HON. MR. MACPHERSON - That was not done by the Government. course if one sees a state of things existing press which took a different view, were which is injurious to the country, to shut his right. Then the Liberal Press and the eyes to it, and say nothing about it. I think Liberal Party spoke of excessive railway the duty of a true patriot is to make the rates. It was contended on the other side evil known, so that it may be remedied. that they were not excessive; but I would Now, I think that the action, if it was the ask the hon. gentleman if it is not a fact action of the Grit Press-which had the that within the last few weeks they were effect which has already been produced, reduced 25 per cent. If they were modwas an action which every patriotic soul, erate before that, why was it necessary to including that of the hon. gentleman reduce them? from Niagara-although I believe he is not a Canadian-should rejoice in. In the first place, the land regulations which that hon. gentleman and some hon. gentlemen in this House a year ago thought HON. MR. POWER-The Government were perfect, have been discovered since are supposed to have control of the rates to be imperfect. and those land regula- of the Canadian Pacific Railway Co.; and tions have been remedied in the direction one of the complaints of the Liberal press suggested by the Opposition and the Op- was that the rates charged by the Composition Press a year ago and earlier; and pany were exhorbitant. That statement that shows there was some foundation for was denied by hon. gentlemen and their the complaints that were made. If the friends; and now we have the Company department under the care of my hon. practically acknowledging that the charge friend from Saugeen, has found it neces- was well founded. Then the hon. gentlesary to the interests of the North-West to man said that all the complaints with regard alter those regulations which we were to the North-West came from the Liberal told last year were perfect, it shows that party, and from the Liberal press. Is the hon. the regulations were not perfect when gentleman not aware that within the last few they were adopted. days we have had the Premier of Manitoba, accompanied by delegates from the farmers of Manitoba, irrespective of party, down here to ask for a modification of the HON. MR. MACPHERSON-There is no change in the regulations. HON. MR. POWER-The hon. gentleman cannot mislead the House by statement of that sort, for I a HON. MR. MACPHERSON-I never tried to mislead the House whatever the hon. gentleman may do. I tell him that there has been no change in the regulations that relate to settlement. There were certain reserves which the hon. gentleman may be alluding to, that have been opened to the public, but that is not a change in the regulations. a existing state of things? Is Mr. Norquay member of the party which the hon. gentleman denounces? I should say not. The fact I take to be this, that the hon. gentleman, having drifted away from what he had begun to talk about, rather lost his bearings, and made a number of statements at random which he is not able, and no one is able, to substantiate. Now suppose that the Liberal press and the Liberal party had gone a long way in the direction of speaking of the exodus from Canada into Dakota, and other places in the Republic, they would have the very best precedent and example to plead, because, if not the hon. gentleman himself, certainly a number of his friends in both Houses of Parliament in 1878, and about that time, informed the world at large that there was a tremendous exodus from Canada. If that was right and proper then, surely it cannot be so very wrong now. HON. MR. POWER-That is a change. One of the most important regulations was that a large portion of the NorthWest was reserved from settlement-the mile belt and the country south of the railway-and we were told at the time that it was a piece of magnificent statesmanship to do that. The hon. gentleman and his colleagues have since become convinced that they were mistaken, and As to the matter to which the hon. gen. that the Liberal Party and the Liberal tleman has called attention, I quite concur Moose Jaw 1,000; Medicine Hat 500; with him, as I think every hon. gentleman HON. MR. TURNER-I beg the hon. here does, that if a sufficient population gentleman's pardon, Towns and villages has got into the Norh-West to entitle it to have sprung up along the railway as if by representation in the House of Commons, magic. Regina with a population of 1,000; and in this Chamber the sooner such representation is granted the better. It cannot be denied that there is dissatisfaction in that country; and if that dissatisfac- Of course it is impossible to get reliable tion can find a constitutional and proper statistics, but I have taken some little mouthpiece here at Ottawa, it is not likely trouble to get a fair estimate of to break out in an unconstitutional and about what the population of those dangerous form in the North-West. I stations amount to. As near as I quite recognize that an administration can get at it there cannot be less than governing a country as remote and exten- 3,200 in all for those, so that I would say sive as that, and under conditions that are that 4,000 is the number of the inhabitnew to most of us in the eastern Provinces, ants along the railway itself. Then we have an exceedingly difficult task to per- come to the beautiful valley of the Qu'form, and that it is very desirable that Appelle. The