Committee. There have been 2 or 3 preliminary meetings, and while no conclusion has been reached, there is evidence, good evidence, that the tolls will be agreed upon between the two countries, and that it is possible to establish a system of tolls which will have equity and usefulness and practical application.

Senator WILEY. On a reasonable basis of tolls, is it your judgment that, assuming your estimate as to the 50 million tons is correct, that will more than take care of the bond issue, including the charges and maintenance?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Yes, sir. The opinion is that we can pay off the indebtedness in 50 years and operate under a system of tolls which will not injure shipping, not set up an adverse condition which is detrimental to shipping.

COST OF THE SEAWAY

Senator WILEY. There has been some talk, and there must be some basis for it because we have had labor and material costs and now we have got steel costs up seven, eight, nine dollars a ton, whatever it is, as to the overall increase in costs of the St. Lawrence Waterway.

Have you any estimates what it is going to cost over the amount appropriated?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Mr. Harrill has just about finished an exact audit of our status. We have been affected by high prices. We have had costs escalating more sharply than we had anticipated, and the estimate indicates that the $105 million will become $122 million, but out of that there are about $12 million of contingencies which may not be spent if everything goes right. So we have a fixed figure of around $110 million in actual costs of the seaway.

Senator WILEY. Do you think that will take care of the increased wages, the increased overall costs of material, and so forth? Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Yes, sir.

Senator WILEY. If I remember rightly, you said you were going to get through on schedule.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. We will operate our new locks and facilities after July 1, 1958.

Senator WILEY. I have heard January 1, 1959.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. The Canadians will be ready with the opening of navigation in 1959, perhaps April 1, 1959.

Senator WILEY. Senator Dirksen?

Senator DIRKSEN. Mr. Oettershagen, exactly what navigation will be admitted as of July 1, 1958, when our portion of the works has been completed?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Just the 14-foot navigation which now plies the side canals on the Canadian side of the St. Lawrence, 14-foot navigation.

Senator DIRKSEN. Then what happens on January 1, 1959, when the corresponding Canadian works has been completed?"

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. That will be April 1, 1959. Then the ships. of the world, drawing 25 feet, having a length of 700 feet and a beam upward of 60 feet, will be able to transit the seaway. That is, the largest of the ore carriers and world shipping will navigate the improved seaway.

Senator DIRKSEN. However, I noticed by your chart over here the completion date on those connecting channels for Lakes Michigan, Huron, and Erie, runs down to June 1963; is that correct?

Mr. ÓETTERSHAGEN. Yes, sir; I believe that is correct.

Senator DIRKSEN. I note also there is safe draft after completion running from 21 feet to 23.5, or is it 25.5 feet?

Mr. ŎETTERSHAGEN. That is the present capacity.

Senator DIRKSEN. Yes. I was thinking in terms of the overall project, that is to say, up to the point that you would limit shipping up to these dates you gave us; but in order to bring the connecting channels into full effect, we would have to wait until 1963, and then we will be governed, of course, by the draft figures that are set forth on the chart?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Yes, sir.

Senator DIRKSEN. Is that correct?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Yes, sir. The draft, of course, will be standardized. You see, we will have guaranteed 27-foot channels throughout the seaway and the Great Lakes connecting channels.

Senator DIRKSEN. Right.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. And that means a guaranteed draft dimension of 25 feet. There are times when the available draft would be much more than that if it was desired to take advantage of it, of the conditions at the moment. But the point is that even in the interim, Senator, that as of the opening of the seaway, even though the connecting channels are not finished, we will have the benefit of the increase in depth from the present 14-foot draft to the 21-foot draft.

In other words, shipping will have an increased capacity available to them, even in the interim before the final completion of the channel deepening project.

Senator DIRKSEN. I assume that all the ports which will be affected by seaway shipping are conferring with the seaway authorities with respect to port improvement.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. They are, and we notice a very determined program of concern and investigation and even construction throughout the ports, especially the major ones.

