MR. RHODES: I have been quite interested in this report of Mr. Stark's, although I have not given it the attention that the report deserves, but I propose doing so later.

It seems to me that this is a matter that can very well be taken up with the supply departments of the different railroads. Perhaps master mechanics do not have enough of the loading to do to get much interested in a subject of this kind.

On our line we have a central distributing point where we do a great deal of loading, and it is my intention to take this paper up with our supply agent and his loading foreman, and see whether we cannot conform to the recommendations made by Mr. Stark.

There is one criticism that I would make. I was going to interrupt Mr. Stark and ask him how this loading described on page 4 was accomplished; how the trucks were got under the two cars, but fortunately I did not expose myself. By a little more careful examination, I see there are three cars there, and I would suggest that the cuts be made a little plainer, which may be easily accomplished by representing the three cars without hose connection between, as is done in cuts Fig. 6A and Fig. 7A on page 2 of this pamphlet.

Mr. Stark, on the third page of his paper, speaks about the danger of loading ties in cars, crosswise of the car in place of lengthwise. Last week, when I was in South Dakota, I noticed an instance of the danger from that very thing. The ties in the bottom of the car had been laid lengthwise, and then to avoid putting stakes up, those above had been put crosswise; something had shifted the load and the ties projected on the top some two or three feet beyond the regular width of the car which, as Mr. Stark says, is a dangerous proposition on a double track road, and not a safe one on a single track road.

MR. R. D. SMITH (C., B. & Q. R. R.): I have read this paper with considerable interest, and would say that I believe this subject to be one that is almost entirely dependent upon local conditions. While it is true that it is governed, to some extent, by the road upon which the load originates, I think that the remedy lies with the receiving road; i. e., it is the duty of the road receiving the car to make such changes as are deemed necessary, in order that the load may be safely handled. I would, therefore, question some of the recom

mendations that Mr. Stark has made.

He recommends that long sills and similar pieces be loaded on edge this would require, as he says, more care in fastening, and

I seriously doubt that there would be sufficient improvement to compensate.

The addition of two center bearings, as recommended on page 2, for long timbers, appears to me to be of small practical utility and considerable extra expense. If twin loads are properly put on the cars, I do not think that there will be enough sag to warrant the increased expenditure for center bearings.

For transporting cross ties and fence posts, I consider the use of box or stock cars to be the safest and best method. As time is not generally an important factor with this class of freight, it can be held until there are empties going in the desired direction.

With reference to discontinuing the use of spacing blocks, I cannot agree with Mr. Stark, even for cars fitted with M. C. B. couplers. It was the practice to place a wedge between the two drawbar heads when the link and pin coupler was used, and thus take up the slack. This cannot be done with the M. C. B. coupler, but the slack in the rear end attachments can, and should, in my opinion, be taken up by spacing blocks.

In regard to the use of safety chains, I believe that they are of value where twin loads are handled, and if the business is extensive it would be economical to equip the cars with permanent safety chains. On the Burlington, however, there has been a rule in force for several years against the use of chains on twin loads, and I do not believe it has caused any extra expenditure on account of shifting loads, etc., while there has undoubtedly been a great saving in chains.

There is one point in connection with twin loads which I think is worthy of notice, and that is on such loads I think we ought to disconnect the uncoupling devices on M. C. B. couplers, and fasten down the locks wherever they are of such a pattern that they tend to crawl.

MR. STARK: I would like to make one correction. Mr. Smith referred to a recommendation here with reference to loading long timber. If he will notice, in the lower part of page 2 it says, "the foregoing are simply suggestions, and not recommended changes."

I believe, however, on giving the matter more thought, that it is worthy of consideration. He speaks of the two inner bearings being of little value. If we can increase the loading and carrying capacity 25 per cent, I think it is of considerable value, and inasmuch as we can load successfully T and girder rails to the full marked capacity

on the four bearings, I see no reason why we cannot load long timber in the same manner, except that we have not got the same facilities for clamping the load in the center, even though we should continue to load 75 per cent of the marked capacity. The two inner bearings are quite essential. To load 75 per cent of the marked capacity on one bearing on each car is the worst test that we can give the car, and I find that on cars loaded that way, very frequently the sills are fractured.

In regard to the spacing blocks, referring to the old custom of driving a wedge in between the coupling link and the coupler head, this amounted to about as much as these little blocks that we put in back of the buffer horn. The first time the slack of the train runs up it smashes the block. The roads that run out of the Pittsburg and Lorain districts, where they handle so many of these double loads, have about come to the conclusion that these little blocks do not amount to anything.

MR. R. D. SMITH: I certainly did not express my ideas correctly, if I said that the extra center bearings would be of no value, and I desire to make a correction. What I do wish to say is that I do not think there is sufficient necessity for center bearings, in the majority of cases, to justify the increased cost. They require to be planed or lined with iron, lubricated, and otherwise carefully constructed, in order to perform their function without shifting the load, and I think we can get along without their use.

In reference to what Mr. Stark has just said concerning the loading of cars, the trouble is usually caused by not placing the crosspieces properly. There is but little danger of breaking a car if the cross piece is put up over the needle beam instead of in the center. If the length of the load prevents placing the cross piece over the needle beam it should be placed as near to that position as possible. PRESIDENT HETZLER:

order to adjourn.

Adjourned.

If there is no further discussion, it is in

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