Mr. STEVENS. When I arrived there, I told those that were interested in the matter that under no circumstances would I have anything to do with bringing in a boy that was intending to come here to enter any other pursuit than that o fa student; that I wanted to know absolutely; that I wanted their promise that they would not attempt to bring anyone that was not a bona fide student. And with that in view, I had them assemble the students from time to time, looked them over myself, and talked to each one; and I had some assistance there. Then I had a talk with the American consul, Mr. Bergholz, relative to the matter. I told him that under no circumstances would I have anything to do with bringing in a boy that was not a bona fide student, and if he had any misgivings in the matter that they might not be, I would appreciate the fact if he would say so, and if there was any students that were brought before him that he did not think were bona fide students, that I would be very glad if he would instruct them if there was any doubt whatever.

Mr. BUSIEK. You did get 96 students to pass muster?

Mr. STEVENS One hundred, just an even hundred.

Mr. BUSIEK. An even hundred?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes.

Mr. BUSIEK. How many through Seattle?

Mr. STEVENS. Fifty-six.

Mr. BUSIEK. What became of the other four?

Mr. STEVENS. The other four had not--never came over, to my knowledge. Mr. BUSIEK. And what arrangement did you make for compensation to yourself? Did you get so much a head or so much for the whole crowd?

Mr. STEVENS. There wasn't a definite arrangement made relative to that. The only thing that was definitely agreed upon was that if the undertaking succeeded, they came through, they were to pay my expenses and pay me for what I would lose in my practice. And I had some legal work, quite considerable legal work at that time, which I had to hire done by other attorneys. They were to compensate me for my trouble, with the understanding it would not take us over ninety days to make the trip.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you have to put up your own expenses?
Mr. STEVENS. I put up my own expenses at first.

with me.

Chairman WALSH. Who was to compensate you?

Mr. STEVENS. Beg pardon.

I had $800 in money

Chairman WALSH. Who was to compensate you? Did you make this agree ment that you have spoken of-was it with Paul Lewis?

Mr. STEVENS. My agreement with him with reference to a certain number of students-I overlooked that. There was another Chinese in the city came to me and asked me if I would bring over some of his friends, belonging to another family.

Mr. BUSIEK. Who was that?

Mr. STEVENS. Mark Ging.
Mr. BUSIEK. Mark Ging?

Mr. STEVENS. Mark Ging.

Mr. BUSIEK. Both Paul Lewis and Mark Ging were connected with the Adelphia Academy?

Mr. STEVENS. They had been attending the academy; yes.

Chairman WALSH. Well, Mr. Stevens, who was to determine what your losses would be from your practice?

Mr. STEVENS. That was left indefinite, no

Chairman WALSH. Well, was it to be fixed up after you came back?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes.

Chairman WALSH. What fee did you receive for the whole job?

Mr. STEVENS. As a matter of fact my expenses were paid in driblets from time to time and I never kept an account of it. I have never kept a cash account of my own business, I am frank to say, until a month ago I started in, and I never kept those items.

Chairman WALSH. Could you approximate how much compensation you re

ceived?

Mr. STEVENS. I can; yes. I received for my services I think between $2,500

and $3,000.

Chairman WALSH. And the expenses amounted to how much?

Mr. STEVENS. And the expense is very indefinite. I would rather not approximate it. The expenses were quite heavy.

Chairman WALSH. Did you receive any more than your actual expense on that account?

Mr. STEVENS. No; only-well, my wife was with me, and it was understood that her expenses would be paid, too. I wasn't willing to leave her here. I told them I would not go without her, and both of our expenses were paid. Chairman WALSH. Any one else; any other person who went along? Mr. STEVENS. No; only excepting the two mentioned.

Chairman WALSH. Was your payment contingent upon your success?

Mr. STEVENS. Largely. I was to be reimbursed to an extent if I-if we didn't succeed, but mostly depending on the success of it.

Chairman WALSH. Did you make any statement, now, to these clients, to these two men as to the amount that you lost from your practice while you were there?

