Mr. BRADLEY. You go further than saying that the chamber of commerce has endorsed a commission to be appointed 'for its investigation?

Mr. HOLSTROM. Well, they have endorsed the suggestion that a commission be appointed to set up plans. That is the last word on it. They recognize that a commission will first have to be appointed, but as a matter of fact the chamber are for this plan, recognizing that your commission is the first necessity, and they ask that that commission be appointed.

Mr. BRADLEY. May I accept your statement as a definite endorsement by the chamber of commerce not only of my bill which proposes a commission to study the plan, but an actual endorsement of the plan itself for the establishment of an Independence National Park in Philadelphia?

Mr. HOLSTROM. Yes.

Mr. BRADLEY. Am I correct?

Mr. HOLSTROM. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Your organization has approved the general plan? Mr. HOLSTROM. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Holstrum, you have developed one thing, in your remarks, and that is that there is a fire hazard right now in the present situations of Independence and Congress Halls, and the development of this plan will do away with a great portion of that fire hazard?

Mr. HOLSTROM. Our first plan was to remove the fire hazard and the second to improve the vista here so that we have something more appropriate than a few buildings situated within a city block.

The CHAIRMAN. There was a recent fire, I understand, which endangered Old Swedes' Church?

Judge LEWIS. There were two of them.

The CHAIRMAN. And it was just fortunate that they did not reach the church itself.

Mr. BRADLEY. As a matter of fact, we are all being severely criticized in Philadelphia and in Washington for being so derelict for so many years with respect to that very situation around the Old Swedes Church.

Judge LEWIS. That statement, Mr. Holstrom, is on record, the chamber of commerce is whole-heartedly in back of this project. No doubt about that?

Mr. HOLSTROM. No doubt of it.

Judge LEWIS. May I now present Mr. Walter M. Phillips, president of the Citizens Council on City Planning? Mr. Phillips.

Mr. WALTER M. PHILLIPS. Honored committee of Congress: It is hard to know in what capacity one comes here to speak to you. As I am a citizen of I see it today, we are citizens four times over. Philadelphia. I am a citizen of Pennsylvania. I am a citizen of the United States and I am a citizen of the world, and on the many questions involved here, in what capacity should one speak to you? I would like to speak as an individual. I happen to be president of an organization called the Citizens Council on City Planning, which is a federation of 88 organizations of the city, business associations and labor groups, local community organizations and professional groups. We work through our member organizations and we

take no position until a majority of our organizations have taken a position in the matter. We have as yet taken no position in this matter, but, however, I have every reason to believe that all of our organizations will endorse the project when it is put before them. Hence, as the Citizens Council on City Planning has taken no position in the matter, I appear here as an individual, and I would like to talk, first, as a citizen of the United States because I think that is the way this project should interest us, as I am sure it is the way which interests our Congressmen.

As a citizen of the United States, this seems to be a most appropriate time that Independence Hall should be improved and made a greater national shrine than it is now. We are going through a time similar to the Revolutionary days, in the drafting of our own Constitution, so that if visitors come to this country, and I am sure that there will be many such, I think it is very important that the Independence Hall should be presented to those visitors in a more pleasant and impressive vista.

From the standpoint of a citizen of Philadelphia, I feel that any objections raised-and one of the objections which have been raised was a material question, and I refer to the question of taxes, whether or not Philadelphia will lose some valuable land because of this project, to my mind that is practically irrelevant. In the first place, I do not think we will lose the taxable value of the land becausse I think that the other land around about will increase many times more in value than would have been the case if this project were not consummated.

The CHAIRMAN. That has been proven from history. That has been borne out in other communities.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Well, if Philadelphia should lose a little, why, it would seem to me to be a small contribution to this patriotic project.

From the standpoint of being a citizen of the world-and I think these citizenships are important and should be kept separate--I would like to see this project entirely divorced from the question of whether the United Nations are invited to come to Philadelphia to make this a world capital. That might mean that there are too many contingencies in that question. Perhaps Russia would not like to have the world capital here any more than we would like to have the world capital in Leningrad. When I think back to the struggle that we had in Washington's day, whether the capital of the United States should be here or somewhere in Virginia and the way that was worked out, I realize that that is a very nebulous idea. Philadelphia with humility tenders its resources to the world.

