Mr. BUSIEK. If you find a Chinaman with a forged certificate But, of course, • Mr. BILLINGS. Well, every kind of legal process is brought against us in the matter. Mr. BUSIEK. State the steps that you take in attempting to deport a China man. Mr. BILLINGS. Well, in the first place, to-day if it is found that a Chinaman is here illegally we do one of two things, either apply to the department for a warrant of arrest or go before a United States commissioner and ask for a warrant. Mr. BUSIEK. Apply to what department? Mr. BILLINGS. Our own department. Mr. BUSIEK. You have got to get authorization from Washington? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes. We can not touch a Chinaman, or can not touch anybody, or we can not do anything unless we arrested them on a warrant, or something of that sort. We either have to go to the commissioner to get a warrant for him or get it from our department. Mr. BUSIEK. The hearing before the United States commissioner is not conclusive? Mr. BILLINGS. No; they can appeal to the court. Mr. BUSIEK. To the circuit court? Mr. BILLINGS. To the district court. Mr. BUSIEK. And then appeal lies from that, of course, to the appellate court? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir; and sometimes it is three or four years. We have cases now that have been hanging now three or four years, Mr. BUSIEK. Do you ever have a jury trial in those cases? Mr. BILLINGS. No, sir; not that I know of. Mr. BUSIEK. Is the hearing before the commissioner--and then, you say, there is an appeal to the district court? Mr. BILLINGS. They appeal to the district court; but, of course, if the commissioner lets them go, that is about the end of it. Mr. BUSIEK. How many cases have you had in the last year, approximately? Mr. BILLINGS. I have not any idea. Mr. BUSIEK. Would you say it is as high as a hundred? Mr. BILLINGS. Oh, no. No, no; nowhere near that. Mr. BUSIEK. How many United States commissioners are there in Boston? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, there is only one commissioner; but there are, I think, probably we might call them alternates or assistant commissioners in case he is sick or away. Mr. BUSIEK. My understanding is there are four United States commissioners in this district? Mr. BILLINGS. All I know of is Mr. Hayes and Mr. Hale and one other-I can't think of his name. I did not know there was a fourth. Mr. BUSIEK. Who tries the most cases? Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. Hayes. Mr. BUSIEK. And he has tried them for a number of years, has he not? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. What kind of success does your department have in cases tried before Commissioner Hayes? Mr. BILLINGS. Not very good. Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever make a request of the district attorney that he send these cases to some of the other commissioners for hearing? Mr. BILLINGS. I think we have. I don't mean to say that positively, because I am not sure; but I think we have. Mr. BUSIEK. Who would make that request, you or some one of your subordinates? Mr. BILLINGS. Probably come through me. It would have to come through me if it was made, but whether they have done it I can't say offhand. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, isn't it a fact that there has been considerable talk about town that Hayes turns all the Chinamen loose; that it is of no use to take cases before him because he will turn them loose? Mr. BILLINGS. I should rather go before somebody else. I think, as a matter of fact, that that matter has been brought to the attention of the department, suggesting that it would be better for us to have them brought before somebody else. But that rests with the United States attorney more than with us. Mr. BUSIEK. It does. Have you ever tried to get the United States attorney to cooperate with you and assign-you know, as a matter of fact, that he has the right to assign them to whatever commissioner he chooses? Mr. BILLINGS. I think we have. I don't know that we have ever wanted to get into a controversy about the matter. We have suggested it. Whether we have brought it right to a head, I won't say that we have. Mr. BUSIEK. Do your men ever complain to you that it is no use to bring up cases before Hayes? Mr. BILLINGS. Why, leaving Chinese aside, I consider that in most immigration cases it is foolish to take them up before him. That is something I know more about than I do about the Chinese. I feel that it is practically absurd to take any case up, because if we are going to get turned down, or if the sentence is going to be so light that it don't amount to anything-we have practically given up taking up all immigration cases-unless we take it for granted we have to Mr. BUSIEK (interrupting). General immigration cases don't have to go before United States commissioners? Mr. BILLINGS. Oh, yes-I mean for the prosecution of a man bringing a woman in for immoral purposes or if we want to prosecute a man for using citizens papers fraudulently we have got to go before them. Mr. BUSIEK. To deport an undesirable alien you don't have to go before a United States commissioner? Mr. BILLINGS. No; the only thing is if they get a writ out against us, then it goes up to the district court. Mr. BUSIEK. But that leaves the commissioner out? