301. Clause 66 is suggested as B. It was in the Paper before the House of Lords. That is Clause 65 in the old Bill. Is there any importance in that? I suppose some of these words about fishing weir and fishing mill dam are introduced into that Clause, are they not?-(Mr. Stocks.) No, those are old. The new words are "for the purpose of enforcing any of the provisions of this Act or any Order or bye-law made thereunder," and the words "and traverse." (Sir Frederick Liddell.) "And traverse" really do not add very much.

302. Do you think it is worth while making it B?—No, I think it might go into A.

(Clause 66 is passed and is referred to Class A.)

ON CLAUSE 67.

303. Clause 67 is a more important clause, perhaps. I have no note. (Mr. Stocks.) It is very much the same as the last one.

304. I think that might be A ?-(Sir Frederick Liddell.) Yes.

(Clause 67 is passed and is referred to Class A.)

ON CLAUSE 68.

305. Clause 68 is Clause 67 in the old Bill? (Major Garnsey.) That is practically re-enactment.

[Continued

306. I do not think we need put that into B? (Sir Frederick Liddell.) No. (Clause 68 is passed, and is referred to Class A.)

(Clauses 69, 70 and 71 are passed, and are referred to Class A.)

(Clause 72 is passed and is referred to Class C.)

ON CLAUSE 73.

307. Clause 73, which is Clause 72 in the old Bill, is suggested to be A, but what do you say about it; is there not some substantial alteration ?-I think not. -(Major Garnsey.) I have got "re-enactment." (Mr. Stocks.) The only thing is the commencement of Sub-clause 2: "Subject to the provisions of Section 5 of the Criminal Justice Administration Act," but that is nothing. (Sir Frederick Liddell.) That Act has been passed since.

308. It is the one I asked about at the beginning? Yes.

309. I see a reference to 4 & 5 George V. comes in there?—Yes.

(Clause 73 is passed and is referred to Class A.)

ON CLAUSE 74.

310. Of course, Clause 74 is a very important clause?-(Mr. Stocks.) That is

new.

311. That deals with the penalties?— (Sir Frederick Liddell.) Yes. (Major Garnsey.) And increase the fine and reduces the imprisonment.

312. There ought to be a note upon that, I think? (Mr. Stocks.) It is a new clause it is C. It is only providing for uniform penalties, but Sub-clause 4 is a new provision altogether. (Sir Frederick Liddell.) That is power to disqualify a person from being a member of a fishery board.

313. Yes, I saw that; that is new?(Mr. Stocks.) That was suggested by a fishery board.

314. I have got a suggestion in the draft; if refers to the penalties?--Yes, certainly.

315. I think perhaps we might put in a few more words about this clause as showing it is of quite a general character as a consolidating clause, and also an amending clause?-(Sir Frederick Liddell.) Yes.

316. The consolidating effect of it is a rather interesting and important one, I think? Yes.

317. Would you see to that?—Yes. (Clause 74 is passed and is referred to Class C.)

(Clause 75 is passed and is referred to Class A.)

ON CLAUSE 76.

318. Clause 76 is the old Clause 75?(Major Garnsey.) That is re-enactment.

319. What is the importance of that?— (Mr. Stocks.) The last line of Clause 76 is now.—(Sir Frederick Liddell.) " A justice shall not be entitled to hear any case in respect of an offence committeed on his own land or in relation to any fishery of which he is owner or occupier." It is disqualification of a justice.

320. I think B is right; I think it ought to be B?—Yes.

(Clause 76 is passed and is referred to Class B.)

ON CLAUSE 77.

321. I think there is nothing new in Clause 77?-(Sir Frederick Liddell.) No. 322. That is verbatim, I think, almost from the old Act?-(Major Garnsey.) Yes.

(Clause 77 is passed and is referred to Class A.)

ON CLAUSE 78.

323. 78 is new again, is it not?-(Sir Frederick Liddell.) Yes.

324. That is (c) undoubtedly?—Yes. (Clause 78 is passed and is referred to Class C.)

ON CLAUSE 79.

325. Clause 79 is also new, is it not?(Major Garnsey.) Yes, that is new. (Mr. Stocks.) It was Clause 77 in the old Bill. (Clause 79 is passed and is referred to Class C.)

ON CLAUSES 80, 81, 82 and 83. 326. I think these are substantially reenactment?-(Sir Frederick Liddell.) Yes, substantially re-enactment. (Clauses 80, 81, 82 and 83 are passed and are referred to Class A. )

ON CLAUSE 84.

