The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you think it is an unfair and unjust burden for the people of the county to have to police the whole county when the conditions are such as they are in your county in this particular? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. When only one acre out of 200 is on the assessment roll, I do. Representative ARENTZ. The cattle are in the vicinity the year around and the sheep for the large portion of the year upon a range you have protected. You have placed your water lines and your stock upon it and you are dependent on it for a living; they come in for a few months in the winter and then leave with devastation in their wake. Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. Last winter I went through the winter expecting to feed cotton tailings to them and started to feed the cattle in October and did pretty well for a while. The first snow came in December and it turned off cold and the sheep came and scattered them all and I didn't find half of them. The wind and the sheep drove my cattle out of the county. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Before these alien transient sheep came into the State, how did you arrange for the divisions of this range land among the several stockmen in your community? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. The cattlemen didn't have any division. Each one of us held a little bit of the range but we cooperated together. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Was there any trouble between the cattlemen? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. NO. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. They got along harmoniously? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. There was a little bit of trouble perhaps, but in the main, we got along harmoniously. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Then, if legislation is passed giving control of the range to the local stockmen, do you think they will get along together and arrange its division harmoniously and equitably? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. I do. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The peculiar conditions of Lincoln County have never made it necessary to separate the cattle from the sheep areas in the past. Until these transient sheep came the local sheepmen never had any trouble. If legislation should be passed legalizing the right to graze, do you believe that the local sheep and cattle men would get along harmoniously? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. I do. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The trouble only came from the transient sheep? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. Along with a few herds of Nevada sheep owned by Nevada people that are known as "tramp" sheep because they have no set place to stay at but just wander around. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The owners have no property? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. Not that I know of, and if they have they don't live on it. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe that the people who use the range should have dependent ranch property? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In case this legislation is passed, do you believe that the range should only be allotted to those who own ranch property? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Why? Mr. OLLINGHOUSE. It wouldn't be much good to cattlemen unless they had a home ranch. Of course, with sheep it is different. They can travel and graze all over, but cattle have to have a home ranch. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have you any further statement? If not, I thank for your statement. you Mr. HOLLINGER. If you are willing, we will hear from Mr. Lytle next. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. We will be glad to receive your statement. Will you give your name to the reporter? STATEMENT OF LEWIS LYTLE, CATTLEMAN, LAS VEGAS, NEV. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What is your business? Mr. LYTLE. Cattle. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. How long have you been engaged in that business? Mr. LYTLE. All my life time. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Then you are thoroughly familiar with it? Mr. LYTLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you use the public domain for your grazing? Mr. LYTLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Is there any forest in your section? The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Will you make your statement in your own way? Mr. LYTLE. In the last five years we have lost some cattle by having the sheep coming in. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. By death of the cattle? Mr. LYTLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What has been the effect on the balance of the cattle? Mr. LYTLE. They have become very poor. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have they depreciated in condition? Mr. LYTLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Where are these sheep from? Mr. LYTLE. From Utah. Transient sheep. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Will you continue your statement? Mr. LYTLE. If something could be done to keep the transient sheep out, that same thing should be done. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are you in favor of Federal legislation providing for local control. among the users of the range and the legalizing of the grazing rights? Mr. LYTLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What effect have the transient sheep had on the range? Mr. LYTLE. It has depreciated in value. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. How long has that range been used by the owner of your ranch? Mr. LYTLE. My father used to use it. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Since when? Mr. LYTLE. Since 1870. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Nearly 60 years; and have you considered that range in the light of a vested right that has gone with the ranch? Mr. LYTLE. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Would the ranch have any value without the use of the range? Mr. LYTLE. It would have some value, but not very much. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. It would depreciate the value to a large extent? Mr. LYTLE. Surely. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In case legislation should be passed providing for the legalizing of the use of the range and local control, would you favor a per capita basis or an area basis? Mr. LYTLE. Area basis. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. If the matter were in local control, what would be the result on the range? Mr. LYTLE. It would help it. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you think that the local stockmen would see to it that the range was not overgrazed? Mr. LYTLE. It would be to their interests. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Is your section of the State a cattle or sheep country? Mr. LYTLE. It is cattle country. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Would it be a profitable business for the raising of sheep? Is there a summer range for sheep? Mr. LYTLE. There is no summer range. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Then it is not possible to raise sheep without a summer range? Mr. LYTLE. Not so good. They should have a summer range. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. That is all, Mr. Lytle. Thank you. Mr. HOLLINGER. The next speaker is Mr. Richards. The ACTING CHAIRMAN.. Mr. Richards, will you give your name to the reporter? STATEMENT OF A. J. RICHARDS, CATTLEMAN, HICO, NEV. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What is your business? Mr. RICHARDS. I have a ranch and some stock. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What class of stock do you raise? The ACTING CHAIRMAN. How long have you been in that business? The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you hold an official position? Mr. RICHARDS. County commissioner. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. You are thoroughly familiar with the cattle business? Mr. RICHARDS. I am. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you use the public domain for grazing? Mr. RICHARDS. I would if I could. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have you ever used the public domain? Mr. RICHARDS. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have you always used that range? Mr. RICHARDS. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Since when? Mr. RICHARDS. About 40 years. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Does the grazing right have any effect upon the value of your ranch? Mr. RICHARDS. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. If the grazing right were injured or taken away, what effect would it have? Mr. RICHARDS. My ranch property wouldn't be worth so much. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. It would depreciate the value? Mr. RICHARDS. I should say it would. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you think you should have the use of the range? Mr. RICHARDS. It has been overstocked until it can't be used for a while. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Will you give your own statement. Mr. RICHARDS. Around where I live it is mostly the drought that bothers our cattle. The sheep do not get down where I live. They range more over Hico way. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What is the cause of the loss of your range? Mr. RICHARDS. It has been overstocked and drought has been on. One effect of the transient sheep has been that when they come into the northern part of the valley and they crowd the cattle south down onto us. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you raise hay and grain? Mr. RICHARDS. Some. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you understand that there is a close relationship between the livestock industry and the small farmer? Mr. RICHARDS. Yes, sir. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What is the effect on farms generally? Mr. RICHARDS. The farms couldn't exist without the livestock in the country. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe that there is a dependence between the two? Mr. RICHARDS. Every farmer has to have a few head of stock or he couldn't pay his taxes. If he wants some money, he must sell a COW. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe that there should be some Federal legislation to provide local control? Mr. RICHARDS. I do. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Would you favor an area allotment or a per capita allotment? Mr. RICHARDS. I would prefer an area allotment. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What would be the effect if the matter of local control of the range were left to the stockmen? Mr. RICHARDS. As soon as they got the sheep off the range it would become good again after a time. The life is almost out of it, but it would come out again. 43213-25-PT 15 -24 The ACTING CHAIRMAN. If the matter were left to the local stockmen would it improve the conditions on the range? Mr. RICHARDS. Yes. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. If you have any further statement we will be glad to hear it. Mr. RICHARDS. That is about all. The other gentlemen have spoken of about everything. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you think that if the range in this State could be regulated as suggested that it would increase the assessment roll of the county? Mr. RICHARDS. It would eventually, as soon as the range got grown out. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Would that have any effect on lightening the burden of the people in that section? Mr. RICHARDS. It should. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. That is all. Thank you. Mr. HOLLINGER. We have with this meeting a man who is entirely in sympathy with the cattlemen of Lincoln County. I met him a great many years ago, and then I saw him at the meeting in Reno. He is president of the State farm bureau. Allow me to introduce Mr. Yeager. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. We will be very glad to have a statement from you, Mr. Yeager. Will you give your name to the reporter? STATEMENT OF J. D. YEAGER, SIMPSON, NEV. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. We would like, Mr. Yeager, to have your statement in your own way. Mr. YEAGER. I am very much interested in the testimony given here to-day. I hadn't expected to be called upon to speak, but I am glad of the opportunity to say a few words to express my views. Before saying anything further, I would like to classify myself as a perfectly respectable sheepman. What I mean by that is that I am on a committee on national forest reserves. I graze sheep on the forest reserves in California. I do not have forage enough to carry my sheep through the winter and summer both on my farm. I make that statement largely so that what these men have said here about these local conditions which I have in mind will still be correct. I have a great deal to say about different conditions. The so-called stock water law was finally made to work very well, but it seems that it is inadequate. The stockmen are bothered by sheep and cattle which have grazed on the other side of that imaginary line. First, I want to say that I am a stockman from over on the other side of the line, and can appreciate and understand the conditions of these men in being trespassed upon by foreign sheep. Now, it appears that over on my side of the State nearly all the stockmen graze in California in the summer time. If these men were here, they would tell you about the forest reservations on which you may take your stock and let them graze. Just a few words in favor of control of the public domain. It seems to me that one point which hasn't been brought out, Senator Oddie, is this: No one here has stated, neither have you asked, |