Mr. ROGERS. Are there any more questions? Thank you, Mr. Kluttz.

Mr. KLUTTZ. You are very welcome. I thank you very much for this courteous hearing.

(Thereupon, at 12.30 o'clock p. m., the committee went into executive session, and at 1.30 o'clock adjourned.)

(The following memorandum was subsequently submitted by Mr. Kluttz :)

CASES BEFORE THE INTERNATIONAL JOINT COMMISSION FROM 1912 to 1920.

Rainy River Improvement Co.
Watrous Island Boom Co.

Lake of the Woods levels.

Pollution of boundary waters.

Livingstone and other channels in the Detroit River.

Michigan Northern Power Co.

Greater Winnipeg water district.

Algoma Steel Corporation (Ltd.).

Milk and St. Mary Rivers.

The St. Croix Water Power Co.

Sprague's Falls Manufacturing Co. (Ltd.).

International Lumber Co.

United States Government for approval of the improvement of the St. Clair River at or near the town of Port Huron, Mich.

New York & Ontario Power Co.

St. Lawrence River Power Co.

Canadian Cottons (Ltd.).

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D. C., January 15, 1920.

The committee assembled at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. Stephen G. Porter (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. Who succeeded Mr. Tawney, Mr. Kluttz?

STATEMENT OF MR. WHITEHEAD KLUTTZ, SECRETARY INTERNATIONAL JOINT COMMISSION-Resumed.

Mr. KLUTTZ. He was succeeded by former Senator Clark of Wyoming Clarence D. Clark, of Evanston, Wyo.

The CHAIRMAN. When was Mr. Clark appointed?

Mr. KLUTTZ. He was appointed early last July, according to my best recollection; Mr. Tawney died on the 12th of June, and the appointment was made about three weeks after that.

The CHAIRMAN. 1919?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Has Mr. Clark ever taken part in a hearing since his appointment?

Mr. KLUTTZ. The minutes you have there show, I think, that the only meeting held since his appointment was the meeting in New York last November; he took part in that.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, the last meeting shown in your docket is of date April 3.

Mr. KLUTTZ. That is due to the fact that these others are not approved and are therefore in typewritten form. There is that one and the one at Ottawa in the front of that book [indicating]. They have not been written up; they are not yet approved.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you so busy that you have not had time to write them up?

Mr. KLUTTZ. They have not been approved; they are not put in the book until they are approved. Mr. Clark attended the meeting at Ottawa; I did not just now recall that; he attended that meeting but was called away by the illness and death of his daughter. He went to both of those sessions, the one at Ottawa in October and the one at New York in November.

Mr. ROGERS. Were all three commissioners at all three meetings? Mr. KLUTTZ. They were all three at the meeting in New York in November. Mr. Glenn was not at the meeting in Ottawa; he was at the meeting in New York.

Mr. ROGERS. And how about the third meeting? Was that in Washington?

Mr. KLUTTZ. There was a meeting in Washington in April, and a meeting in New York prior to that during the calendar year.

Mr. ROGERS. Were all three of these commissioners at both of those meetings?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Mr. Glenn was at the meeting in New York in November; he was not at the prior meetings on acount of ill health. Mr. ROGERS. He attended only one of the meetings?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Yes, sir; he attended only one of the meetings, due to ill health; his health is better now; he had a very serious breakdown. There is a draft of the minutes of that meeting at Ottawa and there is also a digest of it in this chronological abstract which I have brought up to date, taken from the minutes. The Ottawa draft does not appear in the written minutes for the reason I gave; but there is a full digest of it here in this record [indicating].

Mr. ROGERS. Was Mr. Gardner at all of the meetings?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Yes, sir; Mr. Gardner was at all of the meetings, and Mr. Clark has been at both meetings since he was appointed; and Mr. Glenn expects to be at all future meetings on account of the improvement in his health.

The CHAIRMAN. May I suggest to the committee that we have Mr. Kluttz prepare for us a statement showing the hearings held since January 1, 1919.

This record shows that the meetings in 1919 were as follows:

Tuesday, January 14, 1919, the commission met in New York City, Messrs, Gardner, Magrath, and Tawney being present; and Messrs. Powell and Glenn being absent. No quorum. Adjourned until Wednesday, January 15.

