INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 1915.

COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS,
UNITED STATES SENATE,

The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m.

Washington, D. C.

Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Pittman, Lane, Robinson, Thompson, Owen, Clapp, Page, Gronna, and Townsend.

The CHAIRMAN. The first item for our consideration this morning will be found in the tentative draft of the bill at page 9, line 15, as Follows:

For expenses of Board of Indian Commissioners, $4,000.

INDIAN COUNCIL, CHIPPEWA INDIANS, MINNESOTA.

Senator CLAPP. While that matter is pending, I desire to state that the delegation that is here from Minnesota has seen Senator Lane, and they want a different provision put in the bill in reference to this council. I think perhaps it is all right and I move to substitute the amendment I now submit for adoption in the bill. (The amendment referred to is as follows:)

That the sum of $4,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota, is hereby appropriated to pay the expenses of the general council of said tribe to be held at Bemidji, Minnesota, beginning July thirteenth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, pursuant to the constitution of the general council of said Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, organized in May, nineteen hundred and thirteen, and to pay the actual and necessary expenses of the members of the executive committee of said council when attending to the business of the tribe, and to pay the expenses to Washington, in January and February, nineteen hundred and fifteen, of the delegation of Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota, appointed by the president of said general council pursuant to the resolution of said general council of date August fourteenth, nineteen hundred and fourteen, to present the affairs of said Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota to the officials of the United States, said $4,000 to be immediately available, and the expenses of said delegation to be paid by the Secretary of the Interior upon itemized accounts approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the expenses of said general council to be paid by the Secretary of the Interior upon itemized accounts approved by the president of the executive committee of said council and certified to by its secretary. The Secretary of the Interior may authorize an inspector or special agent to attend future sessions of said general council and conventions to which delegates therefor are elected.

(The amendment was agreed to.)

EXPENSES OF BOARD OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS.

Senator PAGE. Mr. Chairman, I am free to say that while I have great respect for the department, I want to see somebody here who more fully represents the Indians than they are now represented. If that commission is a good commission I am in favor of a much larger salary than we are now giving them

The CHAIRMAN. You do not mean salary; you mean expenses.

Seantor CLAPP. We have indicated to the Board of Indian Commissioners that is present that they may give their views for the record in the form of writing, and while I am in hearty accord with your idea, still I think we should hear them.

Senator PAGE. If they are here we will hear them.

STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE VAUX, PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS.

Mr. VAUX. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, the Board of Indian Commissioners feel that at such a busy time in the short session it was not probable that the committee would desire to give a great deal of time to this board. We have, therefore, presented in writing, at your request, Mr. Chairman, a number of suggestions that have been printed; I have a copy in my hand. I imagine possibly the point that you would like to hear from us at the moment, and which we would like you to take into consideration, is the question of the appropriation for the board. We have not much to say upon that point in view of the facts that have been disclosed as a result of the generous action of Congress last year. Up to last year, and for a number of years, the board had received an appropriation of $4,000 a year to cover salaries and incidentals and traveling expenses of members of the board. Last year through your generosity-that is, for the current fiscal year-the amount was increased to $10,000, which has enabled the board for the first time in a very considerable number of years to really do the sort of work which it has felt that it ought to do in order to be able to really accomplish the purposes for which it was formed.

A number of different investigations have been already conducted. The reports of those investigations, insofar as they have been completed and approved by the board, have already been transmitted to the Secretary of the Interior, as it is the intention of the board that everything should first go to the Secretary of the Interior in order that he may be informed precisely what the board is doing. There are other reports which are pending before the board, and which will be adopted before our session in Washington closes this week. Commissioner Eliot made an extensive tour to the extreme Northwest-the Puget Sound country-and has presented a report which covers a very comprehensive statement of conditions there. Commissioner Morehead has just returned from some further investigation in Oklahoma. His report was presented last night, and is in process of being typewritten for the Secretary. The report on open-market purchases which involves a considerable point of interest in connection with the expenditure of Indian funds, was approved by the board at its session last night, and has been transmitted to the Secretary of the Interior. Other reports which are pending before the board are those with respect to the Fort Peck Reservation and the Flathead Reservation, where investigations were made by Commissioner Ketcham, but those reports have not as yet been approved. There is a very comprehensive report on the Indian administration of the Dominion of Canada, which was made by the secretary of the board, he having, at the board's direction, spent several weeks in Canada during the last late summer and early autumn, and where it was thought, by reason of administrative

