Secretary JARDINE. We will have about 60 days in which to continue that work.

The CHAIRMAN. Sixty days afterwards?
Secretary JARDINE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. One of you stated it would be 60 days altogether. Secretary JARDINE. May be I am mistaken. We have a 60-day program.

Mr. WOOD. How can you do anything along this line 60 days after the 1st of May? A corn farmer, if he is a good farmer, will have his corn planted by the middle of May.

Mr. WORTHLEY. That is true; but there will be a lot of tenant farmers who will leave farms that will not be cleaned up. There will be barnyards and other places not cleaned up thoroughly and we will have to do the balance of the work. We figure that in 15 or 20 per cent of the area we will have to do the work ourselves. Mr. Wood. Wherever they leave old cornstalks around on the land you will have to clean them up?

Mr. WORTHLEY. Yes, sir: a lot of them will not half do the job, and if we come along and find that a man in plowing under the cornstalks has left a lot of them sticking up over the field, something must be done.

Mr. WOOD. What other items do you have there?

Mr. WORTHLEY. There is an item of field equipment, $2,418,960. Mr. WOOD. How long will it take you to get that equipment and machinery?

Mr. WORTHLEY. Some of it we can have by March 1.

Mr. WOOD. Is this cornstalk pulverizer that you have been talking about a new thing?

Mr. WORTHLEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOOD. Has it ever been tried anywhere?

Mr. WORTHLEY. Yes, sir; we tried it in the field in Ohio, and it was tried in Canada.

Mr. WOOD. Did you find out how many insects it destroyed?

Mr. WORTHLEY. It destroyed from 97 to 98 per cent.

Mr. WOOD. How did you arrive at that percentage?

Mr. WORTHLEY. By making an estimate of the borers in the stubble beforehand, and then, after the machine had run over the field, seeing how many living insects could be found.

Mr. WOOD. Is it not difficult to find the insects when you look for them?

Mr. WORTHLEY. It is quite hard; yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. There might have been several that you did not find. Mr. WORTHLEY. It is hard to find out.

Mr. WOOD. What other items do you have?

Mr. WORTHLEY. The next item we have is for barnyard cleaning, $49,825.

Mr. WOOD. Of course, every respectable farmer ought to, and does, keep his barnyard clean. He ought to keep his own barnyard clean, just as people keep their own dooryards clean. Mr. WORTHLEY. But they do not do it.

Mr. WOOD. With a little moral encouragement or suasion they might be induced to do it.

Secretary JARDINE. That is a point I discussed with them. asked them about those things, and they seemed to think it could not be done.

Mr. WOOD. That will be one of the troubles in this whole business. Everybody will be saying, "Let Uncle Sam do it," and if we let Uncle Sam do all this

Mr. PURNELL (interposing). If it can not be done otherwise, we ought to do it. From 50 to 75 out of 100 will actually do it, but if the other 25 or 50 do not do it, then all of this work' will be wasted. Mr. WOOD. There should be a law in every State compelling them to do it.

Mr. PURNELL. This will be an immense program.

The CHAIRMAN. If you are going to do that for every farmer, then good-night!

Mr. PURNELL. You have 90,000 square miles out there, producing this large proportion of the crops of the country, and if we have

Mr. WOOD (interposing). Here is the point I want to make, and this is human nature: If you are going to encourage the farmers to believe that we will come around every year and clean up their farms for them and clean up their barnyards for them, where will it end?

Mr. PURNELL. This is a one-year program.

Mr. WOOD. Initially, it is a one-year program.

Secretary JARDINE. They will have to do the job pretty well before I recommend its further continuance.

Mr. PURNELL. Of course, you gentlement have a lot of other things to do

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). We are doing this to-day.

FARMERS' INTEREST IN THE PROGRAM

Mr. PURNELL. I want to interject long enough to say that I was greatly surprised to know the interest there is in this in our section of the country, and in your section, too, among the farmers. I do not mean the men who want to saddle the responsibility on the Government, but I mean our most responsible men, our entomologists and our responsible agricultural men. There is, for instance, Wallace, our State entomoligist, who put in the entire summer, taking representatives of the farmers, who had been selected by themselves, up to Canada and in this Ohio region, so that they could see what was actually going on up there.

The CHAIRMAN. I am a farmer.

Mr. PURNELL. I know that.

