Mr. BUSIEK. Well, isn't this Chinese student game one of the favorite methods of smuggling Chinese into this country? Isn't it rather common

Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). We never had much-well, that is really the only big one we have ever had, I think. We have had odds and ends-separate cases, but I don't remember of ever having a big lot like that before.

Mr. BUSIEK. But amongst the immigration authorities isn't that generally known

Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). Well, I think it is always looked upon with suspicion.

Mr. BUSIEK. In a Chinese student case isn't it

Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). Well, I won't say that.

Mr. BUSIEK (continuing). Isn't the presumption against every case until they are proved?

Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; I should say the presumption is against them.

Mr. BUSIEK. How many cases of Chinese students would you say you had in the last five years in all the Chinese schools?

Mr. BILLINGS. I should say more in that time than we have had altogether besides.

Mr. BUSIEK. But you had had already some experience with fraudulent Chinese-student cases up to that time, had you not?

Mr. BILLINGS. I don't remember any.

Mr. BUSIEK. Is that the first experience your office had?

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, I can't remember-the first big case, anyway, we ever had. We did not admit them. You understand they were admitted by Van

couver.

Mr. BUSIEK. Admitted by Vancouver; but you made the investigation as to their credentials?

Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; and I think-I don't remember-of course I haven't seen the papers for some time, but I don't remember that we were very strenuous to have them come in. I may be wrong in that, but I don't think we were.

Chairman WALSH. I didn't hear that. You were not very strenuous about what?

Mr. BILLINGS. About wanting to admit them, as I remember it. The report there will show probably.

Chairman WALSH. You mean you were not strenuous about investigatingMr. BILLINGS (interrupting). No; not very strenuous about admitting themnot very strenuous about allowing them to stay. I think the report there will show what it-but I haven't seen it for some years.

Commissioner LENNON. Well, does that mean that you had some doubt about their eligibility under the law?

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, had some doubts about whether they would stay as students-whether they would not disappear. I think probably all did go Christmas except three or four.

Commissioner LENNON, All except three?

Mr. BILLINGS. All except three; yes.

Commissioner LENNON. Well, isn't it customary to hold these students at the port of entry until you are satisfied whether or not they are bona fide students? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, I should say they would hold them, I would think. Commissioner LENNON. Well, they would not admit them at Vancouver until you reported favorably?

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, I don't know how that is. They get our report, and it is for them to decide whether they consider it favorably or unfavorably.

Commissioner LENNON. You have no right to keep them out of the district if they landed them?

Mr. BILLINGS. No.

Commissioner LENNON. Have you no system of keeping check on any Chinese whom you suspect?

Mr. BILLINGS. What do you mean? No, we can not-we haven't got the force with which to keep in touch with the Chinamen. We would have to have a good deal larger force than we have to follow them up. The only cases we can follow up at all-even immigration cases-is bond cases, and then it takes a great deal of time.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, now, Cushing Academy is a reputable school?

Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BUSIEK. And they would cooperate with you to the extent of furnishing you reports?

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, I think they would furnish us reports, and did-that they did not return after Christmas

Mr. BUSIEK. What action did you take then when you found out that they had not returned?

Mr. BILLINGS. I can't remember that. I haven't any idea. That is all shown in the records.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, what would you do in the ordinary course of affairs when such a case arises?

Mr. BILLINGS. We attempt to find out where they went to after their going from Cushing Academy, of course, and see if we can find out who they would go to and who their friends and relatives were, and who they would naturally go to.

Mr. BUSIEK. Is there any action you can take against these friends that would have given this information?

Mr. BILLINGS. I don't know whether you can prosecute for perjury or contrary to the act.

Mr. BUSIEK (interrupting). For assisting in smuggling

Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). For assisting in getting them in contrary to law or not.

Mr. BUSIEK. Have you ever contemplated or advised such action?

Mr. BILLINGS. We have done that in immigration cases.

Mr. BUSIEK. Have you ever done it in Chinese cases?

