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Mr. Wood. Do you know whether, or not, in Canada, where the ravages seem to have been complete, they continue in the territory where they have discontinued raising corn?

Doctor LARRIMER. That is the reason we are fighting it this way. Where they have reduced the acreage, the moths that have been left each year concentrated on the corn that was left. They have reduced the acreage until now it is but 10 per cent of what it was before the borer got into this country.

Mr. Wood. Suppose they stopped raising corn altogether, do you suppose this insect could be eradicated ?

Doctor LARRIMER. No, sir; it will go ahead and reproduce on various plants, dahlias, and flowers of various kinds, barnyard grass, and grass that grows in swamps, in inaccessible places. It will go

, ahead and maintain itself after you have abandoned corn.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, what is the use in spending this money

on it?

Doctor LARRIMER. The expenditure of the money is to slow up the spread of the insect throughout the country, and to keep it out of the real Corn Belt as long as possible.

Mr. Wood. If this is purely a matter of demonstration, and if you are to spread this $10,000,000 over 2,500,000 acres, it would not be nearly as practical a demonstration of the possibility of eradication as it would be if you took the area of one-third or one-fourth of a county, and made your demonstration complete by completely destroying everything that this insect lives on.

Doctor LARRIMER. This proposed area is comparatively small when you consider how far these moths can fly. If you took the area of one county, two counties, or several counties, and cleaned it up, as we intend to clean up this area, we would not know to what cause to attribute an infestation that might occur again. You would not know whether it was due to moths flying in from the outside rather than from moths left in the area. Therefore, we have to have it large enough to guard against that, if we are to make the experiment successful.

Mr. Wood. You stated that this moth lays the egg which hatches out the corn borer, and that the corn borer begins to operate in a few days. Now, if you destroyed the insect entirely in a given area, so that not a single corn borer was left there, the next year's crop would not be molested by them until some moths came in and started it all over again.

Doctor LARRIMER. That is correct.

COST PER ACRE

The CHAIRMAX. You said the cost would be $2 per acre.
Mr. WORTHLEY. That would be the maximum.

The CHAIRMAN. Four times 2,500,000 are 10,000,000. You say you propose to cover 2,500,000 acres in this campaign, and if the cost is to be $10,000,000 that would be at the rate of $4 per acre, according to my calculation. You can not figure that out any other way.

Mr. WORTHLEY. $2 per acre would be the maximum.

The CHAIRMAX. You have $10,000,000 for 2,500,000 acres, and that would be at the rate of $4 per acre. Who fixed this sum of $10,000,000?

Secretary JARDINE. This committee that has been referred to.

The CHAIRMAN. How did they get at it? Upon what basis did they reach this estimate of $10,000,000?

Secretary JARDINE. They have been carrying on certain costaccounting operations, and this figure is based upon these costaccounting operations.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you a record of the cost-accounting operations they have been carrying on?

Secretary JARDINE. We have all of that here in this brief.

ADMINISTRATION COST

The CHAIRMAX. Has anybody any record to show how much of this money will be used for administration purposes?

Secretary JARDINE. Yes, sir; all of it is itemized in here.

The CHAIRMAN. We want that information in our record. Let our record show how much of it will be used for administration purposes.

Secretary JARDINE. I believe it would be a good idea to put in the record in its entirety this brief. It covers the whole business.

Mr. Wood. Give us some idea of what the administrative cost will be.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; answer that question right here.

Doctor LARRIMER. Less than $100,000 has been estimated for administration.

FIELD EQUIPMENT

Mr. WORTHLEY. The item for field equipment is $2,418,960.
Mr. Wood. What do you mean by field equipment?

Mr. WORTHLEY. That is the cost of the apparatus and the operation of it.

Mr. Wood. What sort of apparatus do you refer to? Mr. WORTHLEY. Stubble pulverizers, plows, burners, tractors, etc. That is the machinery to be furnished for that area that we are going to clean up. We expect that we will have to clean up what the farmer does not do. Much of this machinery would be used on the farms immediately, as soon as we can possibly get it. That will be used to help the farmers out in many cases where they have not the proper machinery for the work.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean to say that you will give them this machinery?

Mr. WORTHLEY. No, sir. Where they are paid for extra work, that will be deducted.

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Doctor MARLATT. You have before you a picture of what we will do, and, if I may be permitted, I would like to try to give you just the job, or the relationship of the farmer to the Federal aid. Now, we have this area of 2,500,000 acres

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Does that work in with the question I asked just a moment ago about the cost of administration, or the overhead?

Doctor MARLATT. Yes, sir; it goes right into the overhead machinery. It is based on this situation: We have this area, but we are not going to do the farmer's work in that area at all.

We expect to have every individual farmer in this area to do the full work that he normally would do in taking care of his farm. They are good farmers in this area, the best in the United States. They are excellent farmers, and they will do their own work. They are prepared to do the full year's work that they would normally do every year.

The Secretary made it clear that the purpose here is to pay these people for over and above or in excess of the work that they normally do to keep their farms in shape. These operations that we are talking about here are over and above and in excess of the work normally required, and it will require special machinery. This is over and above whąt the farmer normally does in destroying stubble. Certainly this cleaning of the fields contemplated here is not necessary in ordinary farming operations. He does not have to do all of these things to enable him to get the succeeling crop. This plan will require him to plow all of those stalks under, in a certain manner, with a special type of plow, so as to get the stalks completely covered. It also requires him to do certain cleaning in his feed lots which he normally does not do at all. This is all above and in addition to what he normally does in his regular farming operations. It requires him to eliminate these cornstalks on his farm, whether they are a nuisance on the farm or not. It is the purpose to pay for this overwork, and it is for the same reason that we will have to supply this special machinery in some cases. We will have to put a lot of money in special machinery, and we will have to put a lot of money into special apparatus. We will also have to supervise the burning. When the farmer has done his normal work, and does this excess work, the excess work will be looked upon as work done in the employment of the Government, and he is paid for it. In a sense, it is a reimbursement. It is a reimbursement of the cost of that excess work.

