Approximately 90,000 such applications have been filed.

Mr. LUDLOW. You have no jurisdiction over motor carriers in intrastate business?

Mr. ROGERS. No, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Will you insert in the record a statement showing the number of contract carriers and the number of private carriers over which you have jurisdiction?

Mr. ROGERS. We had that same question during the hearing on the regular bill, and it is almost impossible to make that segregation now, because in so many of these cases that is the real question, whether a man is a common or contract carrier, and we cannot decide that until we consider his application on the facts.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I think you gave us an estimate of something like 100,000 carriers and 400,000 vehicles.

Mr. ROGERS. That is right; that is the total. To break it downMr. WIGGLESWORTH (interposing). I do not want it broken down, but I wanted the record to show the total.

Mr. ROGERS. We estimate that, roughly, there are 100,000 common and contract motor carriers subject to the act, and those carriers operate in the neighborhood of 400,000 vehicles.

As to the private carriers, which are subject to the act to a lesser extent, we estimate there are some 750,000 trucks and busses, principally trucks, operated by these private carriers, but there are no dependable statistics as to how many carriers that involves. We have not had sufficient funds to undertake the regulation of private carriers. Mr. WOODRUM. Do your people work overtime?

Mr. ROGERS. In the last 12 months the present force has put in approximately 135,000 hours of overtime. Frankly, we are working the force so hard that I am afraid they are going to crack up, especially the leaders.

On the other hand, Members of Congress and the operators themselves are critical about the inability to get action on motor-carrier matters.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What was your request to the Budget for 1939?

Mr. ROGERS. It was $4,239,000. That was reduced in the estimate. submitted here by something more than $700,000.

Mr. WOODRUM. Were you given a hearing before the Senate committee when they reduced your appropriation?

Mr. ROGERS. No, sir; no hearing at all.

Mr. BARTEL. I might state that we had a letter from Senator Glass saying that they had the record of our hearing before the House committee and that that would be considered; that they did not care to duplicate it unless there was something we wanted to add to it. We told them we saw nothing that we could add unless there was something they desired. They did not ask for anything further.

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 26, 1938.

NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD

STATEMENTS OF J. WARREN MADDEN, CHAIRMAN; CHARLES FAHY, GENERAL COUNSEL; NATHAN WITT, SECRETARY; AND MRS. B. M. STERN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY

PRINTING AND BINDING

The CHAIRMAN. We have before us an item in House Document No. 491 providing for a transfer of $40,000, from the appropriation for salaries and expenses, fiscal year 1938, to the appropriation for printing and binding for the same year for the National Labor Relations Board.

Will you give us a statement in reference to that matter and explain why you are asking for that transfer?

Mr. MADDEN. Our problem is that of transferring a sum of money from our appropriation for general purposes for the fiscal year 1938 to the purposes of printing during the balance of the fiscal year.

Our expenditures for printing during the first half of the year made it very plain that we could not carry on our work for the second half of the year upon what was left of the printing appropriation. So we approached the Bureau of the Budget with reference to this transfer of funds.

The purposes for which we use our printing funds are practically beyond our control, in the sense that we are required, by the act of Congress, to print the decisions of the Board and the annual report we make to Congress.

We are required to go into the Circuit Courts of Appeals of the United States to secure the enforcement of orders made by the Board, and under the rules of those courts we are obliged to print the transcript of the record which has been made in the hearings before the Board. Although we have succeeded in winning nearly all of our court cases, yet, again, under the rules of the courts, the Government does not recover costs in the cases in which the Government is a party to the litigation.

Mr. WOODRUM. Is there any way by which you could charge any fees for those transcripts and thus recoup any of the costs of that printing?

Mr. MADDEN. You mean for the printing of the transcripts?

Mr. WOODRUM. Yes.

Mr. MADDEN. I suppose not. A great many of them are printed in the field by whatever printer the court gives that printing business to. Each court usually has one or more local printers who do satisfactory printing work.

