the part of the Navy to cooperate in providing the remedy in this immediate situation.

There may be some details of your statement concerning which members of the committee might like further or supporting information.

Are there any questions, gentlemen?

Mr. HESELTON. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Heselton.

Mr. HESELTON. Mr. Secretary, I want to personally express my appreciation for the constructive work that the Navy has done.

In this connection I have in mind a letter written to Gen. Phillip B. Fleming, Administrator, Federal Works Agency, by W. John Kenney, Acting Secretary of the Navy, in connection with certain shore installations. I wonder if those conversions have been made?

Mr. ANDREWS. Sir, I am not sure of that fact. If we do not have the information, and if the men here with me do not have the information, we will get it and let you know. I know that the effort is being made.

Mr. HESELTON. I think it would be very helpful to us, because I understand that in those cases conversions are contingent upon the availability of coal.

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes, sir.

Mr. HESELTON. And whether or not you will be able to obtain coal in sufficient amount. I think that is very important.

Mr. ANDREWS. Admiral Buck, Chief of the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts, is here. It may be that he will be able to give that information to you.

Admiral Buck. I cannot give it accurately this morning. That information will have to be supplied.

Mr. HESELTON. Can you get the information for us during the day? Admiral BUCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. HESELTON. So that it can go into the record of this hearing today?

Admiral BUCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. HESELTON. Those four stations as I recall them-I do not have the record with me-are at Boston, Quonset Point, Rhode Island, and Norfolk. I do not remember the other one.

Mr. ANDREWS. We will get that for you.

Mr. HESELTON. If you can, I would like to have it made a part of the record.

Mr. ANDREWs. We will get it for you.

The CHAIRMAN. It will be made a part of the record at this point. (The matter referred to is as follows:)

The activities and the estimated quantities of coal and fuel oil involved in this category are listed below:

Mr. HESELTON. I want to add to what the chairman has said; and, speaking personally, I think that the Navy is the only Department in Government that has taken vigorous action and constructive action. The Army stopped the process of converting to oil at Seward Field and Fort Myer, I am told. That is a negative help in one sense, but I do not consider that a substantial amount of help. I am glad that we have representatives of a department here who have done what you have done, and that is explore the possibility of conversion. I think that is all mighty important. We are asking civilians to take every measure possible for conservation. I think we should set the example.

Mr. ANDREWS. Absolutely.

Mr. HESELTON. And I think I agree with you and other representatives of the Government who have been here. We had a gentlemen from the Bureau of Supplies and Purchasing last December who made the astonishing statement to this committee that he was not able to get bids because the companies were not sure of their sources of supply, and then upon inquiry it developed that within weeks before that hearing, a great many conversions to oil had been undertaken by the Government in several buildings. The day after that a subcommittee of the New England delegation addressed a telegram to the President and to Congress for investigation of the possibilities of conversion such as you have actually carried out.

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes.

Mr. HESELTON. And we repeated that on the 19th, not having had any information on it, and then Mr. Steelman this last week, as I recall it, told us in a letter to each of us, that General Fleming was undertaking that examination and they hoped to have the full reports in by the 22d of this month. As yet I do not know what the results are. I did make a little study of it-I am sorry to bore you with this, but it leads up to another question.

Mr. ANDREWS. That is all right.

Mr. HESELTON. Another question which I want to ask you.

I made a little study of the gross floor space we have. I understand that the temporarily used floor space owned or operated by the Federal Government throughout the country-this was shown in the hearings before the Independent Offices Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations last year, and the information that I had was that it ranged to the excess of 98,000,000 square feet.

That immediately posed the question, How much of that 98,000,000 square feet is heated by oil? How much of it could be heated by other means?

You have suggested this morning the criteria you used of asking individuals to convert from oil to wood or coal or something else and I repeat that the first people in this country who should be on the job doing that and should have done it back in December is our own Federal Government.

