of the States were present, including Alaska and the District of Columbia, so this resolution is a part of our general federation program. Again I emphasize the plea, in the name of the General Federation and my own personal interest as a Philadelphian all my life, that this project may be developed and may have your careful and sincere consideration. It is indeed a worthy cause. Thank you very much. (At the direction of the chairman, the resolution referred to by Mrs. Ketterer is made a part of the record, as follows:

ESTABLISHMENT OF AN INDEPENDENCE HALL NATIONAL HISTORICAL PARK

Whereas the Independence Hall Association, formed as a nonprofit organization, was founded July 4, 1942, by local, State, and national services and civicminded individuals for the purpose of saving historical structures in old Philadelphia and improving their surroundings; among these being the outstanding shrine of America, Independence Hall, where the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States were signed, and where rests the Liberty Bell; and

Whereas Independence Hall and its flanking buildings-Old City Hall and Old Congress Hall-have been maintained by the city of Philadelphia, not only for the benefit of that city, but for the Nation, and all the peoples of the world; and

Whereas these famous buildings and the historic square in which they stand have been recently designated by the Federal Government as a national and historical site, and further cooperation from the Government should now be secured: Therefore be it

Resolved, That the General Federation of Women's Clubs in convention assembled, April 1944, heartily endorses the purpose of the Independence Hall Association to safeguard this American shrine, to improve its surroundings by demolition of dangerous and unsightly buildings, and to develop in their places landscaped' areas and proper accessories, affording dignified approaches to the hallowed 、 grounds on which are located these and other notable historical buildings, thus enshrining the symbol of freedom and liberty for the world; and be it further Resolved, That the General Federation of Women's Clubs urges its members and all citizens to do everything in their power to assist in bringing about this desirable result, and request the Committee on the Public Lands of the House of Representatives to give favorable consideration to the establishment of a national park in, the old part of the city' of Philadelphia, for the purpose of preserving the historical buildings therein. Presented by:

Mrs. GUSTAV KETTERER, Chairman, War Service Department. Judge LEWIS. May I introduce Magistrate John L. Coyle, of Philadelphia, who is president of the Commodore John Barry United States Navy Society of Philadelphia. You gentlemen have seen the monument to Commodore Barry here in Independence Square. Magistrate Coyle will speake to you briefly.

STATEMENT OF JOHN L. COYLE, PRESIDENT OF THE COMMODORE JOHN BARRY UNITED STATES NAVY SOCIETY

Mr. COYLE. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, I was a little hesitant about coming down here because of the fact that our society is more or less interested in Commodore John Barry. As Judge Lewis just said, a statue of Commodore Barry has been erected in Independence Square and it is the only statue within the square-the other one is on the outside, a statue of George Washington.

Our society, like the P. O. S. of A. and the others, comes here merely for a patriotic purpose. As Mr. Helms said to you, he was not in

terested in the fact that someone may lose a little money by the fact that there will have to be some confiscations of property. He has told you of their property that was taken from them out in Valley Forge, and that also $35,000 was taken along with it which, of course, is helping to maintain those headquarters up there. So we are here concerned from the patriotic standpoint of maintaining our interest in the forefathers of this Republic, of whom Commodore John Barry represents the American Navy, and we must certainly want to remember our Navy today and in the future.

I also would like to bring this to the attention of the committee that the resting place not only of Commodore John Barry but many of the Revolutionary heroes, while they are not a part of this plan, are in the immediate vicinity of this plan and are very closely connected with it. I think, however, that they should all be included in the plan. Commodore Barry is buried in St. Mary's Church graveyard. Haym Salomon is buried near here, as is also Benjamin Franklin and many others, and they should be included in this plan. In fact, after listening to Mr. Hopkinson and looking at his model here, while all of these historic buildings which he mentioned are included, I would like to call your attention to the fact that you do not have a single religious edifice in your plan as it now exists.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean the present plan or outline?

Mr. COYLE. You do not have a religious edifice in your entire plan as it has been outlined here, and that is something that ought to be corrected.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe mention was made that the Old Friends' Church was included. Is not that so, Judge Lewis?

Judge LEWIS. In the proposed area of the park there is included the Free Quaker Meetinghouse, which is right near by, on Arch Street. Then just to the east, here, is Christ Church. Down here is old St. Joseph's Church, in Willing's Alley, and old St. Peter's Church. However, those last that I have mentioned are not in the park area.