district there had a voters' they should be assisted in that difficult list of 2,000, and besides that almost task by the advice of persons who come all over the entire Territory there are from the country in question, and who thriving little settlements springing up naturally are better able, very often, to suggest the remedies for evils that exist there than persons living at a distance, even though those persons should occasionally visit the North-West. everywhere. When you come to the territory of Saskatchewan we find that Prince Albert and district have a population of probably 1,200. Battleford has a population of 150, and there are small settlements at La Corne, and Duck Lake and HON. MR. TURNER-I heartily ap- Carrot River district is extensively settled. prove of the motion of my hon. friend Prince Albert itself occupies a very imfrom Niagara, and in supporting it I wish portant position. It appears to me that to make a few remarks, as I happen to ultimately it will be the distributing point know a little about that country. Under for a large portion of the Saskatchewan ordinary circumstances population is, no district. It is the headquarters of the doubt, a reasonable basis for representa- Episcopal Bishopric and college, and other tion, but there has been, and will be, christian denominations are represented occasions when other considerations there by their churches. The population must be taken into account in granting is a most intelligent one. In fact the first representation to the great North-West. man I met in Prince Albert was a gentleBut a little over two years ago in cross-man who was for a long time a member of ing the western boundary of Manitoba, the House of Commons. With regard to and passing into Assiniboia, the traveller the Saskatchewan itself, I think it is a very entered a territory about as lonely as when beautiful river, and the country through traversed by the author of "The Great which it flows is peculiarly adapted for a Lone Land," where to-day are to be found class of the smaller settlers, and the further numerous thriving towns, villages and west you go the greater are the advantages settlements. The four territories are the country offers to such settlers. Assiniboia, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and I was up the Saskatchewan for 600 miles, Athabasca. Did I understand my hon. between Prince Albert and Edmonton, friend to say that in Assiniboia there was practically a population of 5,000 only? HON. MR. PLUMB-No, I said a great deal more. I said that it was stated by the officer who has charge of the land office at Regina that the population, judging from the sales of land, had probably reached 25,000. and I am safe in saying that there is not a mile of land in that entire distance that is not suitable for some agricultural purpose, for it has the advantage of plenty of water, and from Edmonton plenty of coal, besides timber for building purposes. With regard to Alberta we have along the line of the Canadian Pacific Railway Calgarry, with a population of 800; Silver City, 600; Padmore, 200; Morleyville, sions to the North-West Territories. 150; Baker Creek, 50-a total population For a long time I considered that the two of between 1,800 and 2,000. Then representatives from Manitoba were more we have Edmonton and district interested in this question than any other including St. Albert-of about 1,500. hon. gentleman, and that we were speMy experience of the North-West has been cially charged with the interests of the that the further you go west the more you North-West Territories. However, I perfind the country improve. At Edmonton ceive from day to day with the greatest there is coal, splendid water, and plenty satisfaction that we are not the only memof timber for ordinary purposes. The bers of Parliament who are taking an accountry in these territories is settled almost tive interest in the fate and future of our entirely by people from the older western country. We may say that our provinces. You can scarcely go in- prairies have been invaded by people to a place without meeting some one from the eastern provinces, and that the you know, or some one who knows you. cause of the North-West Territories is the I found when I was there grievances exist- cause of a great number of members in ed amongst the people, but many of those this hon. House as well as of those in the grievances when talked over were soon other Chamber. There is no doubt that explained away. People who are isolated in the early future the western portion of from the rest of the world are apt to ex- this Dominion, is the one that will yield aggerate their grievances, seeing only one the largest return for the present outlay. side of the case, and that is one reason A certain amount of dissatisfaction exists why I think it is exceedingly desirable there at present, but I do not anticipate that there should be representation of that it will have any serious result; at the some kind given to the territories, as sug- same time we must all see that it is in the gested by Mr. Plumb, either by delegates interest of the Government to make some or representatives, because these repre- concessions to the wishes of the people sentatives would act as a medium of com- that the North-West Territories shall be munication between the people up there represented in Parliament. and the Government., and I feel perfectly satisfied that the great bulk of the grievances would soon disappear when the people were brought