The CHAIRMAN. This project was conceived long before there had been any thought in connection with that latest idea.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Precisely so, Mr. Chairman, and that is why in my opinion this project should be carried through divorced from the idea of a world capital.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Judge LEWIS. I know the ladies will be a little patient because these gentlemen have to get back to important business meetings.

I would like to present to you who is one of our outstanding citizens, Mr. Edward Hopkinson, Jr., chairman of the commission on city planning. Mr. Hopkinson.

Mr. EDWARD HOPKINSON, Jr. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, it is a great privilege and opportunity to come here, not only as chairman of the city planning commission but by their special instruction at a meeting of the commission held yesterday afternoon I was directed to appear at your hearing this morning and assure you of the most complete support of the city planning commission on behalf of the project which you are considering here for the city of Philadelphia and for the Nation as a whole.

The city planning commission is a body appointed by the mayor of Philadelphia, pursuant to legislative authorization, and it is the responsibility of that commission to outline long-range plans for the development of this area, and submit them to the mayor and to the council for their consideration and for the necessary legislative enactments to carry then into effect.

The consummation of a project such as has been recommended to you in Congressman Bradley's bill is a vital part not only in creating this national shrine but in giving stimulus to the redevelopment of an important historical area in the city of Philadelphia. You have had presented to you the maps and the architect's drawings particularly on the proposed development north of Chestnut Street. We have brought here, and now present for your consideration, a scale drawing model of the area east of Independence Square. Probably if it were to be put with relation to the geographical lay-out, it would look this way. You are now holding this hearing in the building on the extreme northwest of the group. Independence Square and the Barry Statue are in here and the State House between Sixth and Fifth Streets here on Chestnut Street. Then taking the area east of· Fifth Street, you have here the Second Bank of the United States, later used as a customhouse. Fifth Street goes over the area here, and back of Fifth Street and away from Chestnut Street, surrounded by these buildings which, to say the least, are not in architectural keeping with the surroundings, is the historical Carpenters' Hall. Then further east, between Fourth and Fifth Streets, is the First Bank of the United States, and fronting on Third Street it could lend itself to an admirable development with the new United States Customs House on the east end of the group at Second and Chestnut Streets. One old building that is distinctly in the old produce district of Philadelphia, later used as a stock exchange, is shown on the left of the model. There are other structures in this area which probably should not be cleared and which probably would not interfere with either the removal of the fire hazard or the architectural setting of the remaining buildings. That would be a matter for future determination. But a great deal of the structures in this whole area shown on the model are admittedly a fire hazard and serve no useful purpose. Mr. LECOMPTE. Are there any of any particular historical value? Mr. HOPKINSON. I believe not. They are all buildings of a much later date with the possible exception of this produce exchange which is itself more or less typical of colonial architecture.

There is now pending in the Pennsylvania Legislature a so-called urban redevelopment bill which would lend itself to the determination by the city for the redevelopment in an appropriate way of the areas bordering on such a national park shrine, such as might create and insure the ability of the city to create appropriate surroundings

outside the area of the shrine park itself. The city, I believe, has ample powers of zoning as to future construction in that area and the planning commission has also given consideration to the problem of street transportation, and we believe without any dislocation of convenience to the public or business interests, the transportation lines through and surrounding this area could be rearranged to give a maximum of usefulnesss to the park shrine area and the kind of structures that would surround it.

We therefore pledge you on behalf of the planning commission of the fullest cooperation in developing this to maximum usefulness and beauty and as a memorable project for the national interests.

Mr. BARRETT. After the demolition of these deteriorated buildings, this is exactly what the public will see when they come to Philadelphia?

Mr. HOPKINSON. Yes.

Mr. BARRETT. The purpose of this plan is to move these historical buildings so that they can be seen readily?

Mr. HOPKINSON. The purpose of the plan is to show their location to each other within a relatively small area.

The CHAIRMAN. A great deal has been said as to the existence of a fire hazard at the present time.

