do not properly function in times when there are no industrial disputes going on, due to the fact that one side or the other has control of the officials?

Mr. HENDRICKS. That has been the charge, yes,sir; but I don't know whether it is true or not.

Chairman WALSH. You have observed the facts with relation to the bringing of personal-injury suits in these counties, have you?

Mr. HENDRICKS. Yes, sir; pretty closely.

Chairman WALSH. The district clerk read to us here the other day and also stated in that connection that there had been no recoveries against mining companies in Huerfano County for 23 years. Is that a fact that is generally

known?

Mr. HENDRICKS. That is a fact generally talked of to be true.
Chairman WALSH. Is it commented upon?

Mr. HENDRICKS. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. Do the people generally believe that the courts are fair? Mr. HENDRICKS. I will state this, Mr. Walsh: The district judge that we had prior to the present judge was on the district bench of the third judicial district for over six years.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. State or Federal?

Mr. HENDRICKS. State; and there never was a personal-injury suit went to the jury that I am aware of. I think I am absolutely correct in this as long as he was on the bench. I have had some personal experiences of my own. I could never get one to the jury, and I don't think any other lawyer ever succeeded.

Chairman WALSH. Commissioner Lennon asks, did the court take them out of the hands of the jury by peremptory instruction?

Mr. HENDRICKS. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. What state of mind, if you observed, has that produced among the people?

Mr. HENDRICKs. They just thought that it was useless to bring any suits of this character. Some of the attorneys would bring their suits in Denver or Pueblo in order to get away from those two counties wherever possible, if they could get service, in order to get them into court. That class of cases-I used to try a great many of them myself-that class of cases has practically vanished from the court dockets of those two counties, because the people think it is useless to bring them.

Commissioner GARRETSON. In the face of the conditions you have stated, Mr. Hendricks, do you subscribe to the statement that was made before this commission that there was no industrial unrest in that territory?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I do not. I think there is much unrest and has been for a long time.

Commissioner GARRETSON. Largely traceable to the very methods that you

describe?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I think so; that is my opinion, sir.

Commissioner GARRETSON. In regard to men being held incommunicado. For how long a period were men held incommunicado during the period of military rule?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I understand all the time they were in jail. That has been testified to here as being from 40 to 53 days.

Commissioner GARRETSON. You are familiar with the Mexican law in regard to holding men incommunicado for a period?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I think it is two days.

Commissioner GARRETSON. Seventy-two hours.
Mr. HENDRICKS. Seventy-two hours; yes, sir.

Commissioner GARRETSON. Have you knowledge as to whether the State Department of this Government has protested time after time against the detention of American citizens for over that period?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I have a general knowledge through the public press, is all on the subject.

Commissioner GARRETSON. Is it lawful to hold a man in that manner under regular civil process here?

Mr. HENDRICKS. Well, if he is held incommunicado?

Commissioner GARRETSON. Yes.

Mr. HENDRICKS. I don't think so, although it is sometimes done, frequently done. I think a man put in jail has a right to counsel within a reasonable time and should be able to see his attorney if he wants one.

Commissioner GARRETSON. In these interpretations between the judge and the jury and between the witnesses and the jury has the accused a voice in the selection of the interpreter?

Mr. HENDRICKS. No, sir; the court appoints the interpreter the same as he does any other officer.

Commissioner GARRETSON. From your own experience, does it partake of the farcical to surround a jury with legal restrictions for a fair trial and then convey all the information to the jury through a channel that is not equally guarded?

Mr. HENDRICKS. It is a very cumbersome mode. In some cases we have two interpreters, one Italian and one Mexican, or probably a Jap or a Chinaman or a Montenegrin, and so it goes through two or three interpreters before it gets to the jury, and when it does get to the jury I don't think the jury knows what is said or anybody else.

Commissioner GARRETSON. Nor the accused does not know whether the testimony has been properly presented or not?

Mr. HENDRICKS. No, sir; I don't think so. It is very hard to get a translation made correctly, to get ideas conveyed through an interpreter from one language to another so as to get the thing intelligible.

Commissioner GARRETSON. Nor to make allowances for variations in vernac

ular?

Mr. HENDRICKS. Yes.

Commissioner GARRETSON. When you were allowed to appear before the military commission, or whatever it was, the inquiry

Mr. HENDRICKS. The military commission,

Commissioner GARRETSON (continuing). And examine witnesses with reference to the crime charged against people they had in jail, were you, as district attorney-was it made apparent to you, you were allowed there as a right, or were you allowed there through courtesy?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I think it was through courtesy.

Commissioner GARRETSON. You considered it so?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I would consider it so.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Just one question. Who is the final judge as to whether the military in the time of labor disturbances is or is not supreme in Colorado?

Mr. HENDRICKS. The supreme court, I should say.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Has the supreme court rendered any decision on that point?

Mr. HENDRICKS. They have rendered a decision called "In re Moyer case,” which the military authorities seem to think gives them absolute right in the premises to do anything they want to with reference to detaining people. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Are you familiar with that decision?

Mr. HENDRICKS. It has been a long time since I read it.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Can you give a reference to it?