January 15, 1919, the commission met in the Biltmore Hotel, New York City, all members except Mr. Glenn present; continued in session during the day.

April 1, 1919, the commission met in Washington, Messrs. Gardner, Magrath, Powell, and Tawney being present; Mr. Glenn absent on account of illness, and the vacancy caused by the resignation of Mr. Mignault not having yet been filled.

April 2, 1919, the commission met in Washington, the same member being present as on April 1.

April 3, 1919, the commission again met in Washington, the same members being present as on the preceding days.

There the docket entries end for 1919.

Mr. Kluttz, however, has a typewritten memorandum showing that on November 20, 1919, a meeting was held in New York City; present Commissioners Gardner, Powell, Glenn, and Clark; and states that there was a regular meeting at Ottawa on October 3, 1919, at which Commissioners Magrath, Gardner, Powell, and Clark were present; Mr. Magrath presided.

Mr. HOUGHTON. Mr. Chairman, what constitutes a quorum of the commission?

The CHAIRMAN. I assume a majority.

Mr. HOUGHTON. That is, one Canadian and three Americans? How is that?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; that question would arise in this case.

Mr. HOUGHTON. I see that you adjourned for want of a quorum at one place.

Mr. KLUTTZ. I would assume from that adjournment that the interpretation was that it would require at least two of each section; that would seem to be the idea there, although a quorum of the commission is four, there being six members.

Mr. MASON. But not where it was a joint commission.

Mr. KLUTTZ. I would think not.

Mr. MASON. It takes a majority of both sections; for instance, if it was bipartite agreement or a joint agreement. It would take a majority for, for instance, in a legislative body where they meet in joint session to elect a United States Senator having failed to elect separately; the courts have held that a quorum there means a majority of both of those bodies.

Mr. HOUGHTON. I assumed that; and I wondered what the rule of this commission was.

Mr. KLUTTZ. Apparently that was the rule.

Mr. HOUGHTON. Apparently it is; but that is a deduction; you do not know.

Mr. KLUTTZ. I can only assume it; that is all.

Mr. ROGERS. May I ask also if it is provided in the rules or the by-laws of the commission that meetings shall be held at least once every quarter?

Mr. KLUTTZ. No, sir; there are two regular meetings provided for, one the first Tuesday in April, at Washington, and one the first Tuesday in October, at Ottawa; those are regular meetings; the others are special meetings. Those two meetings were duly held during the year, as you will notice from the docket.

I want to say, in regard to the quorum at New York, that it appears from the reading of the minutes that Mr. Powell was detained in Northern Canada by a snow-bound train, and arrived later. I can give you the information you want in a very few minutes.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you let me ask you a few questions, and then you can give it.

Mr. KLUTTZ. Certainly.

The CHAIRMAN. You stated yesterday that the inability of the commission to meet was due to the fact that the Canadian Government had not appointed a commissioner to take the place of the commissioner who had died?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Resigned.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, it was not necessary to have that commissioner present, so far as the quorum was concerned, was it, if the two other Canadian commissioners were able to act?

Mr. KLUTTZ. No, sir. It was necessary in order to reach any decision upon matters pending before the commission to have a full commission, in the judgment of the commission, as set forth in the minutes, when they requested the Canadian Government to make this appointment as early as possible, as they did in New York in January and in Ottawa in October; and Mr. Glenn, while he was ill, was able to sign any orders or opinions, and did so in some cases; whereas there was an absolute vacancy on the Canadian side. Thought he could not come to those meetings, could study questions and could sign decisions and orders.

The CHAIRMAN. You have prepared for the committee the chronological abstract of sessions held during the year 1917?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Yes, sir; 1917, 1918, and 1919.

The CHAIRMAN. And this abstract is taken from the record book which I have before me?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And shows all of the meetings?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the matters considered since January 1, 1917, to date?

Mr. KLUTTZ. Yes, sir; that is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. I think, gentlemen, that that should be printed as a part of the hearings, as it shows definitely exactly what duties were performed by the commission.

(The statement referred to is as follows:)

INTERNATIONAL JOINT COMMISSION.