in contact with the Government. I quite agree with the hon. gentleman from Niagara that we have in the North-West a wonderful country, and no possible effort should be spared on the part of the Government and of the Parliament to assist in settling up that part of the Dominion, and if we succeed in doing so, I have no doubt the result will be to the great advantage of Canada. When Manitoba entered the Confederation in 1871 the Constitution provided that that Province should have a representation of two members in the Senate, and three in the House of Commons. At that time the population was about 12,000. Since then the boundaries of the Province have been enlarged, and at the same time the representation in both Houses has been increased. Now that the NorthWest has a population of over 60,000 souls, all interested in the progress and welfare of the Dominion, there is no reason why they should not be represented in HON. MR. GIRARD-I think that Parliament. We have proof that they are something is due to the hon. member for entitled to representation in the fact that Niagara for having brought this question during the present Session we have seen before the attention of the Senate. With delegations coming down to Ottawa from his great information, his intelligent and there at their own expense to defend their forcible language he has laid the matter interests. We meet them every day in so clearly before the House that it must the public offices, and in the corridors of be of great advantage to the North-West. Parliament and we must see that it is now It seems to me that his remarks must time that they should be admitted to the have impressed the members of the Gov- floor of the House. Let them have repreernment who sit so near him with the im- sentation; give the people a chance to portance of acting promptly upon his plead their own cause on the floors of suggestions that it must necessarily Parliament. That is their right, they have result in some important conces-made sacrifices to obtain that right, and it ment. should not be denied to them. It was diary magistrates were to be members exnot my intention to make any remarks on officio. In accordance with this Act the this subject, but it seems to me that it is Lieutenant-Governor of Manitoba ceased one of such vast importance, one on which to be Lieutenant-Governor of the Northdepends so largely the welfare, happiness West Territories, and the North-West and contentment of the people that it Council, as constituted under Mr. Morris, would not have been excusable on my ceased to hold office. In 1876, on the part to have allowed this question to be 7th October, the Hon. David Laird was disposed of while I remained silent and appointed Lieutenant-Governor, as sucindifferent. I heartily concur in the re- cessor to the Hon. Mr. Morris, and on the marks of the hon. gentleman from Niagara, same day Mr. Matthew Ryan, and Lieuand I feel that he has earned the gratitude tenant-Colonel Richardson were appointed of the people of the North-West by bring- stipendiary magistrates, and became ex ing this matter before the notice of Parlia- officio members of the Council. Lieutenant-Colonel McLeod, Commissioner of the North-West Mounted Police, was also MR. MACPHERSON - The appointed a member of the Executive debate has taken a somewhat wider Council, and during the succeeding year range than I anticipated from the notice Mr. Pascal Breland was added to it. He that was given, but I shall confine my re- had previously served in 1872 in a similar marks very much to the subject of that capacity. Under the Act of 1875 it was notice. I listened with very great interest, provided that whenever any district or as I am sure every member of this House portion of the North-West Territory, not did, to the able speech delivered by my exceeding an area of 1,000 square miles, hon. friend from Niagara. He entered contained a population of not less than into a review of the history of the introduction of representative institutions into Ontario, which is a subject of much interest to the members of this House who reside in that province, and I am sure it is not confined to them alone, but is also interesting to every member who occupies a seat in this Chamber. HON. 1,000 inhabitants of adult age, the Lieutenant-Governor should by proclamation erect such district or portion into an electoral district, and that such electoral district might thenceforth be entitled to elect a member of the Council. That has been done, to some extent. So soon as the Lieutenant-Governor is satisfied The subject which the hon. gentleman that any electoral district contains not less has brought before the House, with res- than 2,000 inhabitants, the district would pect to the North-West Territories, is an thenceforth be entitled to elect a second exceedingly important as well as an inter-member to the Council. The Act proesting one, and it is not surprising that vided further that when the number of people accustomed to elective institutions elected members should reach 21, the should be anxious to have as full an en- Council should cease to be a Council, and joyment of them as possible. I am able become a Legislative Assembly, so that you to show to the House that the Govern- will see that preparation was made to give ment has not been remiss in granting local the people local representative institutions; elective institutions to the North-West representative in the first instance to a Territories. On the 28th November, 1872, limited