methods and policies there, there might be much suggestion found that would be of service in our own administrative course. In addition to that, there are several other investigations which are contemplated for this spring and during the current fiscal year.

I simply refer to those as the sort of work which the board feels itself equipped to do if it is supplied with the necessary actual expenses, and that is the kind of work that we want to keep on with if Congress in its wisdom considers it is a valuable thing for us to do. Senator PAGE. You would like just what you had last year, would you?

Mr. VAUX. That would be our suggestion, Senator.

Senator PAGE. Now, inasmuch as this comes before us for action this session, could you have some one who has made investigations give us your views in regard to the distribution of the funds for the Indian tribes in Oklahoma; you say you made a study of that?

Mr. VAUX. Some phases of the conditions in Oklahoma have been investigated. Commissioner Morehead has just returned he got in yesterday from an investigation.

Senator PAGE. You know there is a proposition before the committee now for consideration to pay $200 to one tribe and $100 to another tribe of Indians, and that is a matter that is to be passed upon, as I understand it, before very long. If you have any views in regard to that particularly, or if some one here has made investigations with regard to that, I, for one, would be very glad to get those views, as they may aid us in our action at this time.

Mr. VAUX. Mr. Morehead can speak as to that

Senator PAGE. I did not mean to interrupt you, Mr. Vaux. You may proceed with your remarks. I supposed that you had arrived at a point where you could be interrogated.

Mr. VAUX. That was all I had to say. With reference to the question of what you might consider the justification for the board's existence in the work it has done, I do not know that it is necessary to enlarge on the matters that are referred to in the typewritten statement which was submitted to each member of the committee, and which appears on page 269 and subsequent pages of Part III of the Hearings. Those matters, I think, are all probably fully presented there unless there is some point that some Senator would like to have an expression of view about.

Passing that for a moment, I will ask Mr. Eliot if he will kindly express his views on the subject of distribution of funds to Indians in Oklahoma that Senator Page has just spoken of.

STATEMENT OF MR. WARREN K. MOREHEAD, OF THE BOARD OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS.

Mr. MOREHEAD. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I would say that although Mr. Vaux very kindly mentioned my speaking on this subject, I went to Oklahoma, confining my work to McCurtain County, with the Choctaw Indians, for the purpose of investigating the health and living conditions, agriculture, etc., of the Choctaws.

Senator PAGE. If you have made no investigation, or if you do not care to say anything with regard to the distribution of the funds, I do not care for anything further. You do not care to speak about that?

Mr. MOREHEAD. I did not go for that purpose; no, sir. I went for a different purpose. I have nothing in particular to say at this time. Senator CLAPP. Some one spoke, in connection with this appropriation, of "salaries." As I understand it, no salary is paid except to the secretary of the board?

Mr. VAUX. The secretary and clerical force in the office. The 10 members of the board serve entirely without pay.

Senator CLAPP. That was my understanding, and I wanted it in the record.

Mr. VAUX. Yes, sir; the only thing is that we ought to be reimbursed for actual traveling expenses when we are traveling on the business of the board.

The CHAIRMAN. On page 273 of volume 3 there is filed a detailed statement of the expenditures of the board.

Mr. VAUX. Page 272 shows expenditures up to December 31, and on page 273 is the estimate of what the expenses are for the balance of the fiscal year, to use up the remaining appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. Bishop Walker, may we have the pleasure of hearing from you?

