Mr. BARNARD. Of the 43 miles, 23 miles was done along the St. Croix River, Me., and 20 miles along the Pigeon River, Minn. The CHAIRMAN. And are you also working along the Alaskan boundary?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many crews have you 1?

Mr. BARNARD. The field work on the Alaskan boundary is completed. It is proposed to do some additional field work there during the coming season, rendered necessary by the mining activities. The CHAIRMAN. How long do you calculate it will take to complete this work?

Mr. BARNARD. I figure that this commission should entirely complete their labors in five or six years the field work is done, gentlemen, but there is a boundary dispute on the St. Croix River that we may come to an agreement on at any date, or we may drift along for a year or two. There will have to be a few monuments set there. There is this examination on the boundary line near the Portland Canal in Alaska. This completes all of the field work with the exception, possibly, of setting monuments that may be destroyed. before the report is submitted. The rest of the work will be office work and it will probably take some five or six years longer to get out the reports.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, after you prepare the reports, will it be necessary to go back and reset monuments at various places?

Mr. BARNARD. In my opinion, gentlemen, it would be wise if some provision were made for the maintenance of this boundary line in the future. As developments take place it will be necessary to interpolate additional monuments along the boundary line, monuments that are damaged or destroyed should be repaired or rebuilt. On the boundary line along the water portion it will occasionally be necessary to move boundary monuments from their present location to the new sites.

Mr. ROGERS. In sparsely occupied and settled areas what is the maximum difference of distance between monuments?

Mr. BARNARD. On the boundary line along the 141st meridian, 4 miles, except south of the White River, where the boundary is mostly over snow fields; on the boundary line west of the summit of the Rocky Mountains, 4 miles. That is the maximum. On the Alaskan coast boundary lines the distance between monuments is sometimes up to 8 or 10 miles, because it is across a snow-capped country that is practically inaccessible.

Mr. ROGERS. Is there any point in our boundary where the twists and turns are quite numerous except where a river form the boundary, of course?

Mr. BARNARD. No; the boundary from the Arctic Ocean to Mt. St. Elias is a meridian line, and is located as a straight line. The boundary along the 49th Parallel is composed of straight lines, as is the northeast boundary.

Mr. MOORES. The line from the Arctic Ocean to Mount St. Elias is not marked at all?

Mr. BARNARD. Oh, yes, it is marked by aluminum bronze monuments three feet high, and at other points, five feet high, set in concrete, until you reach south of the White River, where the boundary line passes over snowfields.

Mr. MOORES. Well, that is what I want to ask, about the White River. How far apart are the monuments in that Susitna district? Mr. BARNARD. Gentlemen, I have an atlas right here. [Whereupon the witness proceeded to point out on the maps the locations of the monuments along the boundary line.]

Mr. BARNARD. It was impracticable to set monuments in that district north of Mount St. Elias, because if we set them there we would have to set them in the snow, and they would soon be covered up.

Mr. MOORES. That is more than 10,000 feet up?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes. I am just simply pointing out this triangulation station, which is marked by a thermos bottle on stick. I do not know whether you read about it or not, but there were three gentlemen who reached practically the top of Mount St. Elias without any special equipment, which is one of the most remarkable trips I

know of.

Mr. MASON. Is that printed in this?

Mr. BARNARD. It is all printed in the report, in which there is a very graphical description as to how they reached this point here [indicating on map], and it was only that a snowstorm came up that prevailed for two days that prevented them from reaching the top of Mount St. Elias without any special equipment at all.

Mr. ROGERS. There is no station located on that mountain 16,000 feet above sea level?

Mr. BARNARD. No; they reached that point [indicating on map] and they had planned to go on to the top. It was only 2,000 feet above them, but a snowstorm came up and they were short of supplies and had to get out to save their lives.

Mr. MASON. What season of the year that they were there?

Mr. BARNARD. I think it was in July or August. I forget exactly which.

The CHAIRMAN. How long will it take to complete the field work? Mr. BARNARD. The field work will be all completed next summer. It is practically completed now.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, next year when you come in with the estimates for an appropriation you will be prepared to tell us that it is all completed?

Mr. BARNARD. Well, as I said, it is practically completed now, and we had just a few monuments to put up on the St. Croix River, where there is a dispute. It would have been monumented long ago, but my colleague could not agree with me; we could not agree as to the location of the boundary line.

This work to be done on the boundary along the Alaskan boundary could not have been foreseen, and I predict that in the future it will be necessary to do additional work on the Alaskan coast boundary, should valuable minerals be found in the vicinity of that line.

The CHAIRMAN. How long will it take-I believe you said that it would take five years to complete the office work?

Mr. BARNARD. The office work?

The CHAIRMAN. That is, in the preparation of maps, and evidence of the boundary for filing purposes?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, Mr. Chairman; there are six reports similar to the one which you have received that have yet to be published by

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the commission, which involves a great amount of work, and before the maps can be engraved and printed the triangulation observations must be accurately adjusted. There are yet to be adjusted and computed some 8,000 triangulations. There are in the vicinity of approximately 270 maps to be engraved and printed to complete the work. The process of having these maps engraved, proof read, finally approved, and printed-finally approved and signed by the British commissioner and myself-involves considerable time, but I believe

The CHAIRMAN. Is this office work done in Washington?