Senator DIRKSEN. Can you amplify that a little and indicate what you are doing in individual cases?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. The port I speak of most frequently, perhaps, because of my better knowledge of it, is the port of Chicago, which is now engaged in the expenditure of some $24 million in the erection of a terminal development at the lower end of Lake Calumet in Chicago at the point where the barge traffic meets masted-vessel traffic, the masted-vessel traffic coming from the lakes and the barge traffic coming from the 15,000 miles of our internal waterways of the Mississippi River system.

One of the features of this $24 million development is that 2 elevators are being constructed of 62 million bushel capacity each, making a total of 13 million. On the river just 2 miles east of that point there has already been completed a new shipside elevator, having 6 million bushel capacity.

So as of the opening of the seaway, there will have been created there an additional 19 million bushels of shipside grain capacity. There also will be constructed a general cargo terminal.

Milwaukee has led all of the Great Lakes ports in its zeal and energy toward development of the seaway, and has done a tremendously fine piece of work in constructing harbor facilities at the mouth of the Milwaukee River and on the lakefront. They have really done very well, and they have set sort of a pattern for other Great Lakes cities.

The city of Toledo has recently completed a report in which it was recommended that a grain elevator be built.

And all of the ports along the lakes, and especially the principal ones, are concerned about what they can get out of the seaway, and we can have confidence that they will do what they need to do to take advantage of it.

The Corporation, sir, is very much concerned about that, because if the ports fail to generate the traffic we won't get the toll revenue essential to liquidation of our obligation.

Senator DIRKSEN. You observed a little while ago the Scandinavian countries were laying down vessels that would be peculiarly adapted to the seaway and seaway depth.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Yes, sir.

Senator DIRKSEN. Is that true of other countries?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Yes; it is, sir. I think the present vessel design is for the St. Lawrence seaway. That will set the pattern.

Senator DIRKSEN. Do the engineering explorations indicate any apparent difficulties that might delay completion? I am thinking, of course, of the Culebra Cut difficulties at the Panama Canal.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. No, sir; we have no such difficulty as that. But once we are completed, we have a very stable soil condition, and fortunately a very good rock condition on which to ground these various main structures. On the United States side it is fortunate that we don't have quite so much rock to dig through as the Canadians. They have a tremendous amount of rock excavation. We have had this heavy till, and have had difficulties, but they are the kind of difficulties that are normal in every big engineering project. We will have no abnormal behavior after the work is completed. Senator DIRKSEN. That is all.

DETROIT RIVER TRAFFIC COMPARED TO OTHER PORTS

Senator WILEY. You told us about the shipping that would be utilizing this canal. I would just like to get into the record here the amount of tonnage that goes through the Detroit River as compared with the great cities, the great ports, of America. Do you have that in mind?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Very roughly, sir. I think that the traffic through the Detroit area has reached in its peak as much as 125 to 130 million tons annually, and that the traffic through the St. Marys River and the Soo has reached 145 million tons annually.

Senator WILEY. How does that compare with New York Harbor and the other harbors?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. New York Harbor has around 150 million tons a year. It is a big port, there is no doubt about it. It is the daddy of them all.

Senator WILEY. How about Suez?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. I think the statement is still true, Senator, that the St. Marys River carries more than the traffic of the Suez and the Panama Canals, combined. I think that is still true, although recently the heavy tonnages moving via the Suez of oil have greatly changed that picture, even in the last 2 or 3 years, and we can no longer say "multiplied by 2,” as we had done as of 10 years ago.

UNITED STATES SHIPPING TO PROFIT FROM SEAWAY

Senator WILEY. Well, that relates to the United States shipping on the Great Lakes. Do you want to say anything further about that, United States-flag shipping?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. I think it is a pretty good point, Senator, too, and I should have brought it in, and I am sure it will be during the hearing.