Mr. HOPKINSON. I do not think there is any question of it.

The CHAIRMAN. I was readily impressed with that myself and that was the reason I wanted to develop that phase of it because some of the members of our committee will not be able to see it as we

can.

Mr. HOPKINSON. There is no question but that the type of building that surrounds it in this area would lend itself to the kind of a conflagration which could not be confined within its own boundaries.

The CHAIRMAN. A wind blowing in this direction at the time of a fire would naturally endanger Congress Hall and Independence Hall? Mr. HOPKINSON. Oh, there is no doubt of that.

The CHAIRMAN. And nothing but good fortune or the Lord could prevent that.

Mr. HOPKINSON. I am afraid that the city fire department, efficient as it is, would be at a disadvantage.

Mr. BRADLEY. Would you say that it is your belief and that this committee would have a right to assume that in connection with any plans which the State might undertake or that the city might undertake, that there would be an agreement, an amicable agreement, with the Federal Government in regard to anything that might be contemplated?

Mr. HOPKINSON. I happen to be a member of the State postwar planning commission and we have been working very closely with the city of Philadelphia and with other communities throughout the State in other matters that affected these local communities so that there will not be conflict or cross-purpose activities. I am sure that the position of the State postwar planning commission would be such as to cooperate in every way with both the Federal Government and with the city of Philadelphia in everything, particularly anything that was to the interest of Philadelphia. Already there has been cooperation between the city and the State at the moment in the development of the highway system and in the cleansing and purification of our

streams. Highway development would be an important aspect, of course, in this, and I am sure that you can count on the close of the city and the State in those fields.

cooperation

Mr. LECOMPTE. Where is Carpenters' Hall on the model? Mr. HOPKINSON. This little red building. It sits about 150 feet back from Chestnut Street.

Mr. BARRETT. Would there be any chance of its catching fire? Mr. HOPKINSON. I think Carpenters' Hall is the most vulnerable of all these buildings because it has less open space around it.

Judge LEWIS. May I now present Mr. Charles B. Helms, State secretary of the Patriotic Order Sons of America? I may say that Mr. Helms and his organization have been members of the Independence Hall Association since its founding and Mr. Helms has brought in to us innumerable members throughout the State and the country.

STATEMENT OF CHARLES B. HELMS, SECRETARY OF THE
PATRIOTIC ORDER OF THE SONS OF AMERICA

Mr. CHARLES B. HELMS. Gentlemen of the committee, I approve this proposal entirely because of the fact that it is a purely unselfish proposition from every standpoint. So that you may understand what our organization is, I will say that it is 98 years old and its main purpose has been the preservation of historical landmarks and the promotion of American ideals and principles. We have 800 units in this State with upward of a hundred thousand members. They meet weekly and the entire discussion of their meetings is devoted to American patriotism along the broadest lines and the preservation of historical landmarks and the promotion of American ideals.

I might say for your information that we at one time owned Washington's headquarters at Valley Forge, with a group of women from Chester and Montgomery Counties, until the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania decided to make that a State park and the building was condemned and taken away from us by legal means. We had a fund of $35,000 that we had raised to maintain this building and the interest on this $35,000 still maintains Washington's headquarters at Valley Forge. Later on the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania turned over to us General Reynolds' headquarters at Valley Forge and that is now maintained by our organization. We also own and maintain an acre of ground at Washington's Crossing, at the exact spot where Washington crossed the Delaware, and have erected a monument there in the midst of the State farm. We are strong in North Carolina and in several States along the eastern seaboard, but in Pennsylvania we are exceptionally strong and we certainly endorse this movement that is under consideration here because we are interested in the glorification of American ideals and traditions and we feel that they ought to be preserved for posterity. As a representative of the Patriotic Order Sons of America we want to register our complete endorsement of this proposal and that means that 100,000 members endorse it 100 percent. Judge LEWIS. Mr. Atwater Kent, Jr., who is to be your host at dinner tonight, is president of the Atwater Kent Museum, which is a municipal museum and the repository of things relating to early Philadelphia. I present now Mr. Kent.