Mr. STEVENS. Never.

Chairman WALSH. Or did you just fix a lump sum?

Mr. STEVENS. I never made a statement. I have never received anywheres rear what I expected to receive for it, and never had occasion to make a statement. After the expenses were accumulated here and there I have asked them for some money, and they would give me some.

Chairman WALSH. Do you know Mr. Taylor, of the immigration office? What is his name?

Mr. BUSIEK. Richard Taylor.

Chairman WALSH. Richard Taylor.

Mr. STEVENS. I don't know him. The name is familiar. I don't know him. Chairman WALSH, Were you acquainted with the commissioner here?

Mr. STEVENS. Mr. de Bruler?

Chairman WALSH. Yes.

Mr. STEVENS. I was not prior to that time. I knew who he was.

Chairman WALSH. Were you acquainted with Mr. John B. Sawyer, the inspector, or the deputy consul general that you met in China?

Mr. STEVENS. I never met him.

Chairman WALSH. Sir?

Mr. STEVENS. I never met him.

Chairman WALSH. Did you meet him in China?

Mr. STEVENS. No; he wasn't there at the time I was there.

Mr. BUSIEK. Now, you sort of stood sponsor for these boys, did you not?

Mr. STEVENS. You mean after arriving here?

Mr. BUSIEK. Yes; that is, you agreed with the immigration authorities that they were going to be under your charge at Adelphia College; that you would look after them; that you had collected them; and that you knew who they were and what their intentions were; and that you would notify the department in the event that any of them left and were not bona fide students? Didn't you make such an agreement with Mr. Monroe?

Mr. STEVENS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you not tell them that you were assured of the bona fides of these students?

Mr. STEVENS. That I was sure?

Mr. BUSIEK. Yes.

Mr. STEVENS. That I felt myself positive? Yes; I did that.

Mr. BUSIEK. And did not you tell them that you were going to look after them at Adelphia College?

Mr. STEVENS. You mean tell Mr. Monroe or Mr. Bergholz? I don't understand.

Mr. BUSIEK. Either one of them.

Mr. STEVENS. My understanding with the State Department there was that I would bring them over here and request that they all stay in Seattle for at least one year in order to become acquainted with the American manners and customs.

Mr. BUSIEK. Now, you were dean of the Chinese department?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BUSIEK. And shortly after your arrival the first batch of them left; that is true, is it not?

Mr. STEVENS. I beg your pardon.

Mr. BUSIEK. Shortly after

Chairman WALSH. A little louder, Mr. Busiek.

Mr. BUSIEK. Shortly after your arrival in Seattle the first batch of those students escaped at night, did they not, and left the school?

Mr. STEVENS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. Within a few weeks?

Mr. STEVENS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. How long did they attend before any of them left?

Mr. STEVENS. Why, I think about three months.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you make any investigation as to where they went?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BUSIEK. What did you find out?

Mr. STEVENS. We weren't able to find out anything. There were possibly half a dozen out of the first 30, or something like that, that left; that we found their whereabouts. The others we could not find.

Mr. BUSIEK. What was the nature of the investigation that you made?

Mr. STEVENS. Inquiries through Chinese where they might go, where they might have gone.

Mr. BUSIEK. Now, they were all consigned to relatives here, or you got them, as you say, on behalf of relatives here in Seattle?

Mr. STEVENS. Not all of them; no.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, how did you get the rest? What prompted you to get others when you weren't asked?

Mr. STEVENS. Relatives in China.

Mr. BUSIEK. And how did you happen to get in touch with those relatives in China?

Mr. STEVENS. I didn't get in touch with them, personally.

Mr. BUSIEK. Who did?

Mr. STEVENS. The Chinese, Paul Lewis and Mark Ging.

Mr. BUSIEK. And they brought these to you and said, "Here are some more boys that want to go with you"; is that the idea?

Mr. STEVENS. That is the idea.

Mr. BUSIEK. And you had no idea of getting those until you got over in China?

Mr. STEVENS. I had no idea of getting them; I didn't have the names of any of those who were coming prior to my going to China.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, did you

Chairman WALSH. One minute.