Now, you have done it pretty successfully, I think. However, you will forgive me for asking you if you cannot do something more? Are there any other installations-and I am not just talking about installations from Norfolk along the northeast coast-but I think installations in other parts of the country. My friend from Tennessee [Mr. Priest] got hit pretty bad last night. I heard that they had 14. inches of snow down there. Then, there are various other States, cities, and towns that may be in bad spots.

71869-48-pt. 1—8

Are there not some installations in the South where the weather conditions are rather favorable, where it might be possible to do the same thing? Could you not look into that?

Mr. ANDREWS. If there are, sir, we will look into it and we will let the committee have the benefit of our information on the subject. We will do the best we can.

Mr. HESELTON. I think you could carry out an already well-started job a little further and maybe your example will be an example to the rest of the Government.

Mr. ANDREWS. Well, as I say, I do not know how far we have progressed, but I know we have started and I know we will continue to press the matter just as hard as we can.

Mr. HESELTON. The four installations I referred to I have now before me in the letter of January 9, 1948, from Mr. Kenney to General Fleming. They are: Norfolk naval shipyard, Portsmouth, Va., 590,000 barrels annual consumption, bunker C fuel oil; navaĺ station, Norfolk, Va., 610,000 barrels; naval air station, Quonset Point, R. I., 210,000 barrels; and Boston naval shipyard annex, South Boston, Mass., 10,000 barrels; total, 1,420,000 barrels. I concede that that is not necessarily going to relieve the entire situation so far as all private homes or hospitals are concerned.

Mr. ANDREWS. That is the point that I want to make.

Mr. HESELTON. But, will it not relieve such places as hospitalssome of them are heated on that basis?

Mr. ANDREWS. I think the larger the institution, the general rule is the heavier grade of oil they use. I am not technically qualified to express an opinion on that.

Mr. HESELTON. I think that I might say that that does promise some relief. And, on that point, I want to say that at the time of the Texas City strike, I know that everyone received scores of telegrams from heads, presidents, boards of directors of hospitals begging us to ask the Federal Government to do everything we could to effect a settlement there so that they could carry on in their hospitals.

I see that you have done a magnificent job. I only hope that you can continue your efforts.

We are doing our best. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ANDREWS. We are trying, anyway.
Mr. HESELTON. That is all; thank you.
(The letter above referred to is as follows:)

Gen. PHILIP B. FLEMING,

Administrator, Federal Works Agency.

JANUARY 9, 1948.

MY DEAR GENERAL FLEMING: The Navy Department was represented at the conference held December 30, 1947, in the Federal Works Agency on the subject of converting from fuel oil to coal in Government buildings, both in Washington and in the field. All agencies represented at the conference were requested to conduct surveys and to submit reports to the Administrator of the Federal Works Agency of reductions in fuel-oil consumption possible within available appropriations.

The information required for the report desired is available in the Navy Department obviating the necessity of conducting a survey of field activities. The Navy Department has taken positive steps as a routine procedure to conserve all utilities including fuel oil, directly and indirectly. Reports received from the field indicate the fuel-conservation program is being administered effectively through special attention to temperature control and avoiding wasteful practices. It is believed this program has no effect on the present fuel-oil situation, since the conservation of all utilities is the continuing objective of the Department as a matter of economy without regard to availability of fuel.

A substantial reduction in the present rate of fuel-oil consumption can be made by the Navy Department at certain shore establishments presently equipped to burn either fuel oil or pulverized coal. The activities and the estimated quantities of coal and fuel oil involved in this category are listed below:

The change can be accomplished as soon as adequate coal supplies are provided, and should result in a substantial reduction in fuel-oil consumption during the current heating season.

Further reduction in the consumption of fuel oil in succeeding years would result if certain facilities presently equipped to burn only fuel oil were equipped to burn also pulverized coal or gas. Funds are not presently available for projects in this category.

Sincerely yours,

W. JOHN KENNEY, Acting Secretary of the Navy.

The CHAIRMAN. May I inquire just at that point whether the oil that has been made available by the Navy to hospitals and similar institutions is usable in industrial plants?