Mr. BILLINGS. I don't remember of ever having done it in Chinese cases.

Mr. BUSIEK. Do you have any complaints now about Chinese being smuggledd into this district?

Mr. BILLINGS. Oh, yes.

Mr. BUSIEK. How frequently?

Mr. BILLINGS. Oh, I couldn't say. They are mostly-they very seldom give any names signed to the letter, practically always anonymous letters. We got letters this morning about a man up in Springfield-an anonymous complaint. Still we look into it.

Mr. BUSIEK. Who looks into it?

Mr. BILLINGS. If it is Chinese, either McCabe or Sullivan would look into it. Mr. BUSIEK. And what is this stenographer's name?

Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. Perry.

Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. Perry, where is he?

Mr. BILLINGS. He is on leave now.

Mr. BUSIEK. And when you get such a complaint you send up a man to investigate it?

Mr. BILLINGS. As soon as we can.

Mr. BUSIEK. Hasn't there been considerable complaints by the Massachusetts Laundrymen's Association? Have they made any formal complaint?

Mr. BILLINGS. No; I don't think I ever heard of any complaint from them. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you heard of their making any investigation as to the Chinese?

Mr. BILLINGS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. Is this Cushing Academy matter you just turned that over to Mr. McCabe?

Mr. BILLINGS. Absolutely, except he would confer with me after his report was turned in. We would talk over matters before the report was sent to Washington, and I would either agree with him or have him change his report or I would change my letter. You understand I don't sign everything that he turns in. I took a letter the other day that he turned in and turned it around absolutely, because I did not agree with him.

Mr. BUSIEK. Had you ever heard of this Sarah Hing before they brought in the 20 Chinese to Cushing Academy?

Mr. BILLINGS. No, I never heard of her.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, didn't it occur to you that when these Chinese all left Cushing Academy it would be well to get the person that brought them over? Mr. BILLINGS. I don't remember what we did do.

Mr. BUSIER. For your information, if you don't remember

Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). I don't remember.

Mr. BUSIEK. There is correspondence here two months after those Chinese left Cushing Academy showing the whereabouts of the people who brought them over. Did you ever make any effort to find those people?

Mr. BILLINGS. Why I think that the reports were sent to the different districts where they went. Almost all of them went out of Massachusetts if I remember rightly. Now, we know now to-day where I think practically half of them are. The other half we have lost sight of entirely-that is, the half of them that are in the different schools.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, you have no regulation as to what school they must attend?

Mr. BILLINGS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. Can a Chinese student, for instance, come in and enter at Vancouver and say he is going to the Cushing Academy, Ashburnham, Mass., and go there awhile and live there and then go to any other place

Mr. BILLINGS. That would be for the department to determine-whether he said he was carrying on any educational work in any institution. I don't think they would care if he really went to another institution but was really carrying on educational work.

Mr. BUSIEK. Doesn't he have to get permission before he can change?

Mr. BILLINGS. No; I think not-if they are satisfied.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, he becomes a free lance, and your department quits watching him the moment he enters an institution?

Mr. BILLINGS. No; we try to follow him up as to whether he stays or not and to get reports about him. But, as I say, as I understand it, we have got track of half of these people still in various institutions, and know what institutions they are in; but there are half of them that we haven't any track of. We would like to find them, but I don't see what else you can do. If you did the way you do when you let people in under bond you could make them produce them.

Mr. BUSIEK. Then you think it would be advisable that the law be amended or a regulation be made requiring these students to give bonds?

Mr. BILLINGS. I think if it would not be contrary to the treaty, or anything, I think that would be a very good thing. Whether it would be contrary to the treaty, I don't know.

Mr. BUSIEK. The Chinese law as it now exists, do you think that is all that could be desired? Have you any suggestions to offer?

Mr. BILLINGS. No; I would want

Mr. BUSIEK (interrupting). Is there any amendment that could be made to that law?

Mr. BILLINGS. No; I would not want to suggest-an immigration officer is getting on delicate grounds if he makes any suggestions against certain races. Mr. BUSIEK. This is an executive session.