Mr. HENDRICKS. Thirty-fifth Colorado Supreme Court Reports.

Chairman WALSH. We have it together with the dissenting opinion, and a very concise brief on the question.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. As I understand it, Mr. Hendricks, the decision of the supreme court, until it is reversed, is the law of the land?

Mr. HENDRICKS. It is supposed to be the law of the State; yes, sir; it is the law of the State.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Under those circumstances that is the law, then, in Colorado?

Mr. HENDRICKS. Yes, sir; providing the facts of this strike situation bring it within the facts of that case, which is disputed. That is where the trouble has been in the case, whether there was a proclamation issued and signed by the governor declaring martial law in this case or there was not.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Your decision, then, is that martial law had not been legally declared by Gov. Ammons?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I am saying, Mr. Weinstock, that is the position of the one side, while the other side claims it was. I haven't taken any position on it, myself.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. If the governor of the State had declared martial law, there certainly must be evidence of it, would that not be the fact? Mr. HENDRICKS. Yes.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. You say you have seen no evidence of the governor having declared martial law?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I didn't say that I had seen no evidence.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Then I misunderstood you. What is your position in the matter?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I say I haven't taken any position on that proposition, because it didn't concern me. But I say in this matter, when there was a habeas corpus proceeding where they had people in jail in Trinidad, Mr. Hawkins, who represented the mine workers' union, pleaded for a writ of habeas corpus, that these men were in there, and Maj. Boughton, who represented the military authorities, came in to defend and claimed it did not make any difference whether they were guilty or innocent, that they had a right to hold them and that therefore a writ of habeas corpus wouldn't be prevailing in this State under the Moyer decision.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. There was a clean-cut issue between you, representing the civil authorities

Mr. HENDRICKS. I didn't represent anybody.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK (Continuing). And Maj. Boughton, representing the military?

Mr. HENDRICKS I didn't represent anybody in the case. I wasn't in the

case.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. But I understood you

Mr. HENDRICKS. Mr. Hawkins, I say, represented the mine workers and handled that side of the case.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. I understood you to say a little while ago that you withdrew from the case because Maj. Boughton objected. Didn't you testify to that effect within the last 15 or 20 minutes?

Mr. HENDRICKS. A coroner's jury. That was a coroner's inquest held at Ludlow, because he objected to the civil authorities examining military officers, claiming that we had no right to do it.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. This commission is interested, I think, in knowing at this time whether or not the State of Colorado, or at least the strike zone, was or was not legally under martial law.

Mr. HENDRICKS. That is a question that is disputed by the parties engaged in this controversy and has never been settled.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. How can that be determined to the satisfaction of this commission?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I think you will have to determine that yourself, or the supreme court of the State. I don't think anybody knows whether martial law was declared or not. I don't. I wired the governor two or three times, I have copies of telegrams asking plainly and explicitly to please to state to me, that I desired to know in my official capacity whether or not he had declared martial law in Colorado, and got back: "See Gen. Chase," on two different occasions.

(Mr. Hendricks later submitted copies of telegrams, military orders, and letters, which appear as "Hendricks exhibit.")

Chairman WALSH. We must have perfect order, ladies and gentlemen. Please preserve order.

Commissioner LENNON. In the case you spoke of, of the trial of five men, were there any deputy sheriffs acting as jurors in that case?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I don't know whether there was or not, sir.

Commissioner LENNON. Any mine guards?

Mr. HENDRICKS. Not to my knowledge, I did not intend to leave any on. Commissioner LENNON. What is the situation in your district, particularly in Las Animas and Huerfano Counties, as to the constitutional right to exercise free speech and a free press—I do not mean while this fracas has been going on, but in the years gone by when there was no industrial conflict?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I think that has been allowed, sir. People could speak and write what they pleased without any interference; that is, in Trinidad. I do not know about those camps. I do not go to them; very rarely ever go to those camps.

Commissioner LENNON. What is known as union agitators-were they permitted to speek freely in Trinidad at any time they might come there?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I never heard of one speaking on the streets, except Mother Jones. I believe she spoke there. I never heard her, though.

Commissioner LENNON. Was she prevented from speaking more than one

time?

Mr. HENDRICKS. I do not know that she ever was.
Chairman WALSH. That is all. You may be excused.

(At 4.35 p. m., Friday, December 11, the commission adjourned until tomorrow, Saturday, December 12, 1914, at 10 o'clock a. m.)

DENVER, COLO., Saturday, December 12, 1914-10 a. m. Present: Chairman Walsh, Commissioners Ballard, O'Connell, Lennon, Garretson, Weinstock, and Harriman.

Chairman WALSH. The commission will please be in order.

It is due to the witnesses and the others who have been kept waiting this morning for us to say that the commission was compelled to hold an executive session, which has lasted longer than expected.

Robert Young.

TESTIMONY OF MR. ROBERT YOUNG.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Give your name to the reporter.
Mr. YOUNG. Robert Young.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. And you reside where?

Mr. YOUNG. Walsenburg, Colo.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Walsenburg?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes, sir.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. What is your business?

Mr. YOUNG. Miner.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Miner?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes, sir.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. For what company are you now working?
Mr. YOUNG. I haven't worked none for any for two years.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. What are you doing now?