The CHAIRMAN. But it is my understanding that the Friends' Church or Meetinghouse is included?

Judge LEWIS. Yes.

Mr. COYLE. Let them be included in the plan.

Judge LEWIS. The Free Quaker Meetinghouse, which is included in the plan, would not be taken over by the Federal Government, because they want to retain it themselves. However, it would be in the park. I think it is particularly appropriate that that is so, inasmuch as Pennsylvania was founded by the Friends, I think it is appropriate that we have that one religious building in the plan. The others are all right near by.

Mr. COYLE. I think it should be in the plan and I think the Friends would be very glad to have it included in the plan.

Judge LEWIS. But they do not want it destroyed.

Mr. BRADLEY. The Quaker Meetinghouse would be right adjacent to the area of the park?

Judge LEWIS. It is within the area of the park.

Mr. BRADLEY. It could be condemned?

Judge LEWIS. Oh, no. They are perfectly willing to have it incorporated and do not ask for any compensation or anything like that.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT A. MITCHELL, OF THE PHILADELPHIA CITY PLANNING COMMISSION

Mr. MITCHELL. Gentlemen, my name is Mitchell and I came to Philadelphia as an expert in charge of city planning. I happen to be a Hoosier, but I am a Philadelphian now. This little model which Mr. Hopkinson brought here is a model that we had made up to show the locations of these historical buildings around Independence Hall so that it would help in a study of the plan. It is not a plan, gentlemen, it is merely a model of the buildings that are already there in this particular location.

Mr. COYLE. Well, we have to have religion in it.

The CHAIRMAN. That's right.

Mr. COYLE. We have to have them all in it.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that the Friends would rather retain their own meetinghouse, rather than have it taken over by the Federal Government. However, it would be included.

Judge LEWIS. I will next present Mr. Clarence Zantzinger, president of the Philadelphia City Parks Association and one of the most noted architects in America.

STATEMENT OF CLARENCE ZANTZINGER, PRESIDENT,

PHILADELPHIA CITY PARKS ASSOCIATION

Mr. ZANTZINGER. Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the committee, I come before you, as Judge Lewis has said, as president of the Philadelphia City Parks Association, an organization that has for the past 75 years in Philadelphia been very strongly in favor of the city maintaining parks throughout the city.

It would be using up your time in an unwarranted fashion to attempt to stress the patriotic importance, the historical importance of these various buildings that we have been talking about. It is selfevident that they are landmarks, they are the shrines of the country, and that they must be preserved goes without saying.

From another point of view, their preservation and their protection is bound to be assured by the development of this great vista to the north of Independence Hall.

The CHAIRMAN. You agree that in their present situation there is a considerable fire hazard?

Mr. ZANTZINGER. We are in the city of Philadelphia, and America is known for its fires. Our record of fires is much greater than that of any of the nations of the Old World. That is the reason, I suppose, that we have such very fine fire departments in America-because they are needed so. This is the very picture of a conflagration, and the protection for that area to the north should be carried out. From the point of view of our association, we are particularly interested, of course, in this project because we want to see more open spaces for the use of the public in this neighborhood, and it would be of the greatest advantage, without the slightest question. That is why I urge it upon you, and from the standpoint of historical interest, as well.

Judge LEWIS. One of the most charming of Philadelphia women is now to be presented here, Mrs. Nicholas G. Roosevelt. Mrs. Roosevelt.

STATEMENT OF MRS. NICHOLAS G. ROOSEVELT

Mrs. ROOSEVELT. Gentlemen, I think you are probably already entirely convinced of the importance of this idea.

We are told that God walks in a garden, and I think we are going to need God more than ever, now.

In the second place, I feel that at this moment, with our boys fighting with such wonderful courage and desperation for liberty, that liberty is going to be more sacred than ever to us and that, therefore, there ought to be a garden here that would be an inspiration to the whole world.

I would like to interject a personal note and say that although my voice gives me away, you can tell that I am southern. Strangely enough, my forebears all lived on Walnut Street, just opposite Independence Hall, where my father was born. I, therefore, have not only a personal interest but I have this passionate feeling of faith in the city of Philadelphia and what we have stood for. I hope you are going to help us with our problem.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Judge LEWIS. Mrs. Roosevelt returned last night from her plantation in South Carolina and brought that South Carolina accent with her.