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, a person would not want-or, as an official, I would not want to go on record

Mr. BUSIEK (interrupting). Well, I am just asking you personally, now, in this executive session what the weaknesses of the present law are?

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, personally, I think that allowing these people to go home and come back-although it might be an injustice not to do it on those who are entitled to it, and native Chinese-of course, the native Chinese, we are up against a big snag there. That is something you could not stop, you know. Mr. BUSIEK. Native Chinese citizens of the United States?

Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; we can not stop them.

Mr. BUSIEK. And they can go and come as they choose?

Mr. BILLINGS. Yes.

Mr. BUSIEK. But why are you up against a snag about Chinese being allowedthe domiciled Chinese, who are not natives or citizens of the United States that have a right to be here-what objection is there to their going back?

Mr. BILLINGS. The natives?

Mr. BUSIEK. Yes.

Mr. BILLINGS. There is a question of whether they will come back or not come back. To-day I think we are stopping them; but I think for a time there, way back there, used to be changing of pictures. I think the way things are to-day, it is a good deal harder for Chinamen to get in than 10 or 15 years ago.

Mr. BUSIEK. Yes; your idea is that the Chinese go back to China; that is, a Chinaman would leave Boston and go to China and send his brother or some relative or friend back?

Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; that is what they used to do, without any question. I don't think they do as much to-day; whether they do it at all or not I could not say, but I suppose they do.

Mr. BUSIEK. Do you find many cases where Chinese merchants bring in fraudulent wives and children?

Mr. BILLINGS. You see we are a port of entry; but they do not come to Boston now, so I don't have much to do with that. We did find-well, no, we did not find many. We had three or four cases, I think, that came here at that time, but very few.

Mr. BUSIEK. About how many cases do you handle out of this port in a year? Mr. BILLINGS. Going out?

Mr. BUSIEK. Yes.

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, that I don't know. I think-not out of here, but simply an investigation of cases that go out from Vancouver, San Francisco, Malone, or some place like that-well, I couldn't tell you.

Mr. BUSIEK. Isn't it pretty generally known, or are there not strong reasons for suspecting, that there is organized smuggling going on from the West to the East, into the United States, of Chinamen?

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, there has always been suspicion as to that, but we have never been able really to find it out.

Mr. BUSIEK. What is there to prevent a Chinaman from coming up on a steamer from the West Indies and dropping off out in the harbor? Do you inspect the steamers as they come in to see whether or not there is any contraband Chinese stowed away on them?

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, there is some one, generally, either down to the steamer or when she gets to the wharf. We don't go below Quarantine on any steamer; under the quarantine regulations we are not supposed to.

Mr. BUSIEK. Do you make an examination of her so thorough that there would be no possibility of a stowaway?

Mr. BILLINGS. No; there is no way possible of making an examination of a steamer that they can't smuggle under. We have examined Italian ships and examined and examined. But it is just like a lot of rat holes in these steamers, and I wouldn't say for one minute but what they could smuggle in an odd Italian, I think; but it would be harder to smuggle in a Chinaman, because people are suspicious if they see a Chinaman on a dock. They would be suspicious, while they might not be suspicious of any other nationality.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, granting that a Chinaman would be willing to pay high for the privilege of entering this country, wouldn't it be worth some man's while to take a boat-a motor boat-and drop alongside of one of these steamers?

Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). Well, then, you have got the whole crew, and they mostly have an English crew on them; and these steamers don't anchor first, except very seldom, but come up to the wharf. They don't come in on a schedule. You can't tell when they are going to come in; they are not like a railroad schedule. They might come in the morning or at any other time, and they may be in 24 hours or 24 hours later.

Mr. BUSIEK. Then it is your opinion that the smuggling of Chinese has practically stopped at this port?

