Mr. BEGG. That answers my question.

Mr. CARR. There is not any question at all about the depreciation of gold salaries in China and some of the other countries where silver is at a premium.

Mr. CONNALLY. I am in favor of fixing proper salaries in United States money all over the world, and if the salary is too low I would make it higher, and if the salary is too high I want to lower it. I am not in favor of this kind of a policy. If a consul who is living over there and getting $2,500 salary and can not live on it, let us give him whatever is necessary for him to live on, and let him look after the exchange. I do not believe in doing business. in this way. It is not a fair test, because you only get the testimony of a lot of fellows in China who are out of joint, and you get the testimony of some other fellows in some other place who are out of joint, and we have to take what they say about it. seems to me that the best way to do is to add this difference brought about by the difference in the exchange rate to their salaries, and not to legislate in this way. You can not take the conditions that. exist in one country and legislate to meet those conditions and then apply that to conditions in the rest of the world.

It

Mr. CARR. If you will permit me a word there, I would like to say that within seven or eight months-I think it can be done in that time-the State Department will, I hope, have a system worked out by which we will do practically what Bradstreets and other agencies of that kind do, fix an index number for each country, based upon a certain number of commodities entering into the cost of living there. I think we will be able to give you a pretty close mathematical rule for measuring the correctness of the amounts. we ask you to appropriate. If you attempt to fix salaries in China. and exchange goes wrong in Chile, you have two fixed salaries then, and if you want to transfer a man from China to Chile, you will have a man in China getting $5,000 a year according to the salary fixed by Congress, when he ought to have only $2,500 a year in Chile, and you will be wasting $2,500 a year; whereas, if in addition to a moderate salary you had a lump sum distributable upon the basis of a definite system such as I suggest, we will have a perfectly flexible method, one which has been adopted and which was used very greatly by Germany before the war and which will continue to be used by France, and by Italy, and which is admitted to be the most feasible and really the soundest method of arranging the salaries in the service where you are dealing with so many different conditions.

(Whereupon, the committee adjourned to meet to-morrow, Tuesday, January 13, 1920, at 10 o'clock a. m.)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Tuesday, January 13, 1920.

DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR APPROPRIATION BILL FOR 1921.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Carr, I believe you were down to line 17 on page 18 at the conclusion of the hearing yesterday.

STATEMENT OF MR. WILBUR J. CARR, DIRECTOR OF THE
CONSULAR SERVICE-Resumed.

Mr. CARR. Mr. Chairman, if I may ask the indulgence of the committee for just a moment I would like to correct my testimony with regard to the first paragraph on page 18, which is with regard to the settlements of salaries of officers of the United States Court for China, expenses for two preceding years. That item originated in this way: There was formerly a post-allowance appropriation made for the officers in China, based upon exchange, but did not include officers of the court for China. The instructions, however, were inadvertently conveyed to the officers of the court by the legation, and the officers collected their post allowance according to the rule laid down for the diplomatic and consular officers. Their accounts were disallowed and they were held indebted to the Government for that amount of money. They came before Congress and asked for the insertion of this provision in the appropriation act for the settlement of those accounts out of the appropriation already made by Congress. The post-allowance expenses have since been extended to the court officers. This paragraph may very well come out of the bill.

Mr. BROWNE. Which paragraph is that?

Mr. CARR. The first paragraph on page 18. I am sorry I did not recall that yesterday when I testified before the committee:

Mr. MOORES. I move that it be taken out, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. We can do that when we mark up the bill, Mr. Moores.

Mr. MOORES. It can be done by consent.

Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Carr, there is just one more inquiry on that point that I would like to make. In the current post allowance, is a provision included for the officers for the court for China? Mr. CARR. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS. Because, of course, it is a retroactive provision. Mr. CARR. Quite so.

Mr. ROGERS. For the fiscal year ending last June.

Mr. CARR. Last June, but it was inserted in the current appropriation in moving the court for China.

Mr. ROGERS. In the acts for 1918?

Mr. CARR. 1918-19.

Mr. ROGERS. Yes.

Mr. MASON. What is the next item, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. CARR. Yes, sir; that is my recollection.

INTERNATIONAL OFFICE OF PUBLIC HEALTH.

The CHAIRMAN. Line 17, page 18, "International Office of Public Health." Have you anything to say with regard to that, Mr. Carr.

Mr. CARR. Nothing other than that it is included with the first item on page 19 in this general statement. That is one of those international obligations which we incurred by virtue of a treaty and to which we are as a government expected to pay a certain membership fee. This is our membership fee in that organization, and it is a legal as well as a moral obligation on the Government.

INTERNATIONAL SEISMOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION.

Mr. MASON. What is that International Seismological Association? Mr. CARR. The International Seismological Association is an association which is devoted to the study of earthquakes, and in regard to that, I might say, that in addition to that they have several other associations embraced in this bill, such as the Radiotelegraph Convention, on page 20, the International Geodetic Association, on page 22. All of these are scientific bodies, and some of them were called into existence on the initiative of the German scientific bodies. Their future is at the present moment being discussed by the International Research Council. It is an international scientific association, and met last August or September at Brussels. They took up the whole question of the disposition of the different scientific bureaus and they are not yet ready to present to the Government of the United States a concrete plan for the handling of those international bureaus, but it is probably going to be found necessary to have a general rearrangement of them. A number of these bureaus are, I think, specially mentioned as bureaus to be brought up under the League of Nations when that goes into effect, so that while the Government is legally bound to pay its quota, the disposition of these international associations is likely to undergo a change in the very near future, when I presume the question of quota will also be revised, as well.