Mr. WOODRUM. That is for the briefs you file in court, and also the records?

Mr. MADDEN. Yes.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you print more than enough for your own use? Mr. MADDEN. We do not, although, of course, it is the original setting up of the job where the cost is. The first 50 copies cost practically as much as several hundred copies.

Whether the printers have any sale or not, I do not know. But we do not have any right to sell anything. The things that the Government Printing Office prints for us, the decisions and annual reports, are sold by the Government Printing Office. But that does not help our funds directly, because we have to pay, in the first instance, for the setting up of the job and the necessary number of volumes. Mr. WOODRUM. In the appropriation bill for 1939 you were given $125,000 for printing by the House?

Mr. MADDEN. Yes.

Mr. WOODRUM. Was that amount reduced in the Senate?

Mr. WITT. Yes, sir. They took $40,000 off of that.

Mr. WOODRUM. This transfer would give you $125,000 for printing and binding in the current fiscal year 1938?

Mr. MADDEN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. How much of a balance do you figure you will have in your fund?

Mrs. STERN. In the general fund out of which this $40,000 would be taken, it would be very difficult to figure just what the balance would be. But the amount we have would be ample to take care of this transfer of funds.

How much more there will be taken out of this fund before the end of the year, and how much there will be left at the end of the fiscal year, it is difficult to tell, because the Board is not only employing additional personnel but is having to take additional space in the field and to provide additional equipment.

So we cannot tell just how much we will have left at the end of the fiscal year. There will be a surplus out of personal services and other expenses in the amount necessary to meet this transfer.

Mr. TABER. In the report it says that during the first 6 months of the fiscal year you were obligated to the amount of $62,500 for printing and binding. Do you have a break-down of that showing how much of that was for reports and how much for briefs, and what not? Mr. MADDEN. Yes, sir; we can give you a break-down of that. Mr. TABER. Will you put that in the record?

The CHAIRMAN. You say you will print records. What kind of records?

Mr. MADDEN. Those are court records, transcripts of records. The CHAIRMAN. We will insert this break-down in the record. (The statement above referred to is as follows:)

Printing and binding funds are expended for the following general purposes: 1. The printing of advance sheets of all the Board's opinions and orders, which are sold to the public by subscription through the Government Printing Office and are subsequently bound into volumes and submitted to the Congress and to the President in accordance with the provision of section 3 (c) of the National Labor Relations Act.

2. Printing for purposes of litigation, which consists of printing of all official records, briefs, petitions for review, etc., in accordance with the provisions of the various United States Circuit Courts of Appeals and of the United States Supreme Court.

3. The Annual Report which is provided for by section 3 (c) of the National Labor Relations Act.

4. Printing for elections conducted pursuant to section 9 (c) of the National Labor Relations Act, consisting of notices for posting and ballots.

5. Administrative printing such as forms, stationery, etc.

Following is the allocation of incurred and estimated expenditures for the current year.

It will be noted that the total of estimated expenditures for the last half equals that of the first half but the allocation of funds to the various items is changed somewhat.

1. Decisions: Each volume of the Board's decisions contains approximately 1,000 pages. It is estimated that a total of five volumes will be issued during the fiscal year 1938. This includes the cost of printing the single volume comprising decisions rendered in the fiscal year 1937. So greatly has the number of decisions increased during this fiscal year that volume III was completed during the months of July and August. Volume IV is nearly completed at the present time. Volume V will be printed during the months of January, February, and March, and volume VI during the last 3 months of the fiscal year. Total cost of each volume of the Board is $5,560 including binding.

2. Litigation: In practically every case in which the Board petitions for an enforcement order before the appropriate circuit court of appeals, the complete transcript of the record and the exhibits in the case must be printed at the Board's expense. Such printing is done under Department of Justice contracts. So far in the current fiscal year, obligations totaling approximately $26,065 for this item alone have been incurred. It is estimated that the balance of the year will see an expenditure of no less than $29,000 for the printing of transcripts of record. As you no doubt know, the Government does not recover costs in its cases.