Mr. BILLINGS. I say practically. I don't say there is none, but I don't think it is reasonable, the way the customs, or the way things are organized now, show that they are watching for them and they are on duty all the time. Of course, we don't have the men at the docks day and night-in fact, we haven't got the force to do it-but the customs officers have got people on the dock day and night, and, in fact, it was the customs officers that discovered some Chinamen over on the White Star Line here last fall for us.

Mr. BUSIEK. Isn't there considerable suspicion amongst you men that great numbers of Chinese cross the Canadian border?

Mr. BILLINGS. Why, I should naturally think that Chinamen have a chance to get across the Canadian border and the Mexican border also, because it is hard to patrol.

Mr. BUSIEK. Have you any idea how many men they have got upon the Canadian border?

Mr. BILLINGS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. How far apart are the stations? Have you any idea at all? Mr. BILLINGS. No; offhand, I couldn't tell. We have a record of where each station is, but I couldn't tell you that. That is something, of course, that comes under Mr. Clark, and I have nothing to do with that. He starts from the Maine coast and goes to Vancouver.

Mr. BUSIEK. What system of inspection have you? Suppose a Chinese smuggler would bring 20 men across the Canadian border and plumped them down in

the middle of Boston somewhere; have you any way of checking on the Chinese population at all?

Mr. BILLINGS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. So you would know whether or not those men were smuggled in?

Mr. BILLINGS. No.

Mr. BUSIEK. You have not conducted a general raid since 1903?

Mr. BILLINGS. No, sir. We were set on so hard for that that we haven't been looking for any more trouble.

Mr. BUSIEK. And when a Chinaman then gets past the border into an interior town or large city his troubles are over?

Mr. BILLINGS. They are apt to be unless somebody reports he is there and you arrest him. But there is not much chance of it.

Mr. BUSIEK. Unless he should be turned up" as they say by some enemy? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes.

Mr. BUSIEK. He would not be barred?

Mr. BILLINGS. I don't think they would find him.

Mr. BUSIEK. There is no system of inspection that would catch him?

Mr. BILLINGS. No: I don't know how there could be.

Mr. BUSIEK. And the only efforts made are made right at the border?

Mr. BILLINGS. Unless something is reported, of course.

Mr. BUSIEK. I believe that is all, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman WALSH. Any questions?

Commissioner LENNON. In the landing of those 20 students at Vancouver, did the Vancouver authorities know that they were bound for this school? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes.

Commissioner LENNON. Well, then, did they have to be assured that they were in compliance with the American law or the Canadian law in order

Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). American law. They could not land In Canada-I think students are the same as individuals in Canada and have to pay a head tax. They all of them come right through. We have arranged with them for them to come right through

Commissioner LENNON (interrupting). I didn't know as to the application of the law, whether when they landed there they had to comply with ours or with theirs.

Mr. BILLINGS. No, sir; as long as they are coming right through I don't think the Canadians bother them at all.

Commissioner LENNON. Is there any division of authority in the carrying out of the exclusion law between the different departments of the Government? Does it all come under one department?

Mr. BILLINGS. Well, any other department, if they saw any smuggling, any of the customs department they have always endeavored to help us, if they see what they think is any smuggling of Chinamen; and the customs department, of course, is more nearly mixed in with our department than any other. Commissioner LENNON. But the examination and the effort to exclude anyone that it seems should be excluded, it all comes under your department? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; it would be reported to our department.

Commissioner LENNON. Has there ever been a man in the employ of your department since you have been here by the name of Skeffington? Mr. BILLINGS. No; he left before my time.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Was he commissioner here at one time?

Mr. BILLINGS. No, sir; I think his title was contract-labor inspector. No; Mr. Delahanty was the commissioner.

Commissioner LENNON. That is all I want to ask.

Chairman WALSH. Do you want to ask this witness some questions, Mr. Weinstock?

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Yes. Are you personally under the civil-service law. Mr. Billings?

Mr. BILLINGS. No.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. You are not?

Mr. BILLINGS. No, sir.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. You are appointed by the President?

Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir. I am the only one at our office that is not civil service.

Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Well, you have been in office now under several administrations, then?