheep run through to Valley. He was obdurate and would not even take the matter up with his superiors; said he had positive orders.

Now, it does seem, Mr. Lane, as if such abuses as this could be remedied if the matter was taken up with the right party in the right way. Can you make any suggestions?

Yours truly,

THE KNOLLIN SHEEP COMMISSION Co. By A. J. KNOLLIN.

OMAHA, August 6, 1905.

DEAR MR. KNOLLIN: The attached clipping tells the whole story about the twenty-eight hour limit and what we are up against. We were reminded of this matter by our Washington attorney several months ago, and every dispatcher on this railroad was instructed under no circumstances to exceed the twenty-eight hour limit or to try to make a butterfly run and take chance of scratching in at the next feeding point, and if he did not have ample time to make the next available feeding point to lay back, even if he had not been out over twenty or twenty-two hours, as we are told that to exceed the twenty-eight hours by five minutes is as bad as five hours, and the railroad I work for will not take any chance whatever of exceeding the twenty-eight hour limit.

All the arguments of your letter of the 5th have been set up and sent to Washington repeatedly, trying to show the authorities there the absurdity of perfunctorily going through the performance of unloading sheep at a point where they can not be cared for, and the only reply we get back is "Obey the law." No official in Washington has any authority to change its provisions. Congress alone will have to do it, so we have organized all of our Representatives and will bring to bear all the influence we can to get, at least, relaxation enough so we can run through to a grazing point, especially for sheep, where they can be comfortably cared for, filled, as well as rested, and watered.

I understand this is the position taken by all lines operating in the territory west of Chicago. Was talking with a general manager of one of the Chicago leading lines Monday here. He said his railroad was going to obey the law literally and fearlessly, regardless of the protests of its patrons.

Under favorable conditions we can make the run, first to Laramie, where ample grazing facilities have been provided, and then, if everything goes right, we can get to Fremont or Valley for the next stop. But everything has to go right to do that, and when we can not, there is nothing left for us to do but to unload at Grand Isle.

Would thank you to return this slip, if you will, after noting. It was taken from the Minneapolis Journal of July 1. The Government has been peppering us with their warning publications on this point for several months.

Yours truly,

Mr. A. J. KNOLLIN,

U. S. Yards, Chicago, Ill.

(Signed)

C. J. LANE.