Sir Albert Rollit. 1. You are the honorary secretary of the National Sea Fisheries Protection Association, are you not?-Yes. 2. Which holds its meetings at Fishmongers' Hall, does it not?—Yes. 3. Were you appointed in the year 1888? -Yes. 4. The association was originally founded in Norwich, I believe, in 1882, was it not?—No, at Lowestoft. 5. The objects of the association are, I believe, the protection of the interests of those engaged in the sea fishing industry and the trades connected therewith ?-Yes. 6. The promotion and improvement of the harbour accommodation and the consideration of all questions affecting those engaged in the industry? Yes. 7. What is the number of members connected with your association ?-One hundred and eightythree, and 57 affiliated bodies and associations. 8. I believe affiliated bodies have been formed throughout England round the coasts?—Yes, and Some in Scotland too. 9. Can you give me any estimate of the number of men connected directly and indirectly with the association and represented by the association?-Approximately about 80,000. 10. I believe that for some years past, in cousequence of the quantity of immature fish landed, that you have had conferences and congresses, both national and international at the Fishmongers' Hall?-Several. 11. I will take the conference of the 13th of November 1888 of the trawl fishing industry. Sir Albert Rollit-continued. Will you read the resolutions which were passed on that occasion ?-" (1.) That we find a large and distressing diminution in the North Sea of soles, turbot, plaice, and all flat fish, and view with alarm the future unless some steps are immediately taken to prohibit the catching of immature fish. (2.) That the conference petition Her Majesty's Government, urging them to enter into negociations with all Continental Governments to establish an international law to prohibit the wilful catching of immature fish, and to make it unlawful to offer such immature fish for sale." 12. I believe a very important meeting was held of the trawl fishing industry at Hull on the 30th of April 1890 ?-Yes. 13. Will you read the resolutions that were then passed, which you will find at the bottom of page 4 of your proof?" That this Conference of the Trawl Fishing Industry of the East Coast, consisting of delegates from Hull, Grimsby, Yarmouth, Lowestoft, Scarboro', and Boston, having realised the enormous loss which the trade has sustained year by year through the wholesale capture and destruction of immature and inedible fish, hereby resolves that the time has come when a strong and united effort should be made to put a stop to this growing evil; and as a preliminary step in this direction it is agreed by the whole of the delegates here assembled for themselves individually and the companies, corporations, fleets, and associations they represent, to abstain during the coming summer from fishing on the grounds where immature fish are generally caught in great abundance, such 2 May 1893.] Mr. TowSE. Sir Albert Rollit-continued. grounds being specified in the next resolution." "That the fishing grounds or nurseries where experience has found immature fish to be most prolific, and which are referred to in the foregoing resolution, shall be defined as follows: That part of the North Sea the eastern boundary of which is the German and Danish Coasts, western boundary, longitude, 7 deg. 30 min., northern boundary, latitude 56 deg., southern boundary, latitude, 53 deg. 50 min.' "That the term immature fish shall, for the purpose of this conference and for the carrying out of the preceding resolutions, be interpreted to mean as follows: A lemon sole which measures less than 12 inches, a sole which measures less than 10 inches, a turbot which measures less than 12 inches, a brill which measures less than 12 inches, a plaice which measures less than 11 inches. In all cases from the end of the nose to the end of the tail." "That in the opinion of this conference it is highly necessary for the future wellbeing of the trade, and for the preservation of an important food supply, that Parliament should be asked to impose restrictions upon the sale and purchase of immature fish as defined by this conference; and that the delegates from the ports here represented who attend the international conference to be held in London during the summer, under the auspices of the National Sea Fisheries Protection Association, are hereby instructed to press for legislative interference of a national and international character." 14. I think similar resolutions were passed by the London Fish Trade Association ?—Yes. 15. Held at Billingsgate Market on June 26th, 1890? That was so. 16. I will not take you you through those. Similar resolutions were again passed, were they not, at a meeting at Fishmongers' Hall on June 30th, 1890?-Yes. 17. Now I will take you to the following July, that is July 1891, page 9 of your proof. An international conference was held at which, I believe, representatives attended from Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain, and the United Kingdom, at Fishmongers' Hall, when the resolutions were adopted, which you will, perhaps, kindly read?-"That this con"That this conference considers it desirable that an official international conference of European maritime powers should be held, with the view of concluding a convention for the prohibition of the landing and sale of undersized flat fish within their respective jurisdictions. That this conference, moreover, considers it desirable that before the official conference meets, the different nations interested in the sea fisheries of European waters will collect, with as little delay as possible, sufficient information, scientific as well as statistical, with regard to the damage done by the capture of undersized fish by their fishermen. That the National Sea Fisheries Protection Association be requested to formulate a set of questions with a view to obtaining scientific and statistical information in relation to undersized fish, and forward it to each delegate, in order that he may submit it to his Government for adoption." [Continued. Sir Albert Rollit-continued. 18. I believe in pursuance of the last resolution you did circulate inquiries and you received replies from Hull, Aberdeen, Grimsby, Great Yarmouth, and Plymouth, a summary of which you produce?—Yes. 19. Some exception was, I think, taken by the Dutch Government?—Yes. 20. Of what nature was that, can you tell me ?—Yes. The Netherlands delegate proposed to proceed as follows: "Each nation interested in the fisheries of flat-fish in the North Sea undertakes to investigate where, when, and to what extent a destruction of young fish, and especially not yet marketable flat-fish, takes place. This investigation is only performed when the other nations interested in the question are willing to execute similar researches. They are to last at least a whole year. The reports brought forth by each delegate are laid before a meeting of delegates. They contain the answers to the following questions: What should be the minimum size of the various kinds of flat-fish for market purposes? Would it be sufficient to prohibit the sale without at the same time prohibiting the capture or landing? Is it desirable to establish regulations for the size of the mesh of nets? Would it be suitable to restrict or prohibit trawling at certain periods during certain seasons or at certain areas ? What form or formulation legislative interference should take? This meeting is instructed by a written report drawn up by a committee of the delegates, and the committee may be appointed by writing. The delegates instructed in the said way may deliberate as to the measures necessary for the protection of the small, not yet marketable fish (especially flatfish). They are to try to agree with one another and subject the measures they agree upon to their respective governments. The governments are to come in negotiation with one another and decide in how far they will execute the proposed measures." 21. The Dutch Government, I believe, made some protest?—Yes. So. 22. Have you got that?-No; but that was 23. I think afterwards the scientific portion of the matter was taken up by the Marine Biological Association, and, in combination with that, you took steps to obtain information from Grimsby, and other ports, did you not ?—Yes. 24. Can you tell me what regulations have been made by other nations on the subject of the catching of immature fish. Take, for instance, the Belgian Government. The Ostend Chamber of Commerce, I believe, passed a resolution; will you read that ?" That it is necessary to prohibit the sale of undersized flat fish, and power was given to the King of Belgium, in a recent law passed in that country, to carry out any restriction which his Majesty might find necessary. The following sizes are now in force, under the order of the Belgian Government." 25. I think you may put in this Table, which gives the sizes for Belgium, Denmark, and France. Will you put that in ?—Yes. The following Table was handed in: |