The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In other words, if they can not sell their surplus grain and hay to the livestock raisers, the small farmers in your community will suffer?

Mr. STEWART. Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE ARENTZ. Have you any information relative to the weights of one year and two year old steers off the range of 10 years ago and to-day?

Mr. STEWART. No. Ten years ago we sold by the head. There were no cattle sold by weight. It is only recently that they have been selling by the pound.

Representative ARENTZ. What would be the relative weight?

Mr. STEWART. I think 25 per cent less to-day than five years ago. Of course, last year was bad for the livestock man. This year was bad but last year was the worst we ever had in our section.

Representative ARENTZ. What do you figure is the cause of the decrease in the calf crop?

Mr. STEWART. One is the drought and the other is the range being overstocked by the sheep coming in the winter and the cows and heifers not being in a condition to breed.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have these conditions resulted in a lower price per pound for the cattle?

Mr. STEWART. Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. That is all, Mr. Stewart. If you have any further statement

Mr. STEWART. I have none.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Mr. HOLLINGER. Mr. Adams, of Bunkerville, is here and I think he can tell us something more of the situation.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Mr. Adams, we will be pleased to hear you. Will you give your name and address to the reporter?

STATEMENT OF MAHLO H. ADAMS, CATTLEMAN, BUNKERVILLE, NEV.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are you engaged in the livestock business?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What branch?

Mr. ADAMS. In the cattle business.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. How many years have you been engaged in it.?

Mr. ADAMS. Ever since I was old enough.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Will you give your statement in your own way?

Mr. ADAMS. The northern stock, both eattle and sheep come in and use our range just the same as if it was theirs. They take our water and run our cattle off and let their sheep eat the feed. There are cattle and sheep from southern Utah. The sheep come in and pay no tax and our cattle are run off until we hardly have any left. Sheep come in the winter and spring when our feed is good and that just cleans it right up and we have no range for the summer. They kill our cattle off and pay very little tax for grazing in our State and county.

If we could get a little piece of ground that we could keep the sheep off altogether, we could go on and raise some more cattle

provided we can keep the sheep off next spring. As long as they come in and clean up all the feed we have, we can't do anything with the cattle. All we want is a little piece of ground.

Until six years ago when we had a nice spring they came down from southern Utah. These sheepmen came in, although the range belong to us. We paid a tax on our ranches and stock. When the sheep came they used our water holes just as if they belonged to them. Before that we were all right, but the northern cattle began to come in on us before that and they have been coming ever since. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Does the use of the range by outside cattle and sheep result in a depreciation of the value of your range property?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes. Both in farm and cattle, too.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What effect has that on the assessment roll and on taxes?

Mr. ADAMS. I don't know how it is with everybody. It has put taxes up, sometimes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have these outside sheep and cattle that have come in resulted in raising your taxes?

Mr. ADAMS. Of course, it has made everybody's taxes a little bit higher.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you favor Federal legislation which would give control of the range to the local stockmen? .

Mr. ADAMS. I certainly do.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. If the matter were left to the local stockmen what would be the result?

Mr. ADAMS. If it were left to the stockmen the range would come back again if there were any storms on it like there have been the last six months. If it were left to the home people it would come back again. The sheep have tramped it pretty well but it would come back.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. How many years had the range been used by the local stockmen before the sheep came in?

Mr. ADAMS. About 35 years.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Is that range necessary to the value of the ranch properties that have used it?

Mr. ADAMS. That is the only thing that gives it any value. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you believe that the range and ranchers go hand in hand?

Mr. ADAMS. If they didn't the range wouldn't have any cattle and without cattle there couldn't be any ranchers.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Why is that?

Mr. ADAMS. It is too far to the railroad to ship grain and hay and so the best way is to feed it to the cattle and make it walk out. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Will any injury to the range result in injury to the small farmer?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes. There would be no small farmer if it were not for the cattle.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are there any men in your community who raise hay and grain?

Mr. ADAMS. Hay and grain? Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are they dependent upon the livestock for a market for their hay and grain?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In other words, if there is any injury to the livestock industry it injures the men of the whole valley? Mr. ADAMS. Yes.

Representative ARENTZ. Pardon me, Mr. Adams. You realize that sheepmen and cattlemen both have rights? You merely want the sheepmen to keep out of your territory?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes.

