looking toward the preservation of these sacred American shrines, and I am sure that you agree with us that they should be permanent and enduring, and their surroundings beautified and expanded as we want you to do. [Applause.]

Judge LEWIS. Gentlemen, I think that this is an appropriate time to introduce another note in the presentation of argument. I want to present to you a man who has been most dynamic in his support of this project from the beginning, a young man whom I welcome into the movement because he was such an active force in getting Congressman Sacks years ago to introduce a somewhat similar bill. His name is Isidor Ostroff, and he served in the Pennsylvania Legislature, began his public career as a young Democrat here about 12 or 13 years ago, and I cannot tell you how much assistance he has rendered to our association. He has made innumerable journeys to Washington. He has been down there several times with me, and he is always ready to help, and he will say a word to you from the viewpoint of one who resides right here in old, historic Philadelphia, in Congressman Bradley's district.

STATEMENT OF ISIDOR OSTROFF, ESQ., FORMER MEMBER OF

Mr. OSTROFF. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, those of us who live down here in this neighborhood look upon these buildings as a sacred shrine. They are always a shrine to us. At a matter of fact, every time I pass Independence Hall I feel guilty if I do not tip my hat, and anybody who ever catches me passing without tipping my hat, I have always said I would pay $10 to. I have paid that sum of $10 only once, and I do not know how I let that happen that time. We organized a movement some time ago and circulated petitions that were presented to Congressman Sacks, who then took charge of preparing this bill which has been drafted and redrafted and which is now in the form in which you have it in your committee. We feel 'that this view should be changed. We feel that this site should be beautified. This is a sacred spot, a shrine, and as Mr. McCracken "said to you, it is one of the jewels of democracy. I cannot trace my ancestry in this country back as far as most of you gentlemen, but I am of the first generation of the family that was born here. But this is the only country I know. This is the only form of government I know, and I love it. These things mean something to me and they mean something to you and to all of us, and they mean a great deal to all the folks of the neighborhood who come from the same section of Europe from which my family came. Sometimes I feel that perhaps they mean more to those who have come here recently than they do to those whose ancestors came here so long ago. These recent arrivals have fled from oppression, but you have been used to freedom. Generations of your families have been used to freedom. But nevertheless these buildings and what they stand for are enshrined not only in the hearts of the people here, but in the minds and hearts of everybody in the whole world. This is the center of liberty for the whole world. I have not heard anybody here mention that the Czechoslovakian Republic was founded right here in Independence Hall. That is a historic fact. That little Republic of Czechoslovakia which was so cruelly

crushed by Hitler. They did that, they founded their nation here because of sentimental thoughts and because of the historic significance of the documents that were framed here, and whose spirit was so vividly impressed upon them. This is the shrine of liberty for the whole world, and I am sure that we can start a new freedom, a new democracy, a new union of nations for all peoples right in this group of buildings here.

We Philadelphians have made an effort in that direction. There is a great movement on foot to bring the Council of the United Nations to this hallowed spot. We have sent people to Washington, sent them to the Secretary of State, and we intend to send somebody out to San Francisco to present our case, and this is the place for it, next to these buildings here. But they are not properly protected at the present. time. They are not properly cherished, and they are not properly reverenced, because of that, as they should be. Now these buildings to the north of Independence Hall, they stand in the way of proper recognition of the beauties of this shrine, and yet they take no real part in the life of our community today. When we tear down those various buildings, then we will have the space and the area in which to beautify these surroundings. Through the zoning commission we were able to accomplish a little of this idea when they tore down some of the buildings close to Carpenters' Hall for the purpose of making parking lots out of them. They placed a little house there, where the custodian sits, built along colonial lines to fit in with the aspect of these colonial structures, and now Carpenters' Hall as it appears. from Fourth Street, will not have such a disastrous appearance even if there is an automobile parking lot that lies just next to it a little ways. I am sure that our zoning commission, when we would build this mall from Independence Hall up to the Delaware River Bridge, would see to it that there were places where automobiles could be parked, people who come to visit this shrine, and they would see to it that this colonial atmosphere is preserved.

After listening to what Judge Lewis and the others have so eloquently said to you, I am sure that you cannot do anything but recommend to your general committee that they ask that this commission be appointed.