extent, the Council being at first the Government appointed an Executive composed of partly elected members, and Council for the North-West Territories, partly of nominated members, and partly and my hon. friend who has just address of ex-officio members, but the whole ed the House was one of the mem- scheme carefully prepared to be extended bers of that Council. In 1875 under into full local electoral institutions. an Act passed that year the appointment The Act to which I have referred also was made by the Governor-General by provided that the Council might create warrant under his Privy Seal, of a Council municipal institutions with power to levy to aid the Lieutenant-Governor in the taxes for local purposes, and a certain administration of the North West Terri- number have already been created as tories, such Council consisting of five mentioned by the hon. gentleman from persons, and of which number the stipen- Niagara, of which Regina is one. We had the Mayor of that Corporation down here a few days ago; I am not sure but he is still here. At the present time the Council consists of the Lieutenant Governor, three ex-officio members, three members appointed by the Dominion Government, and six members elected by the people. Those elected by the people are for Broadview, Edmonton, Qu'Appelle, Regina, and Moose Jaw. Capital, forgotten by the legislators who sit in this Parliament, and it will, I am sure, impart a feeling of confidence to them, and increase the assurance which they feel that their interests, and their feelings will be earnestly considered by the Government and also by Parliament. That is all that I feel called upon to say with respect to the enquiry of the hon. gentleman. I did not contemplate saying I feel the very great importance of the anything upon any other subject, but the question which the hon. gentleman has hon. gentleman from Halifax (Mr. Power) put to the Government, and the Govern- in reply, it is true, to an allusion made by mentare also impressed with its importance, my hon. friend from Niagara, has brought for I can assure the House that every mem-up a very important subject, and one bearber of the Administration is anxious that ing very much on the interests of the everything should be done to promote the North-West. It is altogether beyond quesprosperity, happiness and contentment of the people in that country. The situation of the North-West is somewhat different from that of the Territories of the United States. It would be something entirely new under the British Constitution to have delegates from our Territories sitting in a representative body, and not having the right to vote, and if representatives should be admitted from the Territory to the House of Commons, I should hope that they would be endowed with the full attributes of representatives of the people, and have the right to vote as well as to speak in Parliament. tion that the press of the party of which the hon. gentleman is an important member, has seen fit to decry the country in a most unfortunate way. I shall never complain of any attack that is made by the opposition press upon the Government, which is simply in the nature of a political attack, because if the policy of the Government is not one that commends itself to the people, and if they cannot survive even misrepresentation, I am quite willing that we should make way for others; but the press which has been alluded to is not content with attacking the Government or individual members of the Cabinet, but it The area of that country, as the hon. gen- decries the country in a way which, I tleman has said, is enormous and the have no hesitation in saying, is unpatripopulation is sparse and very much scatter- otic beyond anything I have ever known ed. The people cannot yet have any to emanate from the press of any very great common interests. They are country in the world. In the United all working very much for themselves: States, where partisanship is carried as far communities are being formed, as a matter as it can be, no portion of the press attacks of course, and are rapidly growing, and it the country. It is so different with our would be the duty of the Government to own press that it makes one ask why it is increase the representative provisions as so, and, I confess, I cannot find a satisfacthe population increases. The Government tory answer. The effect of those attacks, does not see its way to passing an act this if they were confined to the country, would session, because there should, in the first be comparatively unimportant; but they place, be an inquiry, which there is not are so much material furnished to our time to make now, but it will be taken in- rivals for use abroad in the fields of emito careful consideration during the gration which are common to both countries, and the evil they are doing is perfectly incalculable. I am surprised that the hon. gentleman should question the fact that portions of the United States territories and states have been held up by the Liberal or Grit press as superior to our own North-West Territories. The hon. gentleman knows that the very leader of the Opposition in another place saw fit to recess. I am sure it will be gratifying to the people of the North-West Territories to have had their interests and institutions submitted to the House so ably as they were by my hon. friend from Niagara, and discussed in this House so intelligently as they have been. It will show them that they are not, in their remoteness from the |