Bishop WALKER. If you will pardon me, I think I would rather not say anything, because I am perhaps the least working man in the whole party; but later on there may be some other matters that may come up which, if you will allow me, I will be glad to speak about. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Eliot, may we hear from you?

Mr. ELIOT. Mr. Chairman, I can only emphasize the words of the chairman of the board. This board is not anxious for any particular consideration. We are all busy men. We are ready, however, to carry out the request of the President of the United States, who has appointed us to such service, and, speaking for myself, I find I am able to give from six to eight weeks each year to this kind of service. It is for the benefit of the administration of the Indians' affairs that we should have the advice and counsel of a perfectly disinterested, impartial, nonpartisan, and nonsectarian board of this character. The board simply stands on its record of work done in justifying the increase of appropriation from $4,000 to $10,000.

STATEMENT OF DANIEL SMILEY, A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS.

Mr. SMILEY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I do not know that I have anything to say supplementary to what Mr. Vaux and Mr. Walker have said. I would only say practically the same that they have said, that we are each of us willing to spend some portion of our time for work for the benefit of the Indians, and we feel that an appropriation of at least $10,000 would enable us to do some good, which is very much needed to be done. The smaller amount would certainly allow us to exist without performing the work which we are supposed to do. I thank you, gentelmen.

Mr. VAUX. I might say, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Smiley has been giving considerable attention since the early summer to an investigation on behalf of the board into the conditions and the proper method of handling the problem that arises in connection with the New York Indians, who seem to have been battered about between the United States Government and the State of New York, and

formerly the State of Massachusetts and the Ogden Land Co., and one or two other interests, so their status is exceedingly complicated and probably they are not progressing at all in proportion to what one would expect from bands of Indians who are in the heart of a community similar to that of southwestern New York State. Some people feel that part of that grows out of their anamolous situation with respect to their land tenures, etc., which no one seems to have a very clear and final view as to the interpretation of. The matter has never been finally determined by the courts. All attempts to get the question of land titles decided by the courts have so far proved ineffective. There is a bill, I think, pending, known as the Clancy bill, in the House of Representatives, which is expected to bring about that final determination of the legal points involved, but I imagine as it has not gotten through the House it is not at all probable it will be passed at this session of Congress.

Senator PAGE. Have you any legislation to suggest to us at this time?

Mr. VAUX. With regard to the New York Indians?

Senator PAGE. Yes.

Mr. VAUX. No, sir; we are trying to secure all the data possible in order to be able to suggest something in the future, but until we know more about the subject than we know now it would be futile for us to suggest anything.

Senator TOWNSEND. Would not Mr. Smiley be willing to tell us briefly what he has discovered in connection with these New York Indians?

Senator CLAPP. Mr. Chairman, allow me to suggest, with a view to harmony in the committee, that it seems to me at this point the gentlemen of the commission have felt that the sole subject for consideration at this particular moment was the appropriation. I think the committee would be glad to have each member of the Commission, as he appears before the committee, not only discuss that phase of the question, but give us the conclusions that his experience suggests he might well present here.

Senator TOWNSEND. Well, Mr. Chairman, I am asking a question that is entirely pertinent to that inquiry.

Senator CLAPP. Yes; that is the point, only they do not seem to understand that.

Mr. SMILEY. Mr. Chairman, the situation of the New York Indians seems to be very complicated. In certain matters the National Government has jurisdiction. In other matters the State of New York, particularly the Department of Education, seems to exercise control. In certain minor police matters the State of New York exercises control.

Senator PAGE. And may I ask, do you think the State of New York is, so far as educational matters are concerned, doing its full duty to the Indians?

Mr. SMILEY. So far as it is able, but it is somewhat hampered by not having control. It seems to us as though between the two authorities the Indians will suffer, and if we could have it once determined under whose jurisdiction those Indians are it would very materially help in improving their condition.

Senator PAGE. Are they citizens of the State of New York?