Mr. ANDREWS. Admiral Buck can make that statement. I think it would be usable in industrial plants, but we have requested that the New England Sttes confine this to hospitals, and so forth, and those plants that have quasi-public responsibilities, such as power plants, transportation set-ups, and things like that. Is that not correct, Admiral?

Admiral BUCK. The oil we have usable for the purpose is commercial grade No. 6, which is very similar to the bunker oil for ships. It is a heavy oil. Whether it can be used or not depends on installations in the particular institution.

Mr. ANDREWs. You cannot make a general answer to that, sir, because it depends on their particular installations.

The CHAIRMAN. I can really understand why it might not be available for home use, but my question is prompted by the fact that industrial use, I would think, would not be appreciably different from the type of oil that would be used in hospitals, and so forth.

It may be that you have some information in that respect that would enlighten me on that subject.

Mr. ANDREWs. We can get that information for you. Your specific point is if the oil used in institutions of that kind is the same type of oil that is used in industry.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; having particular reference to the type of oil which the Navy has available for those institutions.

Mr. ANDREWS. All right.

Mr. PRIEST. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Priest.

Mr. PRIEST. Mr. Secretary, I believe you said normally, or at least prior to December, that the Navy chartered from the Maritime Commission 40 to 50 tankers per month?

Mr. ANDREWS. That is right.

Mr. PRIEST. And you had reduced that number in December from 43 to 34 and during the current month, as I recall your statement, only 13 tankers are on charter from the Maritime Commission? Mr. ANDREWs. That is my information.

Mr. PRIEST. That would release perhaps 37 that normally would be on charter for the Navy for commercial operations? Mr. ANDREWS. Thirty-four, I think we said.

Mr. PRIEST. Thirty-four.

Mr. ANDREWS. It would work out to that.

Mr. PRIEST. I suppose the next question I want to ask perhaps should be asked of the Maritime Commission. I am interested in knowing whether you know whether the tankers that ordinarily might have been used by the Navy had been put to commercial use for relieving the shortages in critical areas?

Mr. ANDREWS. Admiral Callaghan may be able to answer that question for you. Admiral Callaghan may be able to give you that information.

Admiral CALLAGHAN. I am sure that they are being used.

The CHAIRMAN. Will the admiral kindly give his full name and official position for the record.

Admiral CALLAGHAN. Rear Adm. W. M. Callaghan, Assistant Chief of Naval Operations for Transportation. The tankers that the Navy released have undoubtedly been used by the Maritime Commission on allocations to industry, or for sale to the prospective purchasers of the tankers.

Mr. PRIEST. Now, on an allocation basis, do I understand by that that the Maritime Commission, in your opinion, has some authority to allocate the use of these tankers to particular commercial companies for transportation on certain runs and into certain areas? Can they make that a requirement?

Admiral CALLAGHAN. That is correct, yes, sir.

Mr. PRIEST. Under the Ship Sales Act, does the Maritime Commission have any authority, supposing that they sold one or a dozen of these tankers to commercial operators, do they have any authority in connection with the sales contract to write in a requirement that they be operated in certain areas, and shall serve certain localities? Admiral CALLAGHAN. No, sir; they do not.

Mr. PRIEST. They do not have it under that act?

Admiral CALLAGHAN. They do not; but I am not the most competent witness to speak for the Maritime Commission in this matter.

The CHAIRMAN. May I say to the gentlemen from Tennessee [Mr. Priest] and also the witness, that we expect witnesses from the Maritime Commission before the committee.

Admiral CALLAGHAN. Should I withdraw my informal answer to that question, then?

The CHAIRMAN. I think probably it should be.

Mr. PRIEST. That is quite all right, if the Maritime Commission is coming up. They can give that information.

Mr. O'HARA. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. O'Hara.

Mr. O'HARA. Mr. Andrews, so that you may understand that hardships exist not only in New England, I come from Minnesota, where they really have cold weather.