the gas and oil needed on the Atlantic seaboard. This pipe line, of course, is a temporary relief. It is just a measure of temporary relief, for the simple reason that one of those 12-inch lines, or 1234inch lines, will only carry about 70,000 barrels of oil a day. Suppose you had four of them. They still would not carry enough oil to supply the demand. It would only be about 280,000 barrels a day. Something has been said about a 24-inch oil line. There is no 24-inch oil line in America and never has been, so far as I have been able to find out. But if we had a 24-inch pipe line, while that might help to break the stress of the emergency, it would not supply enough oil to meet the demands on the Atlantic seaboard, because it would only supply about 280,000 barrels a day.

This pipe line from the Tinsley oil field to the Atlantic seaboard will help tremendously. It will help more than any other pipe line proposition, except the one across the Florida Peninsula.

I know that it has been contended here that they ought to go to the north Texas field and build one of those lines all the way through to Philadelphia.

If you build a 12-inch line, at the very best it would not carry as much oil as we are producing now in the Tinsley oil field in Mississippi. The shortest possible route from any oil field to the Atlantic seaboard is a direct line from the Tinsley oil field in Mississippi to Savannah, Ga., or to Charleston, S. C. Besides, you have no mountains to go through. The land is comparatively level. There are no freezes to amount to anything. There is nothing to slow down the work or to hamper the construction or slow the passage of oil through the pipe. Besides, you would not have the Mississippi River to cross.

I know someone has said that they have slowed down the production to 80,000 barrels a day. But if you take the restrictions off and let them develop all those fields they have in Mississippi, it will grow by leaps and bounds, as it has been doing for the last few years.

In Louisiana, on the east side of the Mississippi River, there are 35,000 or 40,000 barrels a day, if I understand correctly, being produced now, which, added to the oil we can supply in the Tinsley oil field, will be more than both these pipe lines would carry.

So I submit, Mr. Chairman, that these two pipe lines ought to be constructed now, in order to get as much oil as possible to the Atlantic seaboard, and as quickly as possible.

I am not interested in any row between the various departments of this Government about this proposition. I have no interest in the Tinsley oil field, except the fact that it is in my State. None of the area is in the district which I represent, and I do not own one dollar's worth of interest in the entire field. But I am interested in getting oil to the Atlantic seaboard, because we have to have it there in order to carry on the war. We ought to build these pipe lines at once; and this barge canal across the Florida Peninsula should be provided without delay. If we had done it 2 years ago, when we had this proposition up, there would be no oil shortage on the Atlantic seaboard today.

That is all I have to say. If you pass this bill as it passed the House you will provide these two pipe lines that will to a large extent, as far as their capacity goes, alleviate the shortage of oil on

the Atlantic seaboard. Then if you will begin at once the construction of the Florida Canal across the State of Florida, you will soon connect that great 3,000-mile stretch of intracoastal waterway from the coast of New Jersey to the borders of Mexico. It is absolutely protected from submarines, and can be defended all along by land-based planes and in other places by land-based artillery. It will be safe and permanent.

I want to say a word about the proposal to drop away down and go across via the route proposed by Mr. Peterson. You would be going down there into the open Gulf along that stretch where you not only have the submarine menace but the storm menace. You might as well go on around the Florida Peninsula and take your chances on the submarines and the storms in the Florida Strait. Besides, you only have a 6-foot canal across there, and when you get across you are in the open Atlantic, far below where this intracoastal water reaches, and you would have the same menace there. You would go 400 or 500 miles farther. It would cost just as much, or probably more, and then you would not have the protection.

The direct route would be to go ahead and follow the St. John River and then across to Port Inglis.

I went down there several years ago and went over this proposition; looked it over carefully. I have been on the Rivers and Harbors Committee ever since. I have heard all the testimony and have gone over it with the Army engineers and with everyone else interested; and while I know that there will be critics of my attitude for supporting this proposition, I think it is absolutely vital and necessary that we build these two pipe lines now and provide for the canal across the State of Florida.