That is all, Mr. Chairman.

PECUNIARY CLAIMS COMMISSION.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is on line 6, of page 19, arbitration of outstanding pecuniary claims between United States and Great Britain.

Mr. CARR. That was brought into existence by virtue of a treaty, an agreement between the United States and Great Britain; and the only purpose of this small appropriation is to keep a very small number of people who have knowledge of the records of this claims commission and can therefore assist inquirers and others who may want to know or need to know what took place before the commission. The work of the commission was suspended when the war broke out, and has not yet been resumed. Presumably it will be resumed at some time in the future.

Mr. ROGERS. We formerly expended $65,000 annually for this work.

Mr. CARR. The only purpose of this is to hold together the records and the library, and have somebody there that is acquainted with them to examine the records for the benefit of those persons who have an interest in questions which have been before the commission.

Mr. HOUGHTON. This money will be expended during the coming year.

PEACE PALACE AT THE HAGUE.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is line 19, page 19, "Peace palace at The Hague."

Mr. CARR. There is an obligation on the part of the Government to pay our part of the maintenance of this palace.

INTERNATIONAL RADIOTELEGRAPHIC CONVENTION.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is line 1, page 20, " International Radiotelegraphic Convention."

Mr. CARR. That is also an international obligation based upon a treaty.

Mr. ROGERS. The next item, "United States section of the International High Commission," was very fully taken by Dr. Rowe.

WATERWAYS TREATY, UNITED STATES AND GREAT BRITAIN.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is line 15, page 20, "Waterways treaty, United States and Great Britain: International Joint Comnission, United States and Great Britain."

Mr. CARR. I think that probably the committee will, as usual, wish to hear from the chairman or secretary of that commission rather than from me. There is no increase in that appropriation asked for. The CHAIRMAN. Who is chairman of that commission? Mr. CARR. I do not know who is chairman now. 1 will get in touch with them. They have offices in the Southern Building, and Mr. Kluttz is secretary of the commission.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you have the chairman here to-morrow at 10 o'clock?

Mr. CARR. To-morrow morning at 10 o'clock; yes, sir.

THIRD PAN AMERICAN SCIENTIFIC CONGRESS.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is, "Third Pan American Scientific Congress," at line 17, page 21.

Mr. CARR. That was covered by Dr. Rowe, as was also "Fifth International Conference of American States," at line 23.

PAYMENT TO PANAMA.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is at line 12, page 22, "Payment to the Government of Panama."

Mr. CARR. That is payment to the Government of Panama in pursuance of our treaty of November 18, 1903, and is the payment we make for the privilege of constructing the Panama Canal. Mr. MASON. That is the ninth annual payment?

GEODETIC ASSOCIATION.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is in line 18, on page 22, "International Geodetic Association for the measurement of the earth."

Mr. CARR. With regard to the International Geodetic Association. the same may be said of that that was said a moment ago as to the seismological association. Its status is uncertain. It is an association orginally organized by some scientists of Prussia, and, therefore, its continuance in the present form is now under consideration by the International Research Council and by the International Scientific Congress, members of which met and discussed the subject last August or September.

While the Government has an obligation to keep up its observatory, which is located at Ukiah, Calif., until the disposition of the association can be determined, it is not known what the future of the association will be. It is believed, however, that we should continue to support our observatory at Ukiah, Calif.

Mr. ROGERS. That observatory is appropriated for, I presume, through the sundry civil bill?

Mr. CARR. My recollection is that this is all the appropriation made for it.

Mr. ROGERS. I presumed that it costs very much more than $1,500 a year to maintain the observatory.

Mr. CARR. As a matter of fact, it costs a very little more than that. Mr. MASON. I presume that some of the expenses are paid by the Navy Department; I suppose the Navy officers are paid through the regular naval appropriations.

Mr. CARR. We used to pay $4,000 into the association. The association in turn alloted to this country, or rather spent in this country more than that sum for the maintenance of two small observatories, one out at Ukiah, Calif., and the other, Gaithersburg, Md. When the war broke out, and the Allies went to war with Germany, the allied governments then undertook the support of the observatories in their territories themselves. Congress made a small appropriation-I forget what it was a very small appropriation by which the United States undertook to maintain this observatory at Ukiah, Calif., and the one at Gaithersburg, Md. Afterwards the Gaithersburg observatory ceased to be a charge on that appropriation and the observatory at Ukiah is the only one that is kept up.

Japan likewise took control over and supported the observatories located in her territory. That condition still exists. Now, you notice this appears only to pay for our membership in the association. We have our membership fee in the association and that, whatever sum it is, that is spent for the maintenance of that observatory at Ukiah, is to be deducted from whatever quota is due from the United States. In other words, when the final account is rendered these amounts that we have spent on our observatories in this country will be deducted from the amount due from us under the general rules of the association.

Our regular membership fee was $1,500, and then we began in 1915 to spend $3,000. That was merely for the upkeep of the observatory at Ukiah. So that, instead of there being an appropriation in some other bill, it appears that the amount spent there is really what is inserted in this bill-$1,500 a year. Does that answer your question?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, indeed.

Mr. DICKINSON. Is there any particular reason why that item should not be cut out of the bill?

Mr. CARR. It is one of the bureaus we discussed yesterday. We are a member of this association and have been for a long time, along with a number of other governments. If we do not provide for our membership fee, we shall be asked for it some day and then have o provide for it in a deficiency act. So, it is just about as broad as t is long as I see it. In this case, we supported our own observatory on the theory that whatever the support cost us would be deducted from our regular quota, and I believe that we ought to continue to