[Continued

327. Now Clause 84. Would you just consider what Lord Ullswater wrote; it was on Clause 84?-(Mr. Stocks.) The real point about that, I think, is this. We did decide to accept that amendment of Lord Ullswater's, which we thought was a reasonable amendment, if it could be confined to the Estuary of the Solway, leaving out the River Eden, which is actually in English territory all the way. It is quite obvious that the wording of this Clause as included now will have to be altered, because in the regulations as to the mesh of net to be the same as those in force on the Scottish side, the wording is unsatisfactory, and I am sure Sir Frederick Liddell will put it in very much better form later on. What we want to have is that the byelaw made by the Eden Fishery Board shall not, so to speak, go beyond any bye-law made by the Scottish Board.

328. That is so; I quite understood the debate? So that the wording will have to be slightly altered, and we shall also have to define the Solway.

329. They will have to define it?-Yes, and we can do that.

330. That is what Lord Ullswater suggests ? Yes.

331. So that I can tell him, if he is in the House this evening, that something of that sort is going to be done on Report, and that is not our affair; that is the Government altering their own amendment? The Royal Commission reported and there is a definition of the Solway that we can take from that.

Mr. Kidd.

332. There is some difference with regard to nets and hours on the two sides of the Solway?—Yes; it wants carefully wording.

Chairman.

333. Then this is C. I do not know that we have anything to say upon that? -(Sir Frederick Liddell.) No.

334. I will just tell Lord Ullswater that I did put it to you about it, and that you told me there was going to be an Amendment made?—Yes.

(Clause 84 is passed and is referred to Class C.)

341. Clause 92 is new, is it not? (Mr. Stocks.) That is a new Clause. (Sir Frederick Liddell.) That is only repeals.

342. It is a formal Clause?—Yes.

343. I suppose I have nothing to do with it, but I did wonder what was the importance of the proviso? (Major Garnsey.) The old bye-laws had their own specific penalties. (Sir Frederick Liddell.) We continue the bye-laws, but the old bye-laws imposed their own penalties. Under the Bill, the Bill imposes the

[Continued

penalty for breach of the bye-laws. We altered this provision to apply to breaches of all bye-laws instead of the special provisions of the bye-laws themselves imposing penalties.

(Clause 92 is passed and is referred to Class C.)

ON CLAUSE 93.

344. Clause 93 is a formal Clause? (Mr. Stocks.) Yes.

345. Why do you put in nowadays: "shall not extend to Ireland "? Can they extend to Ireland? (Sir Frederick Liddell.) We do not want this to extend to Ireland.

346. No, but have we any longer any jurisdiction over Ireland? I suppose there is some for the north of Ireland?With regard to salmon fishery, they have complete power, but it is a power conferred upon the Council of Ireland.

347. What I mean is, after Ireland has become a Free State, is it necessary to put it in legislation ?-It has not become a Free State yet. What we shall do with regard to it in the future, we have to consider.

(Clause 93 is passed and is referred to Class B.)

ON SCHEDULES.

348. Now is there anything we shall have to see about on the Schedules ?It is not quite true that the Schedules are all new. The Third Schedule is reenactment. (Major Garnsey.) They are all old. (Sir Frederick Liddell.) It ought to be Schedules 1 and 2 new; Schedule 3 ought to be A. (Major Garnsey.) The only thing in the Schedules is in the second paragraph of the Second Schedule; that is new: "Any question as to disputed compensation." That is new, and paragraph 16 of the Third Schedule is

new.

349. "The nomination paper "?Yes. (Mr. Stocks.) I am sorry to say that is a mistake of mine; it ought to be A and not C. (Sir Frederick Liddell.) The Second Schedule is old. (Mr. Stocks.) I think the Second Schedule is new. (Sir Frederick Liddell.) No; it is taken from the Act of 1907. (Major Garnsey.) The only thing that is new in the Second Schedule is the second paragraph. (Sir Frederick Liddell.) Yes, that is new. The Second Schedule ought

to be B, I think. The First Schedule will be C, the Second Schedule B, and the Third Schedule A.

350. We will adopt that?-The question is whether the Second Schedule should be A or B. The difference between it and the existing law is that under this section "any question as to the disputed compensation shall be determined under and in accordance with the Acquisition of Land (Assessment of Compensation) Act, 1919." I should have thought that was an amendment of sufficient importance to make it proper to put the Schedule under B.

351. I think so, too; but you do not think that the putting in of paragraph 16 in the Third Schedule takes it out of the Act; it is not a very big matter; I think we will risk that.

(The Schedules are passed.)

[Continued

Chairman.] Mr. Kidd, I think I could succeed in getting ready a draft Report in the course of this afternoon, and we will get it circulated at once. They are very anxious at the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries to get on with their Bill, and I suggest that it will not be necessary for us to have another meeting; but in circulating the Report, I will ask each Member to be good enough to say whether he approves. I have not the least doubt that they will approve, and then we shall be able to get on with it. Mr. Kidd.] Yes.

(The Witnesses are directed to withdraw.)

Ordered: That the Committee be adjourned to Wednesday morning next, Eleven o'clock.

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