I am grateful that you gentlemen have come to Philadelphia to sit here in Congress Hall, because I know that these very surroundings will so impress your minds that you can go back and recommend with full unanimity to the Federal Government that they take their full share in the preservation, protection, and beautification of this great American shrine. And the city of Philadelphia will take its. full share of the responsibility as well. I want to say to you that this is not a political issue of any sort, because otherwise we could have neved had Mayor Samuel agree to sign this agreement with the Secretary of the Interior. This project has nothing to do with the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. It is an American project. We are all Americans first, and members of a political party next.

Gentlemen, please recommend to your committee that this bill be reported out as soon as possible. [Applause.]

Judge LEWIS. Gentlemen, let me say to you that we could have

filled this room with a great number of citizens, if we had felt that that was the kind of argument you desired. We have in our membership in the Independence Hall Association individuals and organi zations that run into the hundreds, and we could have had those hundreds of members and representatives of those organizations in this room if we had felt that that was what you wanted.

The CHAIRMAN. Judge, we have received a great number of resolutions from various organizations, not only in Philadelphia but in other parts of the country, and they will receive due and careful attention.

Judge LEWIS. I might say to you that Mr. Zimmerman has just handed me a little memorandum to the effect that Mr. Adolph Ochs, when he owned the Public Ledger that was published just across the street here, advocated the very thing that we are now proposing to do. I did not know that. I have had many meetings with Mr. Ochs in the old days, in the editorial room across the way, but I didn't know that.

Now gentlemen, after asking you to hear Mrs. Lloyd, we will come down to the technical aspects of this matter. Then I will introduce to you Mr. Sidney Martin, an architect of merit, and the president of the Fairmount Park Art Association. That association interests itself in parks all over this community. Then I will ask Mr. Leroy Larson, architect of the association, the last speaker, to bring to your attention several other points dealing with the technical aspect. But first may I introduce to you a woman who has recently been given the Gimbel Award in Philadelphia as the outstanding woman of the year, one who made the greatest contribution to Philadelphia life, and that contribution was many sided. The outstanding thing that she has done, I think, has been to organize, build up, and operate from day to day, the American Red Cross section engaged in making delivery of packages to our prisoners of war. And she has built it up from nothing to the gigantic proportion that it has today. Mrs. Lloyd was for many years president of the Colonial Dames. She has been the head of so many organizations that it would be needless to call them off to you. But the outstanding contribution that she has made in the last year was recognized when the women of Philadelphia voted her this Gimbel Award. Mrs. Stacy B. Lloyd, vice president of the Independence Hall Association. Mrs. Lloyd. The CHAIRMAN. Mrs. Lloyd, it is indeed a pleasure to have you appear before us.

STATEMENT OF MRS. STACY B. LLOYD, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE INDEPENDENCE HALL ASSOCIATION

Mrs. LLOYD. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I think that Judge Lewis has introduced me especially because I have been for many, many years deeply interested in these wonderful old patriotic buildings that we have here. This is a national shrine that we in Philadelphia have taken so for granted that we almost forgot that it belonged to the Nation and not to us particularly. I am quite ready to do anything that I can to foster this project, and I feel that we should have this land to the north of Independence Hall one way or

the other. Then we can have that magnificent setting that these glorious old buildings deserve.

If I could only bring home to you the reverence that people have for Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell. If you could see, as I have seen, these foreigners who come down here and these new American citizens, kissing the Liberty Bell, with tears of gratitude running down their faces, and you cannot help but wonder at the depth of feeling that these people have, until you realize that never before have they had that liberty and that freedom which these things around here represent to us. I happen to be a descendant of Capt. Samuel Morris, who was captain of the First Troop of the Philadelphia City Cavalry, George Washington's bodyguard, and that is perhaps the reason why I have so deeply embedded in my heart love for this shrine which, though it does belong to Philadelphia, also belongs to the United States and to the whole world. This is the shrine of independence.