SUPERVISION OF WORK

The CHAIRMAX. Then, the Government will be the supervising agency for all farm work after this.

Doctor MARLATT. The district will be operated substantially on a plan which means they will have supervisors.

The CHAIRMAN. Who will supervise it?

Doctor MARLATT. Arrangements will be made with the county demonstration agent in each county. We are working in cooperation with existing Federal institutions that have been provided by Congress to aid the farmers. We are working in cooperation with them. The farmers will be advised as to what is necessary to be done, and their work will be inspected to see that it has been done properly. It will be inspected to see if they have done this excess work them. selves. We hope that 80 per cent of it will be done by them. As I have said, they will be paid, not for the work they would normally do, but for the excess work. If they do not do it, then the State will have to step in and do it in cooperation with the Federal Department of Agriculture.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean to say that from now on the Department of Agriculture is going to supervise every farmer in the United States and tell him how to plow his land?

Doctor MARLATT. In this particular area

The CHAIRJAN (interposing.) If that is going to be done in any area, or if you start with that, it will not be confined to any particular area.

Doctor MARLATT. The purpose of all this business is to see if the corn borer can be so reduced in population over this 250-mile area, or 100-mile area, that there will be no spread of this insect next year or the next two or three years. This district committee represents brainy men engaged in farming operations, university men, State heads of agriculture departments, etc., and they believe that such a clean-up as now proposed should be undertaken, with the Federal Government and the States paying for the excess work. They believe that this will stop the borer, or will materially check its spread. There is no question about the fact that they can kill from 80 to 90 per cent of the larvæ.

APPROPRIATION FOR ONE YEAR ONLY

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you spent $10,000,000 on this work this year, how much would you want to spend next year?

Doctor MARLATT. We are not figuring on anything more than this. This is for a demonstration this year.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this the end of it?

Doctor MARLATT. If it fails, this is the end of it. If it succeeds, then it is up to Congress to say whether we shall go ahead. If it is demonstrated that this will work, then it will be a question for Congress to determine as to whether it will go ahead with it, or whether it is necessary,

Secretary JARDINE. I have tried to make it clear in all the conferences that I have had that this is a demonstration for one year to show the farmers that 90 per cent of it can be controlled.

COMMENCEMENT OF DEMONSTRATION WORK

Mr. Wood. When would you commence the demonstration if this appropriation were granted?

Secretary JARDINE. We should be at work before planting time. The preparations should be started right away.

Mr. Wood. Corn matures all over this country in the fall, about frost time.

Secretary JARDINE. I believe they figure on having a 60-day program.

Mr. Wood. When would that 60-day program commence?

Mr. WORTHLEY. We would start as soon as we possibly could, or as soon as we had any money to start with, to taking care of the stubble land where they want to plant small grain. We would ask the farmers to clean up on or before May 1. After the 1st of May, what the farmer has not cleaned up, it is the proposition that the Government shall clean it up.

Mr. Wood. Most corn is planted by the 1st of May.

Secretary JARDINE. First of all, we must have an educational program, and that ties up with the inspection forces, county agents, State organizations, etc. They will assign men to form contracts with the people we have there. We must carry on that educational program.

NUMBER OF MEN REQUIRED FOR DEMONSTRATION

WORK

Mr. Wood. How many men would you have to employ to make this demonstration?

Secretary JARDINE. We have got to strike hard at first, and it will take a big organization. It will take a lot of machines and a lot of tractors.

Mr. Wood. How many men will be required?

Mr. WORTHLEY. I think the organization is about 7,500 men in the entire area.

Secretary JARDINE. Think of this: There are 2,500,000 acres that must be covered. They will have to get every cornstalk. We will have to clean up this area as thoroughly as you wanted to have that smaller area cleaned up. That is why it will require $10,000,000. We must have an organization to go into all these counties. If we do it at all, we should do it so thoroughly that people can not say hereafter that we did not have enough money and did not do it right.

DETAIL OF EXPENDITURES

Mr. Woop. I wish you would give us that set-up, so we will know how you propose to spend this $10,000,000.

Secretary JARDINE. I think you should have this complete statement in your record.

Mr. Wood. I would like to get some idea of it while you are here. If we simply have it placed in the record, we will not have a chance to ask you any questions about it.

The CHAIRMAN. I asked awhile ago about how much of this money would be used for administration purposes, and one of you answered that it would be about $100,000.

Mr. LARRIMER. It will be less than that.

The CHAIRMAN. How much of it would be used for the employment of people?

Mr. WORTHLEY. For laborers, supervisory forces, etc., the estimate is $1,559,369.

The CHAIRMAN. How much of it would be used in making payments to farmers?

Mr. WORTHLEY. $4,220.000.

The CHAIRMAN. What would you pay that amount to the farmers for?

Mr. WORTHLEY. For the extra work they will do.
Secretary JARDINE. There is nothing for any losses sustained.

The CHAIRMAN. After the 1st of May anything that is left undone you will do ?

Secretary JARDINE. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAX. How long will that take?

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