How many did you think when you started

over that you were going to bring back?

Mr. STEVENS. Sixty is the limit.

Mr. BUSIEK. Didn't you have an agreement with Prof. Schmidt and Mr. Ericcson that you were to bring over 10 or 12?

Mr. STEVENS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. Didn't they have a meeting at which you were present, and took down the proceedings in minutes; wasn't it then decided that you should bring 10 or 12 students?

Mr. STEVENS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. Isn't it a fact that when you came back with this great number of students they held a special meeting and that everyone present expressed surprise at the fact that you had brought so many, and there was some question as to whether or not they would accept those that you brought, and that it was then finally decided to create a Chinese department to take care of those students? Isn't that a fact?

Mr. STEVENS. Practically correct.

Mr. BUSIEK. Do you say you had no understanding that only 10 or 12 were to be brought over?

Mr. STEVENS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you tell Dr. Schmidt that you were going to bring over 60. or intended to bring over 60?

Mr. STEVENS. I don't remember telling Dr. Schmidt the number that I intended to bring in.

Mr. BUSIEK. You had no understanding at all with him about the number? Mr. STEVENS. The fact that it was not intended that all the students I should bring should attend Adelphia College. And they were all to be given the option of whether or not they were to attend Adelphia or some other school in Seattle. I was insisting that they all attend some school in Seattle for at least one year, and then if they had relatives in different parts of the country to whom they wanted to go, we could probably arrange for their going to them.

Mr. BUSIER. Now, when these students left, did you go to their relatives, who had prevailed upon you to bring them over, and charge them with bad faith? Mr. STEVENS. I went to the Chinese with whom I had dealt, and asked them to give us the address, and I went to several others and got the address of relatives of some of the boys with a view to finding out where they had gone. Mr. BUSIEK. And you never found one?

Mr. STEVENS. I never we found where some were, yes; but we didn't get any back.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever take this information that you had before the district attorney and make any complaint?

Mr. STEVENS. No; I didn't think that was necessary.

Mr. BUSIEK. Didn't you feel that you had been imposed upon by these Chinese who requested you to bring boys over here, and then these boys escaped; didn't you feel you had been imposed upon?

Mr. STEVENS. I felt that sincerely; yes, sir.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, what did you do about it?

Mr. STEVENS. I tried to get in touch with the boys, as I have said before. Mr. BUSIEK. But you didn't get in touch with them.

Mr. STEVENS. I didn't succeed.

Mr. BUSIEK. And you took no action against those who had imposed upon you and who had been guilty of this fraud against the immigration law?

Mr. STEVENS. The immigration office had the names, and were looking after that, and I supposed that was sufficient.

Mr. BUSIEK. How many interviews did you have with the immigration authorities?

Mr. STEVENS. I can't say how many I did have. I should say a half dozen, perhaps.

Mr. BUSIEK. And Mark Ging or this Paul Lewis, how much did they get out of that?

Mr. STEVENS. I haven't any idea.

Mr. BUSIEK. They showed sudden prosperity after they came back here, didn't they?

Mr. STEVENS. No; they did not.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did they ever make any statement to you of having received any money out of this?

Mr. STEVENS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. Stevens, what independent means did you have before you went over to China? Did you have more than the $800 which you took over

there?

Mr. STEVENS. You mean in money?

Mr. BUSIEK. Yes, or property?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes. Yes; I had property here.

Mr. BUSIEK. What did that consist of, real estate?

Mr. STEVENS. Real estate mostly, and I had quite a few owing me-a considerable amount owing me from clients.

Mr. BUSIER. I thought you had no practice prior to that time.

Mr. STEVENS. I beg your pardon.

Mr. BUSIEK. Didn't you just tell us that you hadn't established any office until 1910 and didn't practice until that time?

Mr. STEVENS. I had been practicing about a year, I think.

Mr. BUSIEK. When did you buy your farm, Mr. Stevens?

Mr. STEVENS. In 1912.