At the time of the celebration of the Sesquicentennial of the signing of the Constitution, that hall was given to the Pennsylvania Society of Colonial Dames for their meeting. You know a great deal is always said about the Declaration of Independence, but this was the signing of the Constitution, the framing of that immortal document, which was being celebrated. And I am sure that you would feel as I did when I sat there in that room, looking through the doorway and having that beautiful view of where Washington sat-that then you, too, would have realized that that was the day on which the Constitution of the United States came into being, 1787, on May 20. All the flags of the States were there all around the room, not only the flags of our States, but the flags of all of the South American republics, and there were many, many representatives of people from those republics to our south. And they were in that room with us, celebrating that day. It was the first day that we had a quorum, at the time that the Constitution was signed, back in that session in 1787-and it is such a historic setting. A no more patriotic purpose could be imagined than that which we are here advocating today. If you gentlemen could only see the crowds of children who come here at times. And the people that come in automobiles to visit Independence Hall. There is no parking place, there is nothing, and yet this is the greatest shrine in America. That is why I feel personally a great responsibility to do all I can to see that this place is not only perpetuated, but safeguarded, beautified, and preserved, not only as a shrine for America but as a shrine for all of the living peoples of the world. Thank you, gentlemen. [Applause.].

The CHAIRMAN. It is indeed a pleasure to have heard from you, Mrs. Lloyd.

Judge LEWIS. I have referred to Mr. Martin as being engaged as a professional architect. That is his vocation, but his avocation is the head of the Fairmount Park Art Association. May I say further in introducing Mr. Martin that it was the Fairmount Park Art Association who got together the material and printed the booklet that was presented to you today, and it cost that association several thousands of dollars. Mr. Martin has always recognized the necessity of this project, so as to have a proper setting for Independence Hall, and he has always been one of our strongest supporters. Mr. Martin.

STATEMENT OF SIDNEY E. MARTIN, HEAD OF FAIRMOUNT PARK ART ASSOCIATION

Mr. MARTIN. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I do not know that I can add anything to what has been said to you this afternoon so eloquently by the previous witnesses, but I will try to talk a little from the point of view of an architect. The architects of Philadelphia have always naturally been champions of these great shrines that we have here. We appreciate their historical significance, as does any normal citizen, but we also have an interest esthetically and architecturally. I doubt whether there is another group of Georgian buildings in this country that are as perfect from the point of view of their physical characteristics than this group that you have been hearing about this afternoon. It is very fortunate for our Nation that their erection came at a time when perhaps architecture was in one of its most superlative periods, and we have reaped the benefits of having symbols representing the foundation of our country, of something that could have stood alone on its own artistic merits.

Now, a great deal has been said, and justly so, about the Independence Hall group, and perhaps not enough has been said about the other minor two great buildings that are on the lesser axis. I happened to be chairman of the Committee of the American Institute of Architects in 1931, and we suffered then from somewhat of a depression, and to help unemployed members we got a sum of around $25.000 to $30,000 together I think there were about 25 in all who subscribed to this fund, and then these members who were out of work make this map of old Philadelphia, which covers the old traditional section. It was while working on that map that it occurred to the small committee which had been organized what a wonderful opportunity it would be to tie this little area of buildings together that consists of the First and Second Banks of the United States, Carpenters' Hall, and the Commercial Exchange at the corner. It was then that Mr. Gilford, representing us, made the first plans for this proposition. As to Carpenters' Hall, that building as you know is where the First Continental Congress met. It is a perfect gem architecturally, and then there came along later the First Bank of the United States, which is in the classic form of architecture, and the building that was recently up for demolition. I think it is a matter of historic interest to note that the United States tried to operate this bank for a number of years and then it went out of the banking business and Stephen Girard offered to take over the bank and in 1812 was when the United States was trying to finance the war-and they had gotten out a bond issue which they were unable to sell, and Stephen Girard bought the entire issue and sold them, at that little bank which is, as I say, a perfect gem of architecture. Then we have the Second Bank of the United States that was built under the diretcion of Nicholas Biddle, who was quite a figure in Philadelphia, and finally got in wrong with Andrew Jackson, but that has remained in Federal hands up to the point where it had almost been lost and was up almost for demolition.

I tried to approach this thing from an architectural point of view. The Fairmount Park Art Association that I represent is 73 years of age. In its early existence it had its charter obtained to foster the beautiful within the city of Philadelphia, that is, architecturally and by way of general planning. It enjoyed considerable