I know somebody has suggested going up the Mississippi to Ohio and then laying a pipe line through the Allegheny Mountains. I took it up with the Army engineers; and if you will consult them you will see how far short of meeting the demand and how much time it will take with a proposition of that kind.

This is the only way we have found to supply the gasoline and oil needs of the Atlantic seaboard within 18 months from today; and I defy any man to point out anything else that has been proposed that will meet the emergency within the time necessary. I have gone over this matter carefully and prayerfully and painstakingly, and I am convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that the passage of this bill as it passed the House would be the best thing that could be done to meet the emergency at this time.

(The witness withdrew from the committee table.)

Senator BAILEY. We will hear from Rear Admiral Hottell now.

STATEMENT OF J. F. HOTTELL, REAR ADMIRAL, UNITED STATES COAST GUARD, RETIRED

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. I have been requested to come here with the idea that perhaps I had some information which would be of interest, due to the fact that I have just completed an inspection of this across-Florida waterway for the Office of Defense Transportation.

I will be glad to answer any questions in regard to that feature of the situation?

Senator CARAWAY (chairman of the subcommittee). Are there any questions to be asked of the admiral?

Senator CLARK of Missouri. Suppose you tell us about that waterway and your experience in going through it.

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. There had been so much misinformation in regard to the possibilities of that canal passed around, that the official of the O. D. T. who handles the intracoastal and coastwise transportation matters asked the Coast Guard to let me go down there and look the situation over and get the physical facts with regard to this canal.

About the time I was starting some people who were interested in the whole situation in Florida had organized what might be called a test tow. They were going to transfer some gasoline from Tampa to West Palm Beach.

There were 176,000 gallons of the gasoline loaded into a barge which was 132 by 32 by 8 feet, putting it down to a draft of 6 feet. The tug was a small tug with a 150-horsepower engine. The tug drew 612 feet. That is 6 inches over the ordinary depth in the eastern end of the waterway.

That is a rather novel situation. The canal is a combination of drainage, flood control, irrigation, and navigation. It has had very little commercial use heretofore.

We made the passage across Florida without any undue trouble; none due to draft of water; some little due to current. We ran night and day and made the passage of the across-Florida waterway; that is, from Fort Myers to Cape Sewell, in about 3 hours, which I think demonstrates that the canal is usable by vessels of 612-foot draft. Senator ANDREWS. Did you say Cape Sewell?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Point Sewell. It is below Stuart, which is where the across-Florida canal joints the Intracoastal Waterway. Senator PEPPER. You spoke about an experimental operation through the Fort Myers-Stuart Canal, did you?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes, sir.

Senator PEPPER. What was the type of vessel used in transitting that canal?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. It was what they call a steel barge, 132 feet long, 32 feet wide, and 8 feet deep.

Senator PEPPER. What did you find to be the controlling depth in that waterway?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. We had no trouble at all going through with the draft we had.

Senator PEPPER. What was that draft?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Six feet six, on the tugboat.

Senator PEPPER. The vessel carrying the load?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Only 6 feet. But the tug got through with 6 feet 6 inches.

Senator PEPPER. Where did that operation begin?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. At Fort Myers, as far as I am concerned. The gasoline came from Tampa, but I observed the operation from Fort Myers where the canal begins.

Senator PEPPER. How did it come from Tampa?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. In this barge.

74347-42-8

Senator PEPPER. What is the distance from Tampa to the entrance to the Withlacoochee River? Do you recall about what that distance is?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. I do not recall exactly what it is, Senator. It is in the neighborhood of 70 miles, I should say.

Senator PEPPER. Less than 100 miles?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. I would estimate 70 miles or 75 miles. Senator PEPPER. To give you the benefit of the suggestion, for whatever it may be worth, would you think 170 miles would be an inappropriate figure of that distance?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Somebody sitting back here said 120 miles.