CHRONOLOGICAL ABSTRACT OF SESSIONS DURING CALENDAR YEAR 1917.

Minneapolis, Minn. (special session).

January 22, 1917. Considered the application of the International Lumber Co. for approval of its application to obstruct the waters of the Rainy River at International Falls, Minn., hearing legal and engineering representatives of both governments. Adopted order curing delay in filing statements in response and reply statement.

January 23, 1917. Resumed consideration of the application of the International Lumber Co. for approval of its application to obstruct the waters of the Rainy River at International Falls, Minn.

January 24 1917. Concluded consideration of the application of the International Lumber Co. for approval of its application to obstruct the waters of the Rainy River at International Falls, Minn.

Considered special report of Mr. W. F. Tye on the effect of the proposed levels in Rainy Lake upon the Canadian Northern Railway and heard the legal and engineering representatives of the railway and the commission's engineer, Mr. Meyer, thereon.

January 25, 1917. Concluded the hearing in reference to the effect of the proposed levels in Rainy Lake on the tracks of the Canadian Northern Railway.

161477-20-15

In executive session considered various communications and administrative matters. Granted extension of 30 days in time for filing statement in response by the Dominion Government. Adopted resolution of sympathy upon the death of Th. Chase Casgrain, postmaster general of Canada, and for several years one of the chairmen of the commission. Directed secretaries to ask mill owners to discontinue practice of polluting with refuse the waters of the St. John River in Maine and New Brunswick. Extended thanks to the Civic and Commerce Association of Minnesota for the dinner in its honor. Directed the preservation of the data in the pollution of boundary waters and Lake of the Woods investigations.

January 26, 1917. Considered its final report in the Lake of the Woods investigation.

January 27, 1917. Considered its final report in the Lake of the Woods investigation.

Washington, D. C. (regular session).

April 3, 1917. Considered important official correspondence. Adopted report of committee on rules for conduct of its public sessions.

Heard the chief counsel of the Reclamation Service, who made formal application for a supplemental argument of the matter of the measurement and apportionment of the waters of the Milk and St. Mary Rivers and their tributaries in the United States and Canada. Col. C. S. MacInnes, K. C., counsel for the Dominion Government, appeared in regard to the same matter. Adopted an order granting the application for such supplemental argument. Adopted a mode of procedure for consideration in conference of the questions involved in the final report in the Lake of the Woods investigation, to be followed by consideration of the committee's draft report.

April 4, 1917. Considered its final report in the Lake of the Woods reference. April 5, 1917. Resumed consideration of the final report in the Lake of the Woods reference.

Heard counsel for the Dominion Government and the United States War Department in regard to the request of the Dominion Government for an extension of time in which to file a reply statement to the application of the United States Government for approval of proposed improvements in the channel of the St. Clair River at Port Huron, Mich., and granted such extension, with the assent of counsel for the War Department.

April 6, 1917. In the forenoon visited Mount Vernon as guests of the Department of State, and the Canadian commissioners placed a wreath upon the tomb of Washington.

Met and resumed consideration of the Lake of the Woods report in the afternoon.

April 7, 1917. Resumed consideration of the final report in the Lake of the Woods reference.

April 9, 1917. Resumed consideration of the final report in the Lake of the Woods reference.

April 10, 1917. Resumed consideration of the final report in the Lake of the Woods reference.

April 11, 1917. Resumed consideration of the final report in the Lake of the Woods reference.

April 12, 1917. Resumed consideration of the final report in the Lake of the Woods reference.

Designated Commissioner Mignault to prepare a tentative order in the matter of the Application of the International Lumber Co.

Toronto, Canada (special session).

May 2. 1917. Met in the Parliament Building and considered administrative business, including printing of application of the United States Government in the St. Clair River case and the collection of costs from the applicant in the International Lumber Co. case.

Took up consideration of the final report of the Lake of the Woods reference. May 3, 1917. Considered request of the Canadian Government for further extension of time for filing Canada's statement in response in the St. Clair River case.

Resumed consideration of the final report on the Lake of the Woods refer

ence.

May 5, 1917. Concluded consideration of final report on the Lake of the Woods reference.