the President may deem to be necessary, together with all necessary terminal facilities, for the transportation of petroleum and its products from the vicinity of Port Saint Joe to the vicinity of Jacksonville, Florida: Provided, That in addition to the sum herein authorized, there is hereby authorized the sum not to exceed $13,000,000 for the purpose of constructing a crude oil pipe line from either Charleston, South Carolina, or Savannah, Georgia, whichever of the said cities or both on the inland waterway meets with the approval of the Secretary of the Navy and the Secretary of War, to the Tinsley Oil Field located in the vicinity of Yazoo, Mississippi. The construction of the said line to be under the supervision of the Army Engineers. For the above purposes there is hereby authorized $80,000,000.

Passed the House of Representatives June 17, 1942.
Attest:

SOUTH TRIMBLE, Clerk.

Senator VANDENBERG. Is the sum of $80,000,000 the total of the entire bill?

The CHAIRMAN. It says "For the above purposes." I take it that it includes all of them.

Mr. MILLER. It does not include the pipe line from Yazoo, Miss., to Charleston.

The CHAIRMAN. Then it will be necessary to make further provision.

Mr. MILLER. It will be $93,000,000, including that.

The CHAIRMAN. We also have an amendment proposed by Senator Lucas to H. R. 6999, which reads as follows [reading]:

(H. R. 6999, 77th Cong., 2d sess.)

AMENDMENT intended to be proposed by Mr. Lucas to the bill (H. R. 6999) to promote the national defense and to promptly facilitate and protect the transport of materials and supplies needful to the Military Establishment by authorizing the construction and operation of a pipe line and a navigable barge channel across Florida, and by deepening and enlarging the Intracoastal Waterway from its present eastern terminus to the vicinity of the Mexican border, viz:

By adding at the end of the paragraph on page 3 "Provided further, That until the shortage of petroleum products on the east coast has been overcome and restrictions upon deliveries and sales removed, neither the Office of Petroleum Coordinator, nor any other Federal administrative office, or agency, shall have the power to restrict, limit, or license the drilling of oil wells to a depth not exceeding three thousand three hundred feet: And provided further, That where an oil well can be drilled by the use of equipment which is at this time fabricated, neither the Office of Petroleum Coordinator, nor any other Federal administrative office, or agency, shall have the power to restrict, limit, or license the drilling of any such oil well."

We also have before us Senator Pepper's bill, S. 2426.

Senator PEPPER. Mr. Chairman, my purpose is not to insist upon that bill, but to defer to the Mansfield bill which is here. So I suggest the temporary displacement of my bill, because the Mansfield bill is completely satisfactory to me.

(Bill S. 2426 is here printed in full as follows:)

[S. 2426, 77th Cong., 2d sess.]

A BILL To promote the national defense and to promptly facilitate and protect the transport of materials needful to the Military Establishment by authorizing the construction and operation of pipe-line and waterway facilities across northern Florida between the intracoastal waterways along the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic seaboard

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That, in order to promote the national defense and to promptly facilitate and protect the transport of materials and

supplies needful to the Military Establishment, and notwithstanding any other provision of law, the President is hereby authorized and requested to take all needful action to cause to be constructed and operated as Federal public service (a) temporary pipe-line facilities between Withlacoochee Bay, Florida, and the Saint Johns River, Florida, for the transport of petroleum and derivatives thereof; together with such pumping stations, shore, offshore, terminal, transfer, and other auxiliary works and facilities as he may find requisite.

(b) A waterway having a channel with a minimum depth of twelve feet and minimum bottom width of one hundred and fifty feet from the waters of Withlacoochee Bay, Florida, to the Saint Johns River, Florida, along the route designated as 13-B and described in House Document Numbered 194, Seventy-fifth Congress, together with such lees, breakwaters, jetties, and aids to navigation between Saint Josephs Bay, Florida, and Withlacoochee Bay, Florida, as he may find requisite for the use and protection of navigation.

SEC. 2. The total cost of the projects authorized in section 1 hereof shall not exceed $68,000,000.

SEC. 3. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the President is hereby authorized and requested to take all needful action to cause any lending agency of the United States to finance the construction and operation by the Inland Waterways Corporation and other carriers of all needful barge and towing equipment for the transport of petroleum and products thereof and other freight via either or both the facilities authorized in section 1 hereof.

SEC. 4. Appropriations necessary for the carrying out of the purposes of section 1 hereof are hereby authorized. Pending such appropriations by Congress, the President is hereby authorized and requested to employ for such purposes any funds at his disposal, to be replaced by the appropriations hereby authorized when made.