Senator PEPPER. Well, it is, say, in the neighborhood of 100 miles. That transit was across the open Gulf, was it not?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes.

Senator PEPPER. Was it safely made?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. The vessel arrived.
Senator PEPPER. In good shape?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes.

Senator PEPPER. In your opinion, is it feasible or possible to use that kind of a barge in the open Gulf for approximately that distance or any reasonable distance?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. I think similar barges have been used right along across there.

Senator PEPPER. Did you follow the experiment on up the East Coast Canal from Stuart to Jacksonville?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. This tug towed the barge to West Palm Beach, and the cargo was discharged there. Then I went back from West Palm Beach up to St. Augustine in the same barge, but the barge was light.

Senator PEPPER. It was lighter.

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. It was discharged. It was a light barge, drawing about 18 inches.

Senator PEPPER. Can you put into the record a statement as to the controlling depth of the east coast waterway from Miami to Jacksonville.

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. The controlling depth or the project depth? Senator PEPPER. The controlling depth.

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. That depth varies.

Senator PEPPER. Is it as deep as the canal from Fort Myers to Stuart?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. It is deeper.

Senator PEPPER. What is the project depth of that?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. The Intracoastal Waterway from Miami to the St. Johns River is 8 feet. That is the project depth. The project depth of the across-Florida waterway is 7 feet from Point Sewell to Lake Okeechobee, 8 feet across the lake to Moore Haven, 7 feet from Moore Haven to Fort Myers.

Senator PEPPER. Of course that waterway is already open. is it not? Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes.

Senator PEPPER. Have you stated the figures about the locks that are in that waterway, as to the size of them, their width and depth? Do you happen to have that information, Admiral?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes. The locks have a usable length of 250 feet and they are 50 feet wide.

Senator PEPPER. That, of course, is an existing waterway, is it not, from the mouth of the river near Fort Myers, to about Stuart, and thence on to Jacksonville, if you desired to go north?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes.

Senator PEPPER. Or from Stuart south as far as Miami, if you desired to go south?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes.

Senator PEPPER. In order to use that as an existing project, that would carry a vessel with a draft of 612 feet, all you would have to do would be to transit the open Gulf from Port St. Joe down to the mouth of the Withlacoochee River?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. From Carrabelle I think would be a little

nearer.

Senator PEPPER. Say, 20 miles nearer, from Carrabelle down to the mouth of the Withlacoochee River?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes.

Senator PEPPER. As an emergency operation, when there is a dire need to be met, and pending the completion of more complete means of securing the delivery of commodities from the Gulf area to the Atlantic seaboard area, is there any reason, in your opinion, Admiral, why that waterway should not be used to its maximum capacity? Rear Admiral HOTTELL. None that I can see.

Senator PEPPER. If certain oil or certain petroleum products can be carried in wooden barges, then by the construction of such wooden barges, that, as an existing waterway, would render considerable service to the country, would it not?

Rear Admiral HOTTELL. Yes, sir.

Senator PEPPER. That is all, I believe.

Senator CARAWAY. Are there any further questions? (No response.) If not, we thank you very much.

(The witness withdrew from the committee table.)

Senator CARAWAY. I think we will call on Congressman Rivers.

STATEMENT OF HON. L. MENDEL RIVERS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE FIRST DISTRICT OF SOUTH CAROLINA

Representative RIVERS. Madame Chairman, first of all I want to thank you for letting me testify before your committee.

I was one of the authors of the amendment which includes the pipe line from the Tinsley oil field to either Charleston, or Savannah, Ga.

We believe that the best way to build a pipe line is to start on the east coast and keep it going until you hit oil. The closest place to hit oil is the Tinsley field.

I proposed an amendment in the House which passed without one dissenting vote.

I realize fully, Madame Chairman, that legislation is not needed to construct a pipe line. We passed the Cole pipe-line bill last year which, among other things, takes care of the eminent domain features, giving the pipe-line people the right to condemn property and get by the State barriers whenever they meet them, after which the President