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; the commissioner has nothing to do with that. Mr. BUSIEK. Why do you bring your Chinese cases before the commissioner? Mr. BILLINGS. Because if you arrest anybody-that has been the ruling of the department as I understand it. Chairman WALSH. I didn't hear that. Mr. BILLINGS. As I understand the ruling of the department is that we have got to take them before the commissioner. If a case comes in here, for instance a stowaway, anything of that sort, then we act under the general immigration laws and do not have to take him before a commissioner. Mr. BUSIEK. The general immigration act provides that if a Chinaman, or if any person within three years after his entry, is found to be an undesirable person, the immigration authorities can deport him? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; but you find a Chinaman who has been here 20 years and has not got his proper papers and you can show it, he has got to go. Mr. BUSIEK. But most of the cases you find have not been here that three years? Mr. BILLINGS. I don't know how that would be. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you ever tried that; or getting a ruling on that? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; I don't remember the exact details of it, but I assure you we don't take any more before Commissioner Hayes than we have to. Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever attempt to deport any without taking them before a commissioner? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; and did the other day, a Chinaman found on a fruiter. Mr. BUSIEK. A stowaway? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. I realize that you could turn him back; but suppose yon find a Chinaman down here in some laundry as to whom yon would have some information through various sources that he came into this country, say, two years ago. Is there any law which you know of or any ruling of your department which would prevent you from treating him just as you would any other undesirable alien under the general immigration laws? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; I would say that we would take him before-if you get a warrant you could hold him under the warrant, but if you don't get a warrant you have to take him before the commissioner. I have forgotten just exactly how this is, but in these immigration matters we never go to the commissioner except for prosecution or a writ that goes before the district court. Mr. BUSIEK. The point I am trying to make is, suppose you pick up some woman here in Boston in a house of prostitution and she had come over from France, say, two years ago, you would not take her before the United States commissioner? Mr. BILLINGS. No. Mr. BUSIEK. Suppose now you find a Chinaman in a laundry who had come over here from Canton two years ago; would you take him before the commissioner? Mr. BILLINGS. I am not clear now. We did used to have, but whether we are taking them there now or trying to run them on our own warrant-we have had so few lately I am not clear; I am not sure. Mr. BUSIEK. What is your best information as to the conditions in Boston here now in regard to smuggled Chinese? Mr. BILLINGS. Why, I don't think they are smuggling many. If they are smuggling them, they probably come through the border. I don't think there are any coming in in vessels. We have caught a few odds and ends. We caught some on the White Star boat. We caught two one time about a year ago, I think it was, and caught two last fall on a Hamburg-American boat, who tried to come in as Japanese; and we caught one the other day, as I say, on a fruiter that came in here, that was in a barrel of empty beer bottles, and they were going to get him out in the barrel. Mr. BUSIEK. Well, leaving that part of it aside, did you ever make a census of the Chinese in your district or keep any tab on them? Mr. BILLINGS. No; we have not for years. Years ago we made a raid on Chinatown, which was quite and we got quite severely criticized. Mr. BUSIEK. I think that was when Mr. Shell was here, and when you arrested some 300 of them. Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir; and we sent back some 50 or 60 of them that we found were here illegally. Mr. BUSIEK. But this criticism was of the method of the officers and the manner of doing it. Weren't there a lot of Chinese hurt in that raid? Mr. BILLINGS. No, sir. There were two Chinamen hurt. There was a barge tipped over. It was an unfortunate thing. We had a barge there to take them down-to hold them. It was before we had our station. And the barge in starting this was, I think, in 1903-and the barge in starting--I went to the captain of police and myself went and took about half the Chinamen. They had them crowded in so much, and the man when he went to start the team went to turn on the car track; I told him to be careful, and this driver when he started to move it, and it shook a little, and it was full of Chinamen, and they rushed to one side, and naturally the barge tipped right over, but there were only two of the Chinamen hurt, I think, and six policemen were all injured. One broke his ankle and another was badly hurt, and out of the 30 Chinamen only 2 were hurt. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, you did in that raid-when you rounded up some 300 Chinese you did, as matter of fact, deport 50 or 60? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. That was in 1903? Mr. BILLINGS. That was just offhand, and it shows the percentage of Chinamen at that time, here at least, illegally was pretty large. Commissioner DELANO. What percentage? Mr. BILLINGS. I think it was 50 or 60 out of about 300. Mr. BUSIEK. And, as a matter of fact, a good many of those that were turned loose really ought to have been deported? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, some went off on bonds that we never saw afterwards. Commissioner DELANO. How many Chinese were there in the census? Mr. BILLINGS. In the country? Commissioner DELANO. No; in this district. Mr. BILLINGS. Oh, we did not get the Commissioner DELANO. I thought you tabbed them all up to that time. Commissioner O'CONNELL. Did you just go out haphazard and pick up 300? Mr. BILLINGS. Oh, no; I will tell you how it happened. There had been a fight between two Chinese factions, and there had been, I think, two or three murders committed, and there was to be a burial this Sunday afternoon. And the captain of police went to the United States attorney's office and asked— said they could not stop more murder and said there were a lot of Chinamen there illegally, and that they could not do anything unless the United States would come in. And the United States attorney advised us to get John Doe warrants at that time and arrest these fellows-men that could not show their right to be here. And we telegraphed to Washington and asked them-told them what we were going to do and asked for extra interpreters and in spectors, and they sent them on. And we rounded them up, and, as fast as they could show their proof, we let them go. And there was only, as I remember, two hurt. Mr. BUSIEK. Well, as a matter of fact, you sort of threw a net around the Chinamen? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. And when you worked them through, out of about 300 Chinamen examined you found there were between 50 and 60 that had no right to be here and they were deported? Mr. BILLINGS. I think that is about it. Mr. BUSIEK, And a number of others you failed to make the cases against them stand? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. And some escaped on bond? Mr. BILLINGS. I think so. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, that was indicative, then, of the large percentage of Chinese in this country who had no right to be here? Mr. BILLINGS. Absolutely. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you any reason to think that the percentage has fallen any since that time? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, I think-yes; I do. I think the department has been stricter and I think there has been more work done to keep them out. Of course, there were men-that was back-let's see, 11 or 12 years ago. Mr. BUSIEK. Do you have any better success now in getting Chinese deported whom you suspect than you did then? You say the department Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). I don't mean my department, you understand; but on account of the delays of courts, and so on. I should say no; we did not have any better success. Mr. BUSIEK. But you say you never made any kind of census in your district? Mr. BILLINGS. I don't think we did; I think we did during Mr. Shell's time make some kind of a census, but what it was I don't remember. Mr. BUSIEK. About how many Chinese did you find? Mr. BILLINGS. I don't remember. Mr. BUSIEK. More than a thousand, say, in Boston? Mr. BILLINGS. You see, our district is a pretty large district, and there are a lot of Chinamen in Connecticut and Rhode Island. I don't know whether Mr. McCabe ever tried to do that or not, but I have no idea. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you any method for exchange of information with other departments or other stations? For instance, if a Chinaman comes here from Chicago does the Chicago office notify you? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, they would not notify us unless we asked them for it, unless we found we had a man come from there and might ask for information, the same as we do in other immigration cases, or persons going to Chicago and we ask them to investigate it. Mr. BUSIEK. It seems to me that the Immigration service has gone to a whole lot of trouble furnishing these Chinese with identification cards. Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. And yet you do not keep any tab on these cards after they are once given out? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, we keep tab. We have a copy of them. Mr. BUSIEK. But this Chinaman is free to roam wherever he wants to, and just keep this identification card? