MR. G. W. CLABAUGH (Omaha, Neb.):--I would answer that by saying that we have run pipes to a very large number of houses, and have sold to a large number of consumers; and in doing that we do not come in conflict with the plumbers in any way; we do not do it at cost; we make a slight profit on it. In the gas business we do lots of things for nothing, and it is all right; but we do not do everything for nothing. If you try to give away everything you have got, it will not be long before the Legislature will come to you and say: "If you can give so much away why do you not reduce the price of gas for the benefit of the many, instead of the few to whom you are giving these things?" That is what I want to anticipate. You can pipe these houses without any trouble by proper solicitation. Go after them, and offer to do the work cheaply--and you can do it cheaply—and you may make a profit on it.

MR. G. H. HARPER (Altoona, Pa.):- Following up Mr. Clabaugh's remarks, and also those of Mr. Rice, I will state that in the town which I represent we have just completed a canvass of the entire city-not going beyond the line of existing mains; and, by the use of the card system of indexing, we have at hand and in convenient form, information as to every house on the line of our mains, whether it is piped or otherwise; if piped, whether they are using gas; if they use gas, for what purpose, whether for light or fuel; what fuel appliances are used; whether hot plates, ranges, or otherwise; and whether the ranges are satisfactory; the number of rooms in the house; whether the occupant owns or rents. So that when we go to these people at any time in order to solicit them to use gas we know positively just what their requirements are, and what are our chances of success. I know positively that were the company in a position to take full advantage of the information obtained we could increase our business twenty-five per

cent

MR. F. H. SHELTON (Philadelphia):-I know of one company which, by an expenditure of five per cent. of its capital account has increased its business nearly one hundred per cent. within less than six months.

THE PRESIDENT:-It is not the disposition of the chair to curtail this discussion, for it is very interesting; but we have a great deal before us, and unless some member has something more to say I will call upon Mr. Moses to close his discussion.

MR. F. D. MOSES (Trenton, N. J.):-I have made a few notes of the suggestions made by members in the discussion. A few days ago a man came into our office and remarked that he came from the West; and that he heated his house from Washington's Birthday to Thanksgiving Day with gas at $1.00 a thousand. found that it was the most economical way of heating it. But from Thanksgiving Day to Washington's Birthday the weather was so cold that it was necessary to use a furnace. We are trying now to sell small coke stoves for three or four dollars, to be put in the kitchen, to warm the kitchen during the winter months, and to use our coke. A kitchen does not require the same degree of heat that any other room in a dwelling house does, because there you are moving around nearly all the time and therefore do not require the same heat that you do in a sitting room. A great deal of our out-put at present is used by the working people, who get up late in the morning, and have to use the gas stove in order to get breakfast in a hurry. We usually run a hundred feet of main for each new consumer secured on a street, and the average gas bills have increased from $1.70 to $2.26 per month, by the meter,-showing that they are all using more gas. We have something like seven or eight solicitors out all the time. We do not send them over the same territory twice, only where they have some prospect of selling. We always keep the best man until the last-and the last is a lady. She goes after them, and she either gets them as customers, or talks them to death. We also have a professional baker-not a cook-but a regular baker, and he goes around and teaches the families how to bake with a gas stove. Those people do not care much about learning to make lobster Newburg, but they want to know how to bake bread and biscuits; and this man teaches them how to do it; and if they will let him, he will make up a batch of bread while there.

A MEMBER-I move a vote of thanks to Mr. Moses for his paper. I think that he has given us a great deal of information which will be useful to all those who are in the gas business. We have known that he has accomplished very great results, and in a very original way; and what he has accomplished will encourage members in other places to try to do the same thing. It has stimulated them to put forth great energy.

The motion was seconded and carried.

THE PRESIDENT:-While upon this subject, and inasmuch as

Mr. Moses, who represents this Association on the Committee on Advertising, is obliged to leave the city to-night, to give him an opportunity to report for his Committee, I will call upon him now to read the report. A year ago a Committee was appointed by this Association to make a report before this meeting upon some scheme of advertising-some scheme of co-operative advertising, or national advertising, or along such lines. The Ohio Association has appointed a Committee, as also has the Western Association. Both of those Committees have made their report; and we will now hear the report from Mr. Moses.

