wanted; but he undoubtedly considered that sugar was the principal point, and that every man who handled sugar was desirable to have as a member.

Q. Is it not a little singular that there is first, the New York State association, then the New York city association, and the National Asociation of Wholesale Grocers, all starting up very soon after the Sugar Trust becomes a perfected institution; is not the one the cause of the other, or the consequence in some form?

A. I do not think it is.

By the CHAIRMAN :

Q. You will furnish us with those papers?

A. Yes, sir; I will have the corrections made and send them up, together with the constitution and by-laws, and the resolution that has been spoken of, relating to selling to retailers.

[See appendix J.]

JOHN STAUNTON, being called and sworn, testified as follows:

By Mr. BLISS :

Q. Where do you reside?

A. City of New York.

Q. What is your business?

A. My business is treasurer and general manager of the Copper Mining Company.

Q. What companies?

A. A number; three Lake Superior companies, called the Atlantic Mining Company, the Central Mining Company and the Allowez Company.

Q. In the aggregate, about how much copper do they produce annually?

A. The Allowez has just been started up, after a few years lying idle; the three will produce 9,000,000 pounds.

Q. What is about the aggregate production of the Lake Superior mines?

A. Last year it was 72,000,000 pounds; the two mines that were worked last year produced about 6,000,000 pounds.

Q. What was your business before you became an officer of these companies?

A. I have been in no business but copper mining in my life; I have been in that business since 1852.

Q. In this city?

A. In this city; headquarters in this city.

Q. You know something about an agreement made between copper mining companies of this country, and what is known as the French syndicate?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that an agreement by the syndicate with each separate copper producer?

A. So far as I know it is.

Q. The companies which you represent have such agreements?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When were they made?

A. The agreements will show; I have a copy of them here.

[Copy of the contract with the Atlantic company put in evidence as follows. See appendix A.]

The WITNESS.—They are all alike, simply different mines in each word for word alike in other respects.

Q. This bears date, I see, April 19, 1888?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Your three companies made such agreements as these?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is it, then, your general knowledge that most of the other copper producing companies of the United States made similar agreements about that time?

A. Of my own knowledge I do not know; but I am satisfied that is the fact; by common rumor I believe it.

Q. Do you know whether the Anaconda has?

A. My impression is it had not.

Q. That is one of the largest producers of copper?

A. It is one of the largest, if not the largest.

Q. At Butte City?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Owned and managed by California capitalists?

A. Yes, sir; Mr. Hagan is supposed to be the principal owner. Q. This is an agreement between the Atlantic Mining Company of New York, a corporation organized under the laws of Michigan, etc., and the French syndicate?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. It is an agreement by which the sellers, which I take it is the Atlantic Mining Company, agree to sell to the other party the entire output of their mines for about three years, commencing May 1, 1888, and ending December 1, 1890, estimated at 4,500,000 pounds of copper for each of the three years?

[Reads the agreement, as given above.]

Q. It seems to be an agreement between your copper companies and the French syndicate to sell them all your product for two years and eight months?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And a similar agreement with, by all odds, a large majority in amount of the producers of copper of the country, is it not?

A. I believe so, as far as I know; I have never seen any other agreement, except the one I made myself; but I think they differ some in price.

Q. The Calumet and Hecla produce a large amount?

A. Yes, sir; about 50,000,000 pounds; a little over.

Q. Take the Calumet and Hecla and your own; those would represent about 60,000,000 pounds out of the 72,000,000 pounds?

A. I think there is no question but they have all made agreements, but I don't know it.

Q. Is there any other copper produced in the country where else is copper produced in the country, to any extent?

A. Lake Superior; Montana produced more last year than Lake Superior; they produced about 79,000,000 pounds.

Q. Do you know how large a proportion of that came from the Anaconda mine?

A. I should say three-fifths; then there is a large product from Arizona -18,000,000 pounds.

Q. Does the Arizona and the Montana copper come east?

A. Yes, sir; it has to come east.

Q. Before any arrangement was made it came into this market for sale?

A. No, sir; it mostly went to Europe via New York; the same parties bought most of it before these contracts were made.

Q. Under these contracts your companies have gone on producing copper and delivering it to the syndicate?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Has it remained in this country or gone abroad?