Mr. YOUNG. I ain't doing anything.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. What company did you last work for?
Mr. YOUNG. C. F. & I. Co.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. At what mine?

Mr. YOUNG. Walsen.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Were you a pit boss then?

Mr. YOUNG. No, sir.

Commissioner O'CONNELL, Were you in a position of authority at all?

Mr. YOUNG. Not under the C. F. & I.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Just pitch your voice a little higher. What other companies have you worked for?

Mr. YOUNG. I worked for the Victor-American and the Cedar Hill Coal & Coke Co.; I held positions under both of those companies.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. You have held positions under both of them?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes; mine foreman.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Night foreman?

Mr. YOUNG. Mine foreman.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Mine foreman?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes, sir. I owned a third lease in the Canyon Coal Co.; I superintended for the Black Canyon Fuel Co.; I leased from the Union Coal & Coke Co.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. How long have you lived in Colorado?

Mr. YOUNG. I came here in 1897.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. From where?

Mr. YOUNG. Ohio.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Did you work as a miner in Ohio?

Mr. YOUNG. As a mine foreman.

Commissioner O'CONNELL, What class of workers are employed around the mines besides the miners?

Mr. YOUNG. Well, do you mean inside of the mine?

Commissioner O'CONNELL. All around; what other skilled workmen are employed?

Mr. YOUNG. Track layers, timbermen, drivers, machine runners, pumpers, and a few utility men.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Who looks after the matter of securing the material for the men who put in the timbers and does that safety work around the mine?

Mr. YOUNG. As a rule, the mine foreman would during my time. Commissioner O'CONNELL. Did you experience any difficulty in securing proper material to make the mine safe?

Mr. YOUNG. Sometimes I did when I was a miner.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Just explain to the commission.

Mr. YOUNG. Well, in regard to getting the props of proper length, ties for laying the track with, and rails; it was sometimes very hard to get them the proper lengths, that is, the mine props, and sometimes very hard to get the rails to lay the tracks handily, and that caused lots of dissatisfaction sometimes. Commissioner O'CONNELL. Did accidents occur because of not having an opportunity, or not getting material to put in props of the proper length?

Mr. YOUNG. Well, I would lay it principally to them conditions that existed. I might state right here that nearly all my experience was-that in all my mine experience as a mine foreman, both in the State of Ohio and the State of Colorado, I never had a man crippled in a mine or killed. I had two or three men get killed with runaway trips, but not with rock.

Commissioner O'CONNELL, Are you a member of a union?

Mr. YOUNG. I am not.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Were you ever a member of the Mine Workers'

Union?

Mr. YOUNG. I was; yes, sir.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. How long ago?

Mr. YOUNG. Seventeen years ago. I have never been a member of a union in Colorado.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Have you had any dealings with organized labor, as a mine foreman?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes, sir; in Ohio, I had; it was all unionized labor there.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Do you know anything about whether the men were prevented or stopped in any way from joining the union here in Colorado? Mr. YOUNG. The unions?

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Yes; was there anything done to prevent a man from joining the union if he wanted to?

Mr. YOUNG. Why, my friend, if he was thought to be a union man, if he lit in any of the Colorado camps, it was good-by for that union man. He would have to move; they would not leave him light.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. What methods were adopted to keep track of the union men that came into the camp, as to whether they were or were not members of the union?

Mr. YOUNG. You take these big camps and there are always a lot of sleuths. Commissioner O'CONNELL. That is, you mean detectives?

Mr. YOUNG. Evidence men, or whatever you call them, and if a stranger goes in there they get after him to find his business right away. I can cite you to one instance that happened to myself at the Walsen camp.

I had worked at the Robinson mine about a year, and I quit, and I am very well acquainted there. I had not been around the camp for about probably a month when a friend of mine and I, and I had a son, an electrician up there at that time. I was very well acquainted with the superintendent and the officers up there, and as I went up there, I was going over toward the powerhouse, and I seen a fellow coming from the office, and I said to this friend of mine, Turner, "Here is a fellow coming over to find out who we are." He was a stranger there, but a nice fellow, and he came over there and talked to us and asked us if we were acquainted there, and I kind of joshed him at first, and I said, "Yes." He said, “Do you work here?” “No, sir," I said, “but I have worked here." He said, "Who do you know?" I said, "Practically everybody here." There was an old gentleman in the power house by the name of Ball, who was sitting out on the porch, and he holloed over to me, “Hello, Bob," and I said, “Hello," and I left and went away from there, and after I left there I went to see my son-they were putting up a new transformer house, and he took me around and showed it to me. And when I left my boy, I think this man's name was Rennels, and he went to my boy and inquired all about me, but at that time I thought this Rennels was a perfect gentleman, he was a nice fellow. I met him several times after that.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Did you leave the mine before the strike occurred? Mr. YOUNG. Yes; I hadn't been in the mine for a year before the strike. Commissioner O'CONNELL. Why did you leave the mine?

Mr. YOUNG. Why, sir; I got knocked out, as the saying is. I got in a place where the air was pretty foul, and I could not stand it. I was getting a little up in years at the time.