I should say that the establishment of essential trade route No. 32, which will undoubtedly be followed by others as the need for them arises, is a great step forward in the stabilization of the traffic. We no longer need to suffer the accusation that this seaway is built entirely for foreign shipping. We may now say it is open to all shipping, because that makes available the American subsidies and assistance that shiping needs in order to compete.

I am sure that that will be followed by other announcements by the United States Maritime Administration. It was a very healthy, good thing to do.

Senator DIRKSEN. Mr. Oettershagen, this is not wholly relevant, but I noticed in the recent press accounts there is some pilot difficulty on the Suez Canal, and that it takes a long period of time to train a pilot even for a level canal like that. But in one of the news accounts they spoke about the lack of water pressures.

I am not at all sure that I understood what was meant there particularly, but would we consider similar difficulties here?

DIFFICULTIES OF NAVIGATING THROUGH NARROW LOCKS

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Not in that same degree. It must be admitted that in narrow channels the flow of the vessel has to be decreased because of the peculiar behavior of the wave that the ship creates against the side banks, and there is sort of a backwash against the ship..

I think that occurs on the Suez Canal, because they tow the ships there in large packs or clusters, as you might say. And as they begin to fill the width of the channel they would create a backwash_effect. It is necessary to sail slower and with more care in a narrow channel than in a wider one, and that would be true everywhere.

It would be necessary to slow up in our confined seaway channels, not so much in the American section as in the Canadian channel, where they have rock and they have reduced the width in the open earth and rock cut channels.

There could be a slowing down, a so-called drag against the vessel,. for two reasons: One is insufficient width and the other insufficient.

depth, because the squat of the vessel brings the propeller nearer the bottom, and that brings about a situation and condition that is adverse to the easy and safe operation of the vessel.

Senator WILEY. You have given us a picture, sir, which I think anyone would say would mean that the ports in Illinois, Wisconsin, and the other ports, will virtually become ocean ports.

For instance, along the west shore of Lake Michigan, the railroads will be pouring in from the West and the Middle West with farm products and industrial products, loading them on the ships to go to the four corners of the earth. I assume that will not only mean industrial health, but it will provide one of the great tourist routes of the world, will it not?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Yes, sir.

Senator WILEY. It will be one of the great sightseeing trips for any human being to take, which in itself, will provide toll revenue, and economic health for this whole area, what we call the valley of the St. Lawrence and the Great Lakes.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. That is so, sir.

When you consider that these Great Lakes hold half the fresh water of the earth, we really have something to brag about more than we ever do, sir, and your coastline is 8,500 miles long. That is the now fourth seacoast.

Senator WILEY. Is that the reason Milwaukee products are so famous?

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. I think so. And I think you would be pleased, sir, to see how well the Milwaukee district manufacturers are doing on our seaway contracts. They are building things for the power authority as well as for us.

I would like to make one more point if I may, and that is, whether or not we agree that the Mesabi Range for ore supply is becoming depleted, it must be admitted these fine steel producing factories on the lower margin of Lake Erie, and the ones at Youngstown and Pittsburgh and other places, will be stabilized because of the new supply of ore available from Seven Islands.

Senator WILEY. Don't forget the additional shipping of the taconite ore that is being developed.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. Yes, I think that will continue indefinitely. Senator WILEY. Yes.

Mr. OETTERSHAGEN. And I mean if there was anything that acted as a safeguard to our Great Lakes economy, it certainly is this seaway project.

Senator WILEY. We thank you very much, sir.

Does the Comptroller have anything to say?

Mr. HARRILL. No, sir.

Senator WILEY. General Berrigan, you have a statement, sir. Proceed.

STATEMENT OF BRIG. GEN. PAUL D. BERRIGAN, DIVISION ENGINEER, NORTH CENTRAL DIVISION, UNITED STATES CORPS OF ENGINEERS

General BERRIGAN. Senator Wiley, Senator Dirksen, ladies and gentlemen, I am going to speak on two subject. First, the connecting channels; and secondly, the Great Lakes harbors studies.