A. What could be sold here we have delivered for them; there is one clause which you probably did not notice; the provision that we were to receive one-half of what was obtained above thirteen cents, as a consideration for certain services; the selling, attending to delivery, the guaranteeing of sales and attending to collections?

Q. After having sold them the copper, you agree, if they desire it, to become their agents to sell to other parties as they desire to sell here?

Q. What is the present price of copper in the open market?

A. About seventeen cents, I think.

Q. What was the price of copper a year ago this time?

A. I don't remember exactly; I think it was about the present price, about sixteen cents.

Q. Since these agreements were made, and went into operation, what has been the effect, if any, upon the price of copper in the open market, here in this country?

A. Copper has not been as high as it sold at times, about January, prior to making these agreements; there has been very little fluctuation since these contracts were made; it remains about the same; we are supplying consumers, under the direction of the society as their agents, at sixteen and one-half cents; my average sales for the first four mouths were sixteen and three-tenths cents; that is about as near as I can come to an explanation; no sales were made in the open market, excepting occasional speculators selling in the open market; we sell directly to the consumers.

Q. Are you the only agents of the French syndicate in this market? A. Of this society; we act as their agents.

Q. You sell merely your own copper?

A. That is all.

Q. Take other concerns, Jeremiah Abbott & Co.; do they sell for the French syndicate?

A. They represent the syndicate here; I do not know what their business is exactly; they are made the agents of the syndicate here, and our business settlements are made with them; that is all I know* of their business.

Q. Are there representatives of other copper producers here, who have made such contracts, other than yours, that you know of in this market?

A. I believe there is one other in the city of New York; I believe the Quincy Mining Company is the only other company of Lake Superior, that has an office in New York; most of them have their offices in Boston.

Q. Is there any arrangement by which the price at which you are to sell copper is fixed; how is it fixed?

A. By Jeremiah Abbott & Co., the agents; we have nothing to do with it at all.

Q. If copper sold in the open market at sixteen to seventeen cents a year ago, and is about the same price now, what was the inducement to your copper producers to make an agreement to sell all of their copper at thirteen cents and one-half of the surplus?

A. I can not say what was the inducement to all of the producers; but my inducement was that, in my opinion, copper had advanced too rapidly; there had been for some months a very active speculation in the copper market both in Europe and here; and though I had sold a very large quantity of copper as high as eighteen cents, I had no confidence in the continuance of that price; and when I was met with the proposition to sell my copper at thirteen cents for three years, I thought it was the wisest thing I could do in the interest of the stockholders; I had no confidence that the price would be maintained; that was the moving reason and the impelling reason for my doing it. Q. Was thirteen cents more or less than the average price for the preceding three years?

A. I think more.

Q. But less than the price at which it had been sold for a year previous?

A. I may be mistaken as to the time copper began to rise, but I think about this time a year ago it had got up somewhere in the neighborhood of sixteen cents, having risen from about eleven cents in a few months.

Q. Since these agreements were made has the amount of copper produced in the country, so far as you know, increased or decreased? A. There will be a largely increased production this year; the stimulus of good prices is impelling us to take out all we can.

Q. There is a limit that you shall not go above a certain amount? A. When I was approached with a proposition to buy the output of the mine for a period of time, they wanted to know how much we could make in order that they could define their liability, and they allowed me to fix my own figures reasonably, leaving it to me to be reasonable with regard to it; and I fixed it at an outside figure that I knew that there would be no probability of my being able to work up to; the largest product of that mine before that was a little less than 4,000,000 pounds; this year I think we will take out a little more, but we can not reach the figure of four and a half millions.

Q. The effect of these agreements has been to increase the output? A. Yes, sir; and to start up new enterprises; I have started one myself, the Allowez.

Q. It has made the sale certain, but has not advanced the price? A. No, sir.

Q. Can you tell whether it has resulted in the accumulation of copper or not, or whether the production of copper has been taken by the consumers right along as before; the general impression is that it has led to the piling up of copper?