The CHAIRMAN. We have a question here as to the suggested pipe line. The Committee on Commerce has never had jurisdiction of pipe-line transportation, nor has it had authorization with respect to drilling for oil. I do not like to impinge upon the jurisdiction of any other committee. It is my judgment that while we will have a hearing and can proceed with it, I should deal with the Committee on Interstate Commerce, with respect to the pipe line, and if that committee requests that the pipe-line proposition be transferred to it, I think it would be consistent with our policy to so transfer it.

With respect to the amendment offered by Senator Lucas, it relates to drilling for oil.

Senator BILBO. I do not think that the Interstate Commerce Committee of the Senate would insist upon their jurisdiction, if they have such, because this is a war measure. The House did not divide it. It was considered by the House Committee on Rivers and Harbors as one project.

The CHAIRMAN. I am not sure about that, but I wish to treat them courteously. I made the statement so that I would be protected in the event that the Committee on Interstate Commerce offered any objection whatever.

As to the matter of drilling for oil, I think that should go to the Committee on Mines and Mining.

Senator BILBO. Does Senator Lucas by his amendment propose a limit for the depth of wells of 3,000 feet?

The CHAIRMAN. He proposes that there shall be no limit for the time being.

Let me say for the benefit of all concerned that we are confronted with a real shortage in the supply of petroleum and petroleum products, oil, and gas to the eastern seaboard States, there being 17 in number under rationing. It appears from the House hearings, which I have read with some interest and profit, and which I commend to

the members of this committee, that there is a shortage of about 500,000 barrels per day; that the actual demand is about 1,350,000 barrels per day; that the railroads and pipe lines are now prepared to take care of about 800,000 to 850,000 barrels a day, leaving a shortage of 450,000 to 550,000 barrels per day.

If we can meet that situation, we ought to meet it; but it further appears that we cannot hope to meet it, even to a moderate degree, by a pipe line across Florida, within 4 months. We may have two pipe lines across Florida, but it would require 4 to 5 months to build them. So that we have that problem to deal with. We may be able to procure 8 to 10-inch second-hand pipe. It further appears that one pipe line across Florida has already been authorized. I think that is a 10-inch pipe line, is it not, Senator Pepper?

Senator PEPPER. I believe it is an 8-inch pipe line.

The CHAIRMAN. That will provide to Jacksonville from the west coast, say, between 50,000 and 60,000 barrels a day.

It appears that the railroads are carrying 650,000 barrels a day. They have done a great job, and it appears that they can continue to do that and that they may improve that figure.

It further appears that the power on the line from Baton Rouge to Greensboro, N. C., will be set up with the addition of pumps, so that whereas it is now about 50,000 barrels per day, it may be lifted to 59,000 barrels a day.

But after all is said and done, it appears that there is a shortage of from 400,000 to 500,000 barrels of oil and gas a day. It is going to affect industry and homes with respect to crude oil and furnace oil, and it will affect transportation in respect to gasoline.

It further appears that there is no possibility of building a canal across Florida within 15 months. That is the testimony of the Chief of Engineers. There will be no relief by way of a barge canal across Florida or the inland waterway canal across Florida inside of 15 months. If we want to build a canal all the way down to Corpus Christi, Tex., as provided in the House bill, that will require 3 years, and it represents an immense amount of money. So that so far as dealing with the immediate situation is concerned, we have no relief in sight within 4 or 5 months. I think the railroads are doing practically all they can do.

It also appears that the Petroleum Coordinator has projected six pipe lines, one of them being across Florida, and one, a very long one, from Longview, Tex., to Salem, Ill. The others are shorter lines. It is in contemplation that the oil will be delivered from Texas to Salem, then from Salem to Pittsburgh, and from Pittsburgh across to the Northeastern States through Pennsylvania to New York, New Jersey, and New England.

It further appears that tankers are out of the picture. We have no steel with which to build them. Such as we have left can be used in the transoceanic trade. We have not yet met the situation whereby tankers can proceed safely along our coast. I do not know how well they can proceed across the sea. That is a question.

It strikes me, in view of all those facts, which are matters of testimony from the office of the Petroleum Coordinator and the Chief of Engineers, that the burden is upon the proponents of the barge canal to show, first, that it would bring relief, or, if it cannot bring relief

within a short time, that relief at the end of 15 months would be necessary at that time; that is, if the present situation should last that long.

I gathered from the testimony that there was not a great deal to be hoped for from barge transportation. A canal across Florida would aid to some extent. Whether or not it would aid to any substantial extent would depend upon the barges and the availability of tugs and of engines. Engines are competitive in the general war effort, and they are not available now. We need the steel. Tugs are largely of steel construction. It is agreed that barges could be used for carrying petroleum and fuel oil, but it is certainly very debatable whether they could be used for carrying gasoline or oil that ignites at 150° Fahrenheit.