Mr. F. D. MOSES (Trenton, N. J):—In obedience to the request of your commission, your Committee has looked into the matter of National Gas Advertising, and have to report to you as follows: In order to carry out the matter of national advertising of gas, a fund would have to be created. This money could be obtained by small assessments on the gas companies determined by the benefit they would receive. According to figures given in the gas directory, there are 32,000,000 people in this country, either supplied by gas, or who could be reached by gas companies. If every company would be willing to subscribe $1.50 per year for every one thousand of the population it could supply, it would give $48,000 for general advertising; supposing that only companies representing one-third of this population should subscribe to the fund, $16,000 would be subscribed. This money would be used for magazine and bill board advertisements, and for the maintenance of a bureau for distribution of advertising matter. Monthly magazine advertisements have been used to much advantage to popularize different commodities, and ten of the leading, publishers in the country have been asked to furnish figures for advertising in their periodicals, and their figures show that the cost per page per month is from $250 to $4,000, which price is governed mostly by the circulation. For about $2,000 per month we could have a quarter page advertisement in all the leading magazines, and six months advertising, which we would probably use per year, would cost $12,000. With a fair proportion of the companies subscribing we could place the word "Gas" before the public as often as they now see the names of different kinds of soap, pills and biscuits; and the cost to gas companies would hardly be noticeable. Take for instance a gas company in a town of forty thousand inhabitants, their assessment would be only sixty

dollars per year, or five dollars per month, and even the smallest possible results would fully reimburse them for their subscription.

Your Committee would also suggest that a Bureau be established that would be a "clearing house" of gas advertising matter, where all companies could send any advertising matter or designs that would be of interest to the others; this matter could be put in pamphlet form together with ideas by gas managers, and any other matters of interest to the subject. These pamphlets would be furnished free to subscribers, and those companies not subscribing could get them at a price determined by the cost of compiling them. Your Committee requests the right to work with the Committees of the other Gas Associations, and to be also empowered to solicit subscriptions to the fund, and commence work as soon as possible. The matter has been under discussion for several years, and as we have only met once a year progress has been slow, but if the start is made now the results of one year's work will be so surprising that all gas companies in the country will gladly contribute to the fund.

In connection with that I would state that the several advertising agencies that we have talked with want from five to ten per cent. of the cost of the advertising matter to place the advertisements of the Committee. I can see no use of this cost, and I do not think that anybody can write an advertisement as to gas better than a gas man can do it.

I have a letter from Mr. Doherty, a member of the Com: mittee who cannot get to this meeting, which Mr. Persons will read, if you desire.

MR. F. R. PERSONS (Toledo, Ohio):-I have read the letter over since I have been here and think it very interesting. Mr. Doherty says:

"My faith in the results of national advertising have never wavered for a moment. If I had the time I would be glad to show my confidence in our ability to raise the fund required; but conditions have so changed with me that I have become incompetent to do any of the work. I would resign from the Committee did I not believe that I would be free to take up the work again in the near future."

He proposes to take up the work of national advertising by and by. Mr. Doherty is the President of the Ohio Association and is

on the Committee of the Western Association on this subject. We have a Committee in the Ohio Association similar to this in the National.

MR. WM. H. WHITE (New York City):-I move that this report be received, and the request of the Committee, that it be empowered to associate itself with the Committees of other Associations, to go forward with the work with the consent and endorsement of this Association be granted.

MR. T. LITTLEHALES (Syracuse, N. Y.):—I second that motion. MR. F. H. SHELTON (Philadelphia):-Before that question is put I would like to ask for a little more information on this subject. As I understand that report, it contemplates that the Committee be empowered to at once commence upon their work by asking subscriptions from the various gas companies. I do not understand that any general or joint final action has been determined upon. I do not understand who is going to be responsible for determining just what advertising will be done. I may not have gotten the full force of this report, but my impression is that it mostly centers upon magazine advertising. This kind of advertising reaches every gas company in the country, and it reaches the customers of every gas company in the country. If only onethird of the gas companies of the country subscribe to this advertising fund, the other two-thirds will get the benefit of the money of the one-third. Are there other lines of advertising that the Committee contemplate? Will they advertise by means of bill boards, posters, and other local advertising? I would, of course, assume that other lines of advertising would be put out only in the cities of those who have subscribed to the fund. Those who have not subscribed could hardly expect to have any bill posting done. It seems to me reasonable that before acting as an Association on this matter we should understand more clearly what it is contemplated by the Committee shall be done, and determine for ourselves the advisability of joining in the work. As now presented it seems to me to be rather nebulous; and I do not think that the Association should as yet go on record as advocating this matter. Let us understand what it is proposed that we shall endorse before we stand for it. I for one would like to have more accurate information as to what is proposed and contemplated. I do not want to be considered as obstructive, because I thoroughly believe