Mr. BUSIEK. And how much did you pay on that at that time?

Mr. STEVENS. I paid $2,000.

Mr. BUSIEK. I believe that is all.

Commissioner LENNON. Are there any questions?

That is all, Mr. Stevens,

Mr. BUSIEK. Thank you.

TESTIMONY OF MR. FRED LYSONS.

Mr. BUSIEK. There is the stand, Mr. Lysons. We will wait for Mr. Walsh. Chairman WALSH. Be sworn. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give in the hearing now before this commission, being an investigation into the alleged smuggling of Asiatics into the United States, will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? Mr. LYSONS. I do.

Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. Lysons, I gave you a copy of a proposed bill prepared by the Chinese Chamber of Commerse, or the attorneys for the Chinese Chamber of Commerce in San Francisco, and providing-which bill provides for the reregistration of Chinese under certain conditions. And I asked you to examine it and submit it to your clients, among whom is the Chinese consul, and to talk it over with them, and to appear before this commission and give your views concerning this bill. Have you looked over this bill and examined it? Mr. LYSONS. I have; yes, sir.

Mr. BUSIEK. Now, just enter into a dissussion of that, Mr. Lysons, and tell the commission what you think of the proposed law.

Mr. Lysons. I think the enactment of such a law by this country would be the height of folly. And as a matter of statesmanship I think it would be the most short-sighted step this country could take with reference to immigration matters generally.

We have with China a safeguard that we have as to no other country. We have the exclusion law, absolutely excluding or prohibiting Chinese immigration, except as to certain specified and limited classes. That law probably is not absolutely prohibitive, as no prohibitive law on any subject is, but it seems to me that the law is entirely effective for the purpose of keeping out of this country undesirable Chinese.

The greatest objection, probably, to such a law is the fact that this country is looking-or, at least, it should look-to China for the extension of our commercial business and interests. China offers, in my judgment, the greatest and most promising market that is open to the world to-day.

Now, in face of the exclusion law that we have with China, which we have with no other country, to add to that to those people the additional humiliation of requiring them to register, to tag themselves and mark themselves as a condition of the few-comparatively few that are here remaining in this country, would be, in my judgment, as I have said, the height of folly. And I think that if this country enacts any such a law we might just as well bid good-by to any prospect of extending our trade and commercial relations with China.

Mr. BUSIEK. Do you know of any Chinese taking this proposed law up with their Government in China?

Mr. LYSONS. I don't know that they have done that. I know the feeling of the Chinese here with reference to it, it is somewhat a matter of indifference with them. The Chinese population of this country is comparatively small; it is constantly decreasing. In the course of a few years, under our present law, there will be practically no Chinese here. Those who are here feel that if this country is going to maintain exclusion laws and prevent others of their race from coming here, that they had just as well return to China and carry on their business and commercial relations with other countries, and the matter of this law or any law of this sort is a matter largely of indifference with them.

I

Among my clients here I have talked with a number of Chinese and endeavored to get them to come before the commission and express their views upon it, and that is the way they have expressed themselves with me. finally did get one Chinese by the name of Woo Gen, who, I think, has been subpoenaed here as a witness, is one of the pioneer Chinese merchants of this city, and he agreed to express his views on it.

The Chinese consul and his secretary refused to express their views, partly, of course, because they are in the diplomatic service and didn't regard it as proper to make any suggestions to this country as to its policy and enactment of laws.

Mr. BUSIEK. The proponents of the bill claim this for it: They say that the Chinese who are now in this country-many of them would have difficulty in establishing their status and right to be here-are constanly menaced and harassed even though they have a right to be here, and it is hard to prove it, and that they are open to extortion by dishonest and corrupt officials and by blackmailers of their own race; that if this bill was passed no Chinaman who is now in this country lawfully need be uneasy. They don't think it a harsh requirement that he register so as to assure himself security for all time, and it would be a great protection to the Chinese who are lawfully here and would enable the Government to check up closely on such Chinese as might come here after the period of registration.

Now, have the Chinese considered those advantages?