The CHAIRMAN. I never saw anybody from any agricultural college, from the Agricultural Department, or from any of these county agents organizations in my life come around and tell anybody connected with our farming activities anything about what they ought to do.

I do not pretend to say I know about all the farmers, but I want to say to you that I know the farmers around where I live, and I have not seen a farmer who knows what it is about.

Mr. PURNELL. It is not yet there. That is the point I want to make.

The CHAIRMAN. I am not talking about this particular thing; but I have not seen a farmer who knows what all this agitation to give the farmers something is about. They all get along, and do their work in their own way.

Mr. PURNELL. That is another field. I am talking about the cornborer field. I know of specific communities in Indiana where the farmers hooted at the idea of the corn borer threatening their crop. But when Frank Wallace, our State entomologist, took the representatives of the farmers from different counties, selected by the farmers themselves, and went up there, they came back and held their local meetings, and our people are alive to the fact that this is about the biggest farming problem we have in this country right now, to handle the corn borer.

Mr. Wood. The thing about this proposition that does not appeal to me is this. I am in favor of eradicating this pest if it can be done.

Mr. PURNELL. It can not be eradicated; it can be controlled.

UNWISDOM OF PAYING FOR DOING WHAT THEY SHOULD DO FOR THEMSELVES

Mr. Woon. The thing I do not like about it is giving the farmer a premium for doing something he ought to do for himself. You are proposing to spend this money for doing that which they should do as a matter of self-defense.

Mr. PURNELL. There is a special provision that they shall not be paid for doing things which are usual and normal farming practices, and it is left to the Secretary of Agriculture to say what those things are.

Mr. WOOD. Suppose you were running a farm in Fountain County, and it became evident to you, from the experience that Mr. Wallace had that in the next year, unless you did the very things you are proposing to do under this bill, such a condition would face you; you would do them, would you not?

This

Mr. PURNELL. I might, but suppose my neighbor does not. is a national threat, and you can not justify the failure of the Government to do the things that a small percentage of the farmers would do, if the larger percentage of the farmers do not do the things they ought to do.

Mr. WOOD. That is why you should have a State compulsory law. Mr. BYRNS. If it was a question of a campaign of education, I could understand it a little more clearly than I do. But it seems to me if you start on a proposition of cleaning up the barnyards you are going to run into hundreds of millions of dollars, and you will be back here again next year.

REGULATORY LEGISLATION REQUIRED OF STATES

Mr. CRAMTON. If I can perfect this picture a little for myself, I would like to do so. I do not know whether it will help anybody else

or not.

In the first place, the authorization provides for certain regulatory legislation as a condition precedent.

I wish you would put in the record, or leave with the committee, the text of such regulatory legislation that has been enacted in any

State, or that is pending. I assume it either has been enacted or is actually pending in each of the States, and that it is uniform in form.

Mr. PURNELL. It is not a condition precedent. The word "discretion "

Mr. CRAMTON (interposing). I do not want to take too much time, but I want to make progress along a certain line.

The proviso says:

Provided, That in the discretion of the Secretary of Agriculture no expenditure shall be made hereunder until the States wherein the European corn borer exists shall have provided the necessary regulatory legislation and until a sum or sums adequate to State cooperation shall have been appropriated. subscribed, or contributed by States, counties, or local authorities or individuals or organizations.

Do I understand, Mr. Secretary, from the suggestion of Mr. Purnell, that you have exercised discretion and have held that this regulatory legislation and such contribution are not to be required?

Secretary JARDINE. No. All of the States have been asked to pass necessary legislation.

Mr. CRAMTON. I would like to know whether such legislation has been enacted in any State.

Doctor Woods. It is now before the legislatures. In the Senate hearings on H. R. 15649 is a copy of the recommendation sent to each legislature.

Mr. CRAMTON. How long is that?

Doctor Woods. About a page.

Mr. CRAMPTON. I wish you would put that in the record and state what States were asked to pass that legislation, and what action, if any, has been taken by any State.

(The matter above referred to is as follows:)

A PROPOSED BILL FOR CONSIDERATION OF STATE LEGISLATURES

A BILL Providing for the quarantine and control of the European corn borer; imposing certain powers and duties on the Department of Agriculture; providing penalties Be it enacted, etc., That in order to protect the agricultural and horticultural crops of the Commonwealth from the ravages of the European corn borer (Pyrausta nubilalis), accidentally established within the Commonwealth or State, and now seriously and destructively infesting a limited area in the State, the department of agriculture shall adopt and carry out such control measures as are deemed advisable, and may cooperate with the United States Department of Agriculture in the control of this pest.

