NATIONAL FORESTS AND THE PUBLIC DOMAIN TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 1925 UNITED STATES SENATE, Ely, Nev. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10.45 o'clock a. m., in the court room of the White Pine County courthouse, at Ely, Nev., Tuesday, November 17, 1925, Senator Tasker L. Oddie (acting chairman) presiding. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. Mr. TOWNSEND. This meeting is called for the United States Senate investigation committee. Senator Oddie, a member of that committee, has been delegated by its chairman to hold this hearing, which has been requested by a number of the livestock men of White Pine and adjoining counties. As you are already fully acquainted with the subjects to be discussed, I will not take up any more of your time. I take pleasure in introducing to you, Senator Tasker L. Oddie, who will act as chairman of the meeting. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I will read to you the resolution of the United States Senate which authorizes these meetings. It was enacted at the last session of Congress. It will be made a part of the record. (The resolution presented by Senator Oddie for the record is here printed in full, as follows:) SENATE RESOLUTION 347 Resolved, That the Committee on Public Lands and Surveys, or any duly authorized subcommittee thereof, is authorized to investigate all matters relating to national forests and to the public domain and their administration, including grazing lands, forest reserves, and other reservations and lands withdrawn from entry. For the purpose of this resolution such committee or subcommittee is authorized to hold hearings and to sit and act at such places and times; to employ such experts and clerical, stenographic, and other assistants; to require by subpoena or otherwise the attendance of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents; to administer such oaths and to take such testimony and make such expeditures as it deems advisable. The cost of stenographic service to report such hearings shall not be in excess of 25 cents per hundred words. The expense of such committee or subcommittee shall be paid from the contingent fund of the Senate. The committee or subcommittee shall make a final report to the Senate as to its findings at the beginning of the first regular session of the Sixty-ninth Congress, together with recommendations for such legislation as it deems necessary. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The subcommittee of the Senate Public Lands Committee that was appointed at the last session has been holding hearings this summer in the 11 public-land States. We have already had a number of hearings in the State of Nevada, and I have been authorized by Chairman Stanfield, of our committee, to hold hearings in Tonopah and Ely. We have held hearings in Winnemucca, Elko, Reno, and Las Vegas. The purpose of these hearings is to get as complete a record as possible from the livestock men and ranchers in the State of Nevada on matters relating to the national forests and the public domain and matters relating to graz ing on these areas. I will place in the record a resolution that was adopted last night by the Nevada stockmen of this section, signed by Mr. A. B. Gardner, chairman, and James F. Robison, secretary. (The resolution presented and adopted is here printed in full, as follows:) Public domain Resolved, That we approve Government control of the public domain. 1. That any principles underlying a grazing use of the pubilc domain must recognize : (a) The necessity for definiteness of control in the operator. (b) A charge basis which does not depreciate investment values in privately owned properties dependent upon the use of such ranges. (c) That priority and use shall be the general basis of the granting of right to occupy such ranges. 2. That preceding any application of any law to this problem. the public domain should be classified as to its proper use with reference to the best economic development and benefit to the general public. 3. Any law enacted covering this matter should be based upon the principle of local option in States or grazing districts. 4. All fees collected in excess of the actual costs of maintenance and supervision of the public domain in each district to be applied to the improvement of the public domain in the district in which those fees are collected. A. B. GARDNER, Chairman. These hearings will be informal. The purpose is to secure all the information possible on these problems, which have important bearing on the welfare of the State of Nevada. Mr. James Riordan, of White River, will you come forward? He, apparently, is not here. Mr. John Whipple, will you please come forward? STATEMENT OF JOHN L. WHIPPLE, CATTLE RAISER, SUNNYSIDE, NEV. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Mr. Whipple, will you give your name and address to the reporter? Mr. WHIPPLE. John L. Whipple, Sunnyside, Nye County, Nevada. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What business are you engaged in? Mr. WHIPPLE. Cattle business and ranching mostly. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you use the public domain for grazing? Mr. WHIPPLE. I do. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. And the national forest reserve? The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have you a statement you would like to make to the committee? We would like to hear it in your own way. Mr. WHIPPLE. I have always been in favor of a control of the public domain. If we could get some sort of regulation or control of the outside public ranges, it would be very much better for our ranch industry, for the ranch without the range does not amount to very much. We should be protected by being given control over a certain amount of the public range we have been using for many years. With the range in the way it is at the present time, we are going from bad to worse from year to year, and it is only a matter of another few years when we won't have any outside range at all. In years gone by, a person could see hundreds of head of cattle on the range, and if you were to make the trip now in a car, for 75 or 100 miles, you wouldn't see over a hundred head of cattle on the range. The range is getting in such a shape that without some protection, we won't be able to run any cattle on the outside. Sheep are a little different. They can drift in and then go on some place else. If we could get some protection we could build up this range, which would be a great help to the stockmen in this section of the State. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. You are in favor then, of some sort of control of the open unappropriated public domain? Mr. WHIPPLE. I am. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are you familiar with the bill that has been proposed to Congress for the leasing of the public domain? Mr. WHIPPLE. Pretty well. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Would you favor a local-option clause in this bill, giving each physical subdivision of the State the option as to whether or not this law would apply to that particular subdivision or not? A particular subdivision of the State might be a county or several counties. Would you favor giving that subdivision a right to determine whether or not that law should apply to it? Mr. WHIPPLE. I would favor such a local option. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In case such a law should be passed, would you favor an area allotment or per capita allotment? Mr. WHIPPLE. At all times an area allotment wouldn't work in some places, but in most places, I think an area allotment would be the best. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Would that be true in your district? The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are there any controversies between the stockmen in your section as to the right to use certain portions of the range? Mr. WHIPPLE. Not between the citizens of this county. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. You believe the old established ranchers can satisfactorily handle those matters among themselves? Mr. WHIPPLE. I do. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe in local control of those matters? Mr. WHIPPLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What is the condition in your section regarding transient livestock? Mr. WHIPPLE. We are bothered quite a lot from stock coming in from other States and crowding us out. In other words, they are overstocking the range. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Is this a recent condition or has it been existing for some time? Mr. WHIPPLE. Existing for some time several years. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Has this condition come since certain sections of the public domain have been grazed by the owners of ranch properties dependent on these portions of the public domain and adjoining it? Mr. WHIPPLE. It has, and mostly in the last 10 years. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Prior to this new condition that you refer to, this range area was used by ranch holders in that part of the country? Mr. WHIPPLE. It was. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Has this new condition of transient grazing affected the value of the grazing of the old established ranchers? Mr. WHIPPLE. It surely has. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Has that resulted in depreciating the values of the dependent properties of the ranchers? Mr. WHIPPLE. It has. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Has that had a result on the tax rolls of this county? Mr. WHIPPLE. I should say it has. It has decreased the production of livestock in the county, because it has seriously injured the range for the local livestock. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe there is an intimate relation between the livestock industry and the small farmers who raise hay and grain? Mr. WHIPPLE. Yes, there is. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In other words, the small farmers are dependent, to a large extent, on the livestock industry for a market for their products? Mr. WHIPPLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe that anything that would adversely affect the livestock industry would affect the small farmer as well? Mr. WHIPPLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Would that affect the other businesses and industries in the county? Mr. WHIPPLE. It would. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe that with Government supervision of the public domain that this condition of transient livestock could be satisfactorily adjusted? Mr. WHIPPLE. I think it could with Government control. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Has the range in your section been damager by overgrazing? Mr. WHIPPLE. It has. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe, then, that proper supervision would have a tendency to improve the condition or availability of your range? Mr. WHIPPLE. There is no question in my mind that it would. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What is the financial condition of the livestock industry in your section of the country? Mr. WHIPPLE. It is in poor shape. It is pretty nearly wiped out: that is, the cattle part of it. The sheep industry is in better condition than the cattle industry. |