Comparatively few briefs were completed in the first half of the fiscal year, and it should be borne in mind that in all cases in which the Board petitions for enforcement one or two briefs at least are required to be printed at the Government Printing Office. Similarly in all cases in which an aggrieved party petitions the United States Circuit Court of Appeals for modification or setting aside of a Board order, the Board must submit briefs. Thus the number of briefs exceeds the number of records which the Board must have printed, since unless the Board petitions it does not have to pay the costs of printing the record.

3. Forms and stationery: $160 more for the last half of the fiscal year is being requested. The staff of the Board is being steadily increased and as this occurs the use of forms and stationery, etc. increases.

4. Election procedure: Notices of election, ballots, and instructions concerning the conduct of elections must be printed in the field in connection with the procedure provided for by section 9 (c) of the act. The election device is being more and more frequently resorted to by all parties concerned in a dispute as to representation. The current division in the ranks of labor contributes to the frequency with which procedure is called for. An increase of $1,000 is allowed for the last half of the current fiscal year based on our experiences of steadily increasing number of elections.

5. Miscellaneous expenditures for the last half are expected to equal those of the first half of the year.

6. Full expense of the annual report was encumbered the first half of the fiscal

year.

Mr. TABER. What records do you have to print?

Mr. MADDEN. Those are court records. That refers exclusively to court records. Those are the records for the appellate court. We go to the circuit courts of appeals of the United States in our cases with the testimony which has been taken down at our hearings and typewritten into what we call a transcript, and the law requires that that shall be made available to the court in printed form.

Mr. TABER. You go into the circuit court of appeals in the first instance to procure the enforcement of your decrees?

Mr. MADDEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. How many cases did you have where you had to go into court to procure enforcement, in the period from July 1 to December 31?

Mr. FAHY. We can give you that number exactly in the record, but I think there were between 20 and 25.

Mr. TABER. That means that you spent $250 on each case on the records?

Mr. MADDEN. They would average about $1,000.

Mr. TABER. How many pages do they run?

Mr. FAHY. Take, for instance, one case recently submitted to the second circuit. There were seven printed volumes of testimony. That was an unusually large case. That was printed during that period.

Mr. TABER. You do not generally have any such volume as that, do you?

Mr. FAHY. Not generally; no.

Mr. TABER. Generally, on the average, they would not exceed 150 pages, would they?

Mr. FAHY. Yes; they would. The average case would run around a thousand pages.

Mr. TABER. That costs about how much, not over 60 or 75 cents a page, does it?

Mrs. STERN. It costs an average of $1.03.

Mr. MADDEN. There is not very much on a page.

Mr. TABER. That is more than lawyers are accustomed to pay. Why could you not have that work done in the Government Printing Office?

Mr. TABER. They are printed under the supervision of clerks of

courts.

Mr. CANNON. Has there been any increase in the cost of printing recently?

Mr. MADDEN. I am not aware whether there has been any increase in our time or not.

Mr. CANNON. Have you been paying $1.03 for some time, or does that represent a recent advance?

Mrs. STERN. These contracts under which we print are entered into by the clerks of the various courts, as I understand it.

Mr. CANNON. Does each printer have a contract?

Mrs. STERN. They are Department of Justice contracts.

Mr. CANNON. They are printed by private firms?

Mrs. STERN. Yes.

Mr. CANNON. They are not printed by the Government Printing Office?

Mrs. STERN. This is just field printing. The price paid per page averages $1.03. It goes from $1.75 in the First Circuit, in Boston, down to 60 cents in the Second Circuit, in New York.

Mr. CANNON. That is a wide range, from 60 cents to $1.75.

Mrs. STERN. That is very true.

Mr. CANNON. That is a range of 150 per cent.

Mr. MADDEN. It seems very strange that the low figure should be in New York, but those are the contract prices.