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes. Mr. BUSIEK. And if that Chinaman should die-say he got his card in Boston, and he went from Boston to St. Louis Mr. BILLINGS. I see what you mean; but the picture would be on it. Mr. BUSIEK. But the Chinese show considerable skill in removing the pictures and putting others on? Mr. BILLINGS. But I do not think the way the pictures are made to-day they can do that. They would have to get somebody who looked pretty much like the picture itself. Mr. BUSIEK. Well, all the Chinese look pretty nearly alike. Isn't it a fact that you send up records right here from Boston, where the inspectors here decide that this picture identified a man and the department officers at Washington look at the picture and decide that it did not? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, I think our inspectors-I won't say for myself, because I acknowledge that I don't see enough of them and wouldn't pass on them-but I think our inspectors come pretty near telling. I don't mean in every case, but most cases. Mr. BUSICK. Well, don't the Chinese, for instance, take the certificate of a dead Chinaman and soak that picture off, and then paste another on, and make this Mr. BILLINGS (interrupting). I think that has been done; but I don't think they do it very much now with the new identification. Mr. BUSIEK. Is there any reason why it could not be done as easily with the new as with the old identification? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, I think these pictures and these markings on the certifi cate are such that it would be a good deal harder to do it. Mr. BUSIEK. Do you use any special paper? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir; it is a special paper. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, if Chinese students are admitted on the Pacific coast destined to your district, does the Pacific coast station which admits them notify you? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; I think they do. Mr. BUSIEK. And under the law it seems-or under the regulations of the immigration department it appears that these students must have sponsors or persons to vouch for their bona fides as student? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes. Mr. BUSIEK. Do you make any investigation of those people? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes; that is part of the inspectors duty, and then the report goes to Washington. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, if a batch of students are admitted on the Atlantic const and the sponsors for those students are scattered all over the country, what office will make investigation? Mr. BILLINGS. Well, the office in the district they come in. Mr. BUSIEK. Take the case, for instance, of the students admitted to Cushing Academy. Mr. BILLINGS. We made the investigation. Mr. BUSIEK. Your office here? Mr. BILLINGS. Mr. McCabe has got that thing in hand. There were 20 of them, as I remember it, and, as I remember it, Mr. McCabe, knowing the Cushing Academy, was the one that looked into it over there thoroughly. I don't think he really expected that they were going to stay there, but he has got all the facts and about how long they did stay there and where they disappeared to, and so forth, and so on. Mr. BUSIEK. These students came to Cushing Academy November 19, 1911, and left December 20, 1911? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes. Mr. BUSIEK. And the first correspondence which Mr. Cowell, the principal of Cushing Academy, had with your office, I believe, was a letter from you with the initials-it is initialed in the corner P. M. W.? Mr. BILLINGS. I can tell if I see the initials. The REPORTER. W. M. P. Mr. BUSIEK. W. M. P. Mr. BILLINGS. Well, isn't it down at the bottom something else? Mr. BUSIEK. I think it is a letter of December 6. Here is the letter. Mr. BILLINGS. McCabe is the one that wrote the letter. This down here in the corner is the stenographer; but this up here is the man that writes the letter. Mr. BUSIEK. So that letter was written by Mr. McCabe? Mr. BILLINGS. Yes, sir. We put in the initials in the corner. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, you knew at the time that these students were there-or knew at the time these letters were being written-generally what was going on? Mr. BILLINGS. Oh, yes; yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. And that letter of December 6, in referring to the woman who was to bring, or who had brought, the students over, that letter refers to her as an "alleged teacher of English in China." Now, do you remember of having any discussion with Mr. McCabe at that time and prior to the desertion of these students, as to whether or not they were bona fide students? some. Mr. BILLINGS. No; I did not; only on general principals I would have had It would have been a question in my mind and his mind, too, I think, that they were not, so many of them coming together, although, of course, Cushing Academy has always stood very high as a school. I never heard anything against it. 38819°-S. Doc. 415, 64-1-vol 7---3 |