The CHAIRMAN. I recognized it. I am a South Carolinian myself, and I am related to the Lowries of Union County, Miss Lowrie.

Judge LEWIS. I now have the greatest pleasure in calling upon a representative of the Carpenters Company, the company that owns and controls Carpenters Hall, a gentleman who is always willing to cooperate with any national commission in the development of this area. I present Mr. John P. Hallahan, formerly a president of the Carpenters Company.

STATEMENT OF JOHN P. HALLAHAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE CARPENTERS COMPANY

Mr. HALLAHAN. Gentlemen, it is a pretty safe bet that when Judge Lewis asks me to get up and speak, that the meeting is about ready to close.

Judge LEWIS. No, no.

Mr. HALLAHAN. And I want to say hello to our Congressman, back there. I have one very good friend there.

In all modesty, I do not think that there is any organization in Philadelphia better qualified to either approve or disapprove of what you are saying here. To be as brief as possible, I will say that these plans have been very carefully studied by us. There are probably 35 members left of this organization that was founded. 221 years ago-I do not mean they are original members, although I am probably nearer to that than the others. I was a practical builder, of more than usual patience and tolerance for artists and architects, and I want to tell you that I know these men and I know their reputations, and I have worked off their plans, I have built from their plans, and what you see here has been very, very carefully built.

I will say that the Carpenters Company-and as far as Carpenters' Hall is concerned, some of them like to regard themselves as the

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owner of Carpenters' Hall, but I am one of those who regard the Carpenters Company as the custodian of Carpenters' Hall. We cannot have a very great claim to it, because we only pay a dollar a year dues and we get four means that cost $4 apiece, so I think we should not say that we own anything. But we are all intensely interested in any improvements to the Independence Hall area-the statehouse, as we call it. I was raised almost within the shadow of this building and we always refer to it as the statehouse.

I think I could talk more eloquently on this matter if there was some opposition to it, but I have heard none here today, and being of an argumentative nature, and Irish, I get rather cooled off a little bit. But I hope that you gentlemen will take all that you have heard here today as typical of the feeling of Philadelphians for this shrine. We of the Carpenters Company really feel that without the existence of Carpenters' Hall at that time, perhaps this affair that took place right here would have been delayed a while. The eagle might have screamed had he been the emblem of liberty at that time, but when you all get right down to it, Carpenters' Hall was the place where they gathered and where it took a lot of courage to get up and defy the King. It also took equal courage for the landlords who were the owners of Carpenters' Hall to allow a gang like Patrick Henry and Benjamin Franklin and a few other renegades and rebels to gather in there and damn His Majesty, as they did in no uncertain terms.

It so happens that I represented the Carpenters Company at the inception of this project. I am now a past president, one of the 219 presidents, and I have attended 'the meetings that have been held and was glad of the opportunity to participate in the plans for this project.

Mr. Hopkinson has told you about the conditions surrounding Carpenters' Hall, and they really are a menace and remind me of that song which was recently published, but which this hall must have sung, if halls could sing, the song that was written by this westerner, Please, Don't Fence Me In. That would have been the theme song of Carpenters' Hall. It is fenced around with all kinds of fire hazards, and you have to go up an alley to get in and you never know whether you are going to get out again.

Mr. BARRETT. Just as you arrive at that point, when we go back we have to report to men who apparently may never get a vision of what that approach might be to Carpenters' Hall from Chestnut Street. Would you give us your idea of the width of that entrance from Chestnut Street? Would it be possible for vehicles to get in or out? Mr. HALLAHAN. The entry into Carpenters' Hall from Chestnut Street, which is on the south side, is about 16 feet wide. I think that fire apparatus could possibly get in there, but it would have a very difficult time operating in there. I have some pictures here that may interest the members of the committee. These photographs will show you what the situation is.

(Mr. Hallahan then showed the photographs referred to to the members of the committee and explained the same to them.)

Mr. HALLAHAN. You can see from that that there exists there a very dangerous fire hazard, and aside from that, the Carpenters' Hall is now in a setting, surrounded by architecture of a type which does not show it up in a very favorable light. You have to look down a funnel,