material can in part be used in the manufacture. I know of no specification for bars whose requirements cannot be met at a price, but there is no mill that can- produce at moderate cost a grade of iron that will stand 50,000 pounds tensile and give an elongation of 25 per cent in 8 inches.

In this connection I will try and answer an inquiry of Mr. Yeomans of a few days ago, namely, how the test of a coupon taken from the side of a steel plate would positively represent the quality in the body of the sheet. For all ordinary purposes the ordinary mill practice does this, but it does not always absolutely represent the interior. The edges of the sheet sometimes show lamination. Coupons should be taken far enough from the outer edge of the sheet so as to embody a part of the solid plate; of course, to do this will increase the percentage of waste which the consumer will have to pay for, but it is the only means by which the test coupon will actually fairly represent the interior of the plate.

MR. WILLIAM FORSYTH (C., B. & Q. R. R.): The gentleman has suggested a subject I once discussed at another club, that is, the feasibility, the wisdom and advantage of adopting standard specifications.

Now, I would like to bring up the question here with the railroad people and with the supply people, whether it would not be an advantage to each if the Master Mechanics' Association could adopt standard specifications for the majority of materials which are used in that department of railroads.

If I read this paper

MR. J. F. DEEMS (C., B. & Q. R. R.): rightly it is not in favor of specifications, as we usually apply that term, but in favor of buying on a service test, I believe. At the bottom of page 2 it says, "Broadly speaking, this should be the sole aim of all specifications, namely, guaranteed service."

A thought that occurs to me is that there are many things on a railroad that it would seem to me a supply man could hardly sell in that way. For instance, take the items mentioned here, boiler tubes. The life or service of a boiler tube depends, nine-tenths on the way it is applied as against one-tenth on the quality of the material.

Now, you take bearing metals, and a great deal depends on the treatment in service, so that it seems to me, taking that statement broadly, as it is made here, it is very difficult indeed to apply it.

It would seem to me it would be quite impossible for supply men to sell many things on a guaranteed service test. The question will come up as to who is at fault in case of failure, because in many of these things the work of applying it is of so much more importance than the material itself, and the treatment that it receives in service, the life of the material, so to speak, depends so much more on that than on the quality of the material to start with. It seems to me there is no way of buying those things except on specifications.

Many other things might be enumerated, but these are a few of the thoughts that occurred to me.

MR. HUBBELL : Mr. President, it was not my thought in any way to undertake to tell just exactly how purchasing under specifications should be conducted. I simply jotted down the thoughts that came to me on the subject, revised the paper and handed it to our Secretary.

It has been said that if we wish to get at a book, that we can do so only when we have first ascertained what was the author's thought, the author's intent, and so, generally, you must take what I have said with regard to the purchasing under specifications, that is, more with the spirit that is intended to be conveyed than perhaps the exact letter. Referring to that portion of the paper to which Messrs. Soule and Deems make special reference-Broadly speaking, this should be the sole aim of all specifications, namely, guaranteed service." language implied in that hardly conveys the meaning I had intended. I have not meant to decry specifications, as was developed in the remarks of one of the speakers. I believe in specifications, and I think I have stated that fact, but I am everlastingly against hobbies, because, in my experience. I have seen just exactly where they led to the wrong results.

As an illustration, a certain superintendent of machinery, not long since, sent a requisition to his purchasing agent for a certain machine tool. It so happened in this particular instance, of which I have rather full knowledge, that the purchasing agent was thoroughly conversant with machine tools; he had had considerable experience with them. The purchasing agent was instructed by his management to buy that which the requisition specified, but this fellow was something of a trader, and he thought before placing that order it might be wise to get a price, and he got a price not only from the maker of this one tool, but from other makers of a similar tool. They were not all alike, of course, but you will find some of the makes of all these

makers in some of our railroad shops; they are all doing business, and, I presume, likely that each one of the manufacturers will produce the usual list of testimonials, longer than your arm, saying that the tools are all right. The order was finally placed for the tool specified in the requisition at a little better price than had been named to the superintendent of motive power when he made the requisition specifying the tool. After some time had elapsed after the placing of the order, in response to a punching up from the office, they advised the purchasing agent that they were unable to furnish the tool.

This will answer the gentleman on my right, who attacked the question of the wisdom of the purchasing agent being allowed discretion in these matters. In this particular case, had the purchasing agent been allowed to exercise his discretion, he would have saved the company a little over one hundred dollars in the first purchase price, and they would have had the tool in use in their shops all this time. As it is, they have not got it and will not have it for some sixty days yet, and they will have to buy it where that purchasing agent was first inclined to buy.

Now, in regard to staybolt iron, there is staybolt iron and staybolt iron and still some more. There are, however, a number of reputable concerns manufacturing staybolt iron, and I know something about staybolt iron that I am not going to tell in this meeting.

I have made the statement distinctly in the paper that price is not the sole basis of values. There are only certain articles that I purchase wherein price is my guiding star. There are some things that I buy, that I buy solely on the basis of price. For instance, monkey wrenches. A railroad's consumption of monkey wrenches is not in the use of them, but the main source of expense in that line is from theft, and it is poor policy to buy the best, as a general proposition.

On boiler tubes, I believe in buying boiler tubes on master mechanics' specifications; by that I mean specifications of the Master Mechanics' Association.

I hope that in these supplemental remarks I have made, I may have been able to give a little clearer idea as to what I mean in regard to the guarantee of service. It is comprehended in your specifications, but word your specifications so that the result will not be to accomplish that which the gentleman sitting in front of me has just said, namely, an increased cost of the article purchased, thereby increasing your operating expense and decreasing the sum to the credit

of profit and loss account. It is the sum placed at the right hand side of "profit and loss" account annually, which affects the salaries of railroad men, and that is what personally interests you.

PRESIDENT HETZLER: If there are no further remarks on this subject, we will proceed to our next paper, namely, "Notes on a bending test of an M. C. B. arch bar truck," by Prof. C. V. Kerr.

Notes on a Bending Test of an M. C. B. Arch Bȧr

Truck.

By Prof. C. V. Kerr,

Armour Institute of Technology.

Some months since, some tests were made at Armour Institute of Technology on an M. C. B. arch bar truck, which are thought to be of enough interest to bring before the Club.

The truck, before tests were made, is shown in Fig. 1. The load was applied

at the center by short lengths of I beams, so placed as to distribute the load in the ordinary way. The car axle was represented by a short piece of shaft, supported at each end, and in turn supporting the end of the truck with the brass in the usual position.

Three series of loads were applied to the truck with the purpose of ascertain