SEC. 2. The department of agriculture is authorized to promulgate quarantines and quarantine restrictions covering areas within the State affected by said pest and areas within the State adjacent thereto, and may adopt, issue, and enforce rules and regulations supplemental to such quarantines for the control of this pest. Under such quarantine, the department of agriculture or its authorized agents may prohibit and prevent the movement within the State without inspection, or the shipment or transportation within the State of an agricultural or horticultural product, or any other material of any character whatsoever, capable of carrying this pest in any living state of its development; and, in the enforcement of such quarantine may intercept, stop, and detain for official inspection any person, car, vessel, boat, truck, automobile. aircraft, wagon, or other vehicles or carriers whether air, land, or water, or any container believed or known to be carrying the said insect in any living state of its development or any such material, in violation of said quarantines or of the rules or regulations issued supplemental thereto, and may seize. possess, and destroy any agricultural or horticultural product or other material of any character whatsoever, moved, shipped, or transported in violation of such quarantines or the rules and regulations supplemental thereto.

SEC. 3. For the purposes of this act, the department of agriculture, or its authorized agents, shall have free access within reasonable hours to any farm, field, orchard, garden, elevator, warehouse, building, cellar, freight or express office or car, freight yard, vehicle, vessel, boat, container, or any other place which, for probable cause, it may be necessary or desirable for such authorized agents to enter in carrying out the provisions of this act. It shall be unlawful to deny such access to such authorized agents or to hinder, thwart, or defeat such inspection or entrance by misrepresentation or concealment of facts or conditions, or otherwise.

SEC. 4. Any person, copartnership, association, or corporation violating any provision of a quarantine promulgated under the authority of this act, or of any rules and regulations issued supplemental thereto, shall be subject to a fine of not less than $25 nor more than $100 for each offense, to be collected by summary conviction before any mayor, magistrate, or justice of the peace, as like fines are now by law collected, and, in case of nonpayment of said fine, shall be imprisoned in the county jail for a period not exceeding five days: Provided, That any person so convicted shall have the right of appeal, as in other cases of summary conviction. The fines collected under this act shall be paid to the Department of Agriculture and by it paid into the State treasury for the use of the Commonwealth.

SEC. 5. Wherever treatment or destricution of any agricultural or horticultural product, whether in field, feed lot, place of assemblage or storage, or elsewhere, or whenever any special type of plowing or other farm operation is required under the provisions of any rule or regulation issued under the authority of this act, the owner or persons having charge of such material or land shall, upon due notice from the Department of Agriculture, or its authorized agents, and within the time limit provided, cause the destruction or treatment of such material or take the action so required, in the manner designated by such notice. In case the owner or person in charge of such material shall refuse or neglect to carry out such instructions within the time limit provided, the Department of Agriculture, or its authorized agents, may take the action so required and the expense thereof shall be assessed, collected, and enforced as taxes are collected and enforced, against the owner of the premises upon which such expense was incurred. The amount of such expense when collected shall be paid to the Department of Agficulture and by it paid into the State treasury: Provided, That such portion of the amount so assessed, collected, and enforced against the owner of such premises and paid into the State treasury, as shall represent the expenditures thereon by the United States, in carrying out the cooperative control measures hereby authorized, shall be paid to the United States.

Doctor WORK. The States of Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, New York, and Pennsylvania have been asked to pass this legislation and their official representatives have assured us that it will be done.

Mr. CRAMTON. As I understand it, when you get that regulatory legislation it is intended to give you certain police powers to enable you to go to the farmer and say that you will do certain things if he does not do them himself?

Secretary JARDINE. Yes, sir.

PROPOSED METHOD OF CLEAN UP CAMPAIGN

Mr. CRAMTON. I would like to get the picture cleared up for myself.

Say, for instance, you come into my county in the course of this campaign. Corn is handled differently in different communities. In some sections the stalks are left standing and the corn is picked off, so that if you go into that kind of a community you have a problem of the destruction of those cornstalks which ordinarily are not destroyed; I suppose sometimes they are burned, and sometimes only plowed under?

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