The purpose of this estimate this year is a similar one, to reimburse the general expense allotment of the Forest Service for expenditures actually made to date and to provide a fund for the balance of this fiscal year.

I have some tabulations and other material here that may be of interest to the committee in this connection.

Mr. WOODRUM. We will insert this table in the record.

(The statement above referred to is as follows:)

Mr. LOVERIDGE. It will be noted in the third column in that table that we had about 2,000 more fires during the past year than the average for the past 5 years.

The increase is due mainly to the enlarged area of the national forests and to an increase in the number of lightning fires.

In columns 4 and 5 you will note that it shows that about 50 percent of the fires are lightning-caused and 50 percent are man-caused. In the western region the percentage of lightning fires was 67 percent. In individual regions the percentages were much higher. For instance, in the Arizona and New Mexico region the number of lightning fires represented 85 percent of the total, and in northern Idaho and Montana the percentage was 74 percent. This is a further indication of the impossibility of determining definitely how difficult the season will be.

In columns 9 and 10 there is a comparison of expenditures this year and in the previous 5 years. You will note that the amount this year is lower than the average for the past 5 years. I might say that our expenses have been as high as four million in some years.

This year we are asking for $1,279,417, and the last column in the table shows the total area in the national forests or the area within national-forest boundaries, which is about a quarter of a billion acres. That is, about one-third of the total forest area in the United States is given protection by the Forest Service and by the use of these funds that we are asking for.

On the chart that accompanies the tabulation it will be noted that there is shown there the progress made by the Forest Service in controlling fires. The solid line on the chart shows that the area burned has been reduced consistently, despite the fact shown by the dotted line that there has been a very serious drought since 1915, which resulted in a great accumulated dryness of the soil, which caused the forests to burn more easily than would have been the case with normal precipitation.

A break-down of the estimate is given by the Director of the Budget to the President and the Congress.

Mr. WOODRUM. Have you a break-down to show how much was expended for materials, travel, communications, and so forth?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Out of the total of $1,279,417 the approximate figures are $950,000 for the employment of fire fighters and their subsistence, and the balance is for transportation of fire fighters and the purchase of supplies and equipment, such as fire tools, mess outfits, bedding, and so forth.

Mr. WOODRUM. Is the $950,000 paid on a per diem basis or on an annual salary basis?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. It is on an hourly basis.

Mr. WOODRUM. They are all temporary people?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Yes, sir; employed to control forest fires after they have started and after the efforts of the regular organization have been exhausted. In this connection it should be stated that the 10,420 fires controlled before a size of 10 acres was reached caused very little expense to this appropriation.

Mr. WOODRUM. Emergency employees?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Temporary emergency employees.

Mr. WOODRUM. What wages do you pay them?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. We pay the current going wage in the vicinity, except that we pay somewhat lower than the going wage in order to

remove any desire to set fires. If the wage is 35 cents, for instance, we will pay 30 cents, or if it is 45 cents we will pay about 40 cents. Mr. WOODRUM. What about your administrative personnel? How much of that do you have, and what is the cost of it?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. That is financed entirely out of our regular appropriation.

Mr. WOODRUM. This money is entirely for the temporary labor, that is, the $950,000, and the balance is for materials and equipment? Mr. LOVERIDGE. Yes; it is all for unpredictable items.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The regular appropriation bill carries exactly $100,000 for this year?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Yes, sir; it has been that way for several years. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How does the actual expenditure this year compare with that of last year?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Last year it was about $2,000,000.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. So you are asking for considerably less for the fiscal year 1938 than you spent in the fiscal year 1937?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Yes; this is for the fiscal year 1938, for the fire season of 1937.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. This is for the fiscal year 1938?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. And the figure for the fiscal year 1937 was what you just stated, about $2,000,000?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. SNYDER. I observe that in item No. 7 of the table you have submitted that that covers the New England and Middle Atlantic States. How far west does that area or region run? That seems to be a low figure.

Mr. LOVERIDGE. That goes as far west as the crest of the Appalachian Mountains, and includes Virginia and Kentucky.

Mr. SNYDER. In all those States there were only about 3,800 acres burned over during the last year?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. Yes, sir; they had a very good record there.

Mr. SNYDER. How do you account for the fact that the acreage in that region is so low? Is it because there is better cooperation on the part of the States?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. We get very little cooperation from the States for the handling of fires in the national forests, because that is all Federal property. We had a great amount of help from the C. C. C.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How much help did you get from the C. C. C. and other activities in those cases?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. We got a tremendous amount of help. The figure would have been at least twice as high as it is had it not been for the help we received from the C. C. C.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Was there any other Federal activity cooperating with you?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. No, sir. We had some help from Emergency Relief employees, with a small number of W. P. A. workers.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What would that amount to in dollars and cents, have you any idea?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. A very small percentage is used in fire suppression. I presume it would run probably around $150,000.

Mr. LUDLOW. In view of the emergent and unpredictable nature of this work, and the fact that these men have no regular salaries to depend upon, how can you get help when the emergency breaks?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. We get crews from the employment centers in towns, and crews that are already under the employment of lumber companies. They are turned over to us.

Mr. LUDLOW. Is the labor supply available for instantaneous service?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. You will notice in column 7 of the table, covering the number of extra-period fires, that out of a total number of 11,586 fires for the year only 242 were out of control on the first morning after the fire started.

Mr. LUDLOW. How much fire-fighting personnel is under the Forest Service?

Mr. LOVERIDGE. We have about 4,500 guards, financed from our regular funds.

Mr. LUDLOW. With a domain of 226,000,000 acres to serve?
Mr. LOVERIDGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. LUDLOW. It seems to me you do a remarkable job to serve such an enormous area with such a small personnel.

Mr. LOVERIDGE. I thank you, sir.

THURSDAY, JANUARY 27, 1938.

BUREAU OF PUBLIC ROADS-INTER-AMERICAN HIGHWAY

STATEMENT OF E. W. JAMES, CHIEF, DIVISION OF HIGHWAY TRANSPORT, BUREAU OF PUBLIC ROADS

Mr. WOODRUM. We have before us an estimate in House Document 506 for continuing the survey and construction of the Inter-American Highway, requesting the use of not to exceed $34,000 from the administrative fund provided under the act of July 11, 1916, as amended. Will you give us a brief explanation of that item?

Mr. JAMES. Under previous legislation we have been authorized to furnish certain engineering assistance to countries in Central America which are members of the Pan-American Union, and we have done this work as authorized by Congress in connection with highways. Mr. LUDLOW. Is this amount reimbursable?

Mr. JAMES. No; it is not reimbursable.

In the course of the cooperative work three of the countries have voluntarily requested that we cooperate with them in a form which is legal, but which involves complications that we had hoped to avoid. We had wished to confine our work to bridge construction, for purposes of administrative economy; but three countries wanted us to help them on road construction; and two of these countries were up to this time uninterested in any bridge program. They did not want bridges; they wanted roads.

So the State Department approved a program of road assistance in Costa Rica and Nicaragua.

Such work is unlike cooperative bridge work; it cannot always be brought to a conclusion at a predetermined time or cost. The cost of labor is paid by the other country. All labor is hired and fired by local authorities. We have no obligation to secure or pay the local

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