If there is any dispute about those statements I suggest that the gentlemen who wish to dispute them will dispute them with me. I am taking the word of the Petroleum Coordinator and of the Chief of Engineers as to everything that I have said.

I gather that the pipe line across Florida would enable us to deliver 60,000 barrels a day at Jacksonville. Two pipe lines might enable us to deliver 120,000 barrels a day; and the barges might take gasoline to South Carolina, Georgia, and North Carolina, thereby releasing gasoline being delivered at Greensboro, N. C., for points farther north. I also gather that one of the projects is to extend the Greensboro line to Norfolk.

Those appear to be the facts in the House hearings, and I have laid them before you in order that those who are going to testify may have them in mind if it is desired to controvert them. If you wish to controvert them, do so as opposed to the testimony, not as to anything that I have said.

Having placed that matter before you, I want now to determine how we shall proceed. It occurs to me that in view of the fact that we have the House report, in which the testimony of the Petroleum Coordinator and that of the Chief of Engineers appears, and it appears there that the Petroleum Coordinator has made demands upon Mr. Donald Nelson, of the O. P. M., for the necessary pipe, the best way for us to proceed is not to have those gentlemen come up here and reiterate their testimony, but to hear those who have something to say from the standpoint of American citizens, or by way of petition. What is the will of the subcommittee as to the procedure? Who wishes to be heard?

Mr. MILLER. I would like to be heard, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. In addition to what you stated in the hearings before the House committee?

Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.

Senator LEE. Mr. Chairman, as a member of the committee, I approve your statement very heartily, with perhaps this amendment, that if any of the proponents of the bill wish to have any of the witnesses who testified before the House committee come before this committee, they certainly should be accorded that privilege.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not disagree with that at all. I did not want them to repeat.

Senator LEE. I agree with you on that point.

The CHAIRMAN. I wanted to get through with the matter without great delay.

Senator LEE. It might be that someone might want to bring out some point or ask some questions on some point.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all right. But I would not encourage witnesses who have already testified before the House committee coming here and repeating their testimony. We can read that testimony much better than we can hear it, and it will save a lot of controversy and the asking of questions, and it will save paper, printing, and some time. I am in favor of saving if we can.

Senator VANDENBERG. It is perfectly satisfactory, with one limitation, so far as I am concerned. I am not willing to rest upon the testimony given before the House committee by the engineers or by the Coordinator. I want to call witnesses from the Board of Engineers for Rivers and Harbors, and I want to call Mr. Parton from the office of the Oil Coordinator, for the purpose of examining them. Otherwise I quite agree that it is unnecessary to canvass in detail that which went into the House hearings.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all I am driving at. I wish to get through this week. We have a meeting of the Finance Committee on the tax bill, beginning about the 3d. If you wish to carry on the hearings for a further length of time, all right; but I thought that one of the objects we had in mind was the quick solution of a very difficult matter. Senator VANDENBERG. Those witnesses are the only ones I am interested in, and their statements will not take long.

Senator PEPPER. Mr. Chairman, I desire to put into the record a letter dated June 23, 1942, from Congressman Mansfield to me, enclosing a memorandum relative to H. R. 6999, dated June 22, 1942, and a letter from Major General Reybold, Chief of Engineers, to Congressman Mansfield, dated June 15, 1942.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be inserted in the record.

(The documents referred to and submitted by Senator Pepper are here printed in full, as follows:)

JUNE 22, 1942.

MEMORANDUM RELATIVE TO H. R. 6999

As passed by the House, the bill authorizes

1. Barge canal, 12 feet deep, 125 feet wide, from St. Johns River of Florida, across Florida to the vicinity of the Gulf of Mexico; estimated cost__

(See letter of Chief of Engineers attached.) 2. Enlargement of Gulf Intracoastal Canal to a depth of 12 feet, bottom width of 125 feet (present dimensions 9 feet deep, 100 feet bottom width), from Apalachee Bay to the Mexican border; estimated cost__

3. Pipe line, or pipe lines, from Port St. Joe, Fla., to the vicinity of Jacksonville, Fla.; estimated cost__

$44, 000, 000

26, 000, 000

10, 000, 000 4. Pipe line from Yazoo, Miss., to Charleston, S. C., or Savannah, Ga. 13, 000, 000

Total

93, 000, 000. Present Gulf Intracoastal Waterway.-Canal with 9-foot depth and 100-foot bottom width now completed and in operation from Corpus Christi, Tex., to Carrabelle, Fla., total distance of 954 miles.

Because of tremendous increase of commerce Army engineers 2 years ago recommended enlargement of canal from Corpus Christi to New Orleans, distance 567 miles, to depth of 12 feet and bottom width of 125 feet. This project, approved by Rivers and Harbors Committee, is contained in pending general rivers and harbors bill.