Mr. BARNARD. A part of it is done in Washington and a part of it in Ottawa, Canada. We divide it.

The CHAIRMAN. How many men have you employed at the present time?

Mr. BARNARD. There are 14 on the rolls besides myself.

Mr. MOORES. How many men has the Canadian Government taken away by paying better wages?

Mr. BARNARD. None.

Mr. MOORES. Since when?

Mr. BARNARD. They have not taken any since we established this commission.

Mr. MOORES. I went down the Yukon River with a man who said that he had left the American forces and joined the Canadians because they paid them better than you did.

Mr. BARNARD. They have taken our temporary men, but it would not be good business-as we are working together for one common end-for us to take each other's men.

Mr. MOORES. Well, their force is all Canadian?

Mr. BARNARD. Their force is all Canadian, as our force is composed of United States citizens.

Mr. ROGERS. You propose to complete 43 miles, about, this year? Mr. BARNARD. That was for the fiscal year ended June 30.

Mr. ROGERS. Was that work necessary to complete the survey; was that actually the first time that work was done?

Mr. BARNARD. That was actually new work.

Mr. ROGERS. So that is really all the new work that you have to do? Mr. BARNARD. That is really all of the new work; yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS. Your appropriations until lately used to be something like $100,000, did it not?

Mr. BARNARD. Gentlemen, I have made up here a table showing the appropriations received, the balances that were available from previous appropriations, and the funds that were available for each fiscal year, with the expenditures of the last fiscal year, which shows everything fully since I have been commissioner.

(The table referred to above is printed in the record, as follows:)

Statement of funds available and expenditures, United States section, International (Canadian) Boundary Commissioners, for the fiscal years 19161920.

Classification of expenditures for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1919. [Exclusive of vouchers passed up to Aug. 1, 1918, covering indebtedness incurred prior to July 1, 1918, included in previous classification.]

Mr. HOUGHTON. I do not understand, Mr. Barnard, with regard to this balance of $12,000 which is on hand.

Mr. BARNARD. That is from the July 1, estimate.

Mr. HOUGHTON. In addition, you want $15,000 additional?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOUGHTON. Making available some $27,000 more than last year.

Mr. BARNARD. No, sir; it won't be more than last year. The estimated expenses for next year are $67,000. The expenses for last year $60,000, so it is only really $7,000 larger and I inherited $9,000 in bills that should have been paid last year, which will have to come

out of this.

Mr. HOUGHTON. Well, you apparently have a balance of $12,000? Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir; there will be.

Mr. HOUGHTON. And then you are asking for $15,000 more, that makes $27,000.

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOUGHTON. Now, you want that $27,000 so that these maps and reports may be printed.

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOUGHTON. And the atlases, and so that you can go on with this work.

Mr. BARNARD. This work on the Alaskan boundary.

Mr. HOUGHTON. So you wish that in addition to that $15,000 which you consider essential?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir; I think it is absolutely essential. It may be that some of it will go over, but I want to have this money so I can engrave and make contracts for having the engraving and printing and binding done. Now, I had expected to complete that binding during last year. It was delayed so that I could not get it done. It will be paid out of this appropriation, because it was not completed until December. That is a bill for $3,000.

Mr. HOUGHTON. Well, suppose we do not give you $15,000 in addition to that that you now have, and over what you had last year, what will be the result?

Mr. BARNARD. I estimate that—

Mr. HOUGHTON. You say that you want to have plenty of money to carry on this work.

Mr. BARNARD. I want to have plenty of money to provide for contracts. I have no business contracting anything until I have the money in sight.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been commissioner?

Mr. BARNARD. Since April 30, 1915.

The CHAIRMAN. Who preceded you?

Mr. BARNARD. Mr. O. H. Pittman.

The CHAIRMAN. All of the 14 employees are permanent employees which you have; how many of those are clerks, performing purely clerical work?

Mr. BARNARD. Two; the chief clerk, who also acts as disbursing officer, and custodian of property, and one stenographer.

The CHAIRMAN. Is your office located in a Government building? Mr. BARNARD. No; my office is in the National Savings and Trust Building.

The CHAIRMAN. What rental do you pay?

Mr. BARNARD. We pay $2,240 per year.

The CHAIRMAN. What percentage of your appropriation goes for overhead charges, such as rental, clerk hire, excluding, of course, your own salary?

Mr. BARNARD. The rental is $2,240, not more than 10 per centless than 10 per cent, I should say; that is, the rental is $2,240, and in addition to that the salaries are $3,320. That would make about $5,500, out of an expenditure of $60,000 or $67,000, as estimated for the year.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, as I understand you, after you have completed the office work and what little remains of the field work, the commission has performed the duties that it was required to perform under the treaty. At that time the commission can be abolished?

Mr. BARNARD. The commission automatically ceases. Now, I really think that the duties of the commission with reference to the treaty of 1906 have been completed and their services terminated by the filing of the report.

The CHAIRMAN. The filing of the final report will terminate the commission?

Mr. BARNARD. That terminates the commission.