Representative ARENTZ. If they want to come into some other parts it is all right. They could find hundreds of square miles in other directions. Could they go around you?

Mr. ADAMS. We don't ask much, only 35 miles, and they can go back of us and around us instead of going right over us.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you think that the same thing applies to all the foreign stock?

Mr. ADAMS. I do.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Is it a fact that there are certain ranges in this part of the State which can be used by sheep only? Mr. ADAMS. No. This is all cattle country.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are there certain regions that are not suitable for cattle?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. If these sections were used by the sheepmen would that be satisfactory to you?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Would you rather see legislation which would make it possible for Nevada sheepmen to use that section of the range than sheep from other States?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes. I don't believe that one State should be allowed to intrude upon another.

Representative ARENTZ. Do you know how far these sheep go

north?

Mr. ADAMS. Some go a couple of hundred miles.

Representative ARENTZ. Some range the length of the State, do they not?

Mr. ADAMS. I don't know just how far they run.

Representative ARENTZ. You know that they travel to a distance of two or three hundred miles?

Mr. ADAMS. Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further that you would like to say?

Mr. ADAMS. I can't think of anything just now.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I thank you for this statement.

Mr. HOLLINGER. Mr. Connaway is here and we'll have him speak

next.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Will you come forward, Mr. Connaway? Please give your name to the reporter.

STATEMENT OF J. H. CONNAWAY, CATTLEMAN, CALIENTE, NEV.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are you engaged in the livestock business?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In what branch?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Cattle and farming.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. How long have you been in that business?

Mr. CONNAWAY. My father started in the stock business in 1870. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. You are thoroughly familiar, then, with the stock business?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Yes; I understand it pretty well.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have you spent your life in it?
Mr. CONNAWAY. I have.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Will you give your statement in your own way?

Mr. CONNAWAY. The other gentlemen have explained the situation very well. We can not run måny more cattle because the range is not sufficient to keep them without feeding and taking a good deal of care of them. If we could let the cattle run out two or three months in the summertime, and in the wintertime if we have a snowstorm, we could run more cattle. But if we have no protection from the outside sheep, so we can not run so many. We have had a great deal of experience and they have done us lots of damage.

We have a mountain or hill right near home about 2 miles long and 3 miles wide. In the fall of the year we put our cattle on top of the mountain until the snow comes and sometimes we can keep them there all during the winter until the snow goes away. In the last few years the sheep started coming up onto that mountain and we had to move our cattle out. That ate out our summer range during the fall and winter and we had nothing left for the next year.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Where did these sheep come from?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Utah. We have been bothered with transient cattle specially in 1918.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN.

Where were these from?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Utah. There is a large valley called Mormon Valley in Nevada near the Utah line. In the fall of 1918 there was quite a lot of feed around these reservoirs and a lot of our cattle could be fed there, and they brought in 200 head.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. When did these cattle come in?

Mr. CONNAWAY. In 1919.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. And they took the use of that range?
Mr. CONNAWAY. Yes.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What has been the effect upon the value of the range property?

Mr. CONNAWAY. It has depreciated over half, and ever since 1919 it would have been better if it had not been for the transient sheep and cattle.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What has been the effect on the condition of the cattle?

Mr. CONNAWAY. We have lost about two-thirds of our cattle. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. And what has been the effect in the cattle you have saved?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Last year we could hardly sell our cattle. We had to sell for 4 cents a pound. If they had been in good shape we could have gotten 5 or 512 cents per pound.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Are you in favor of legislation that has been suggested which would give local control of the range to the local users?

Mr. CONNAWAY. I think that would be fine. If the owners of the cattle could control the range they would be willing to run more cattle.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. If they get local control of the range what effect would it have on the condition of the range?

Mr. CONNAWAY. It would help the range considerably. This year we have had lots of good storms and the range will be better and the grass will be good for feed.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Is it to the interest of the local stockmen to improve the range?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Yes; it is.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In case of legislation which would give control of the range to the local stockmen, would you favor a per capita allotment or an area allotment?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Area allotment. It would be the best. They could go where they pleased. If they had the per capita allotment it would be just the same as it is now.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Is there much hay and grain raised in your section?

Mr. CONNAWAY. Very little. We don't raise enough to feed our own cattle in a bad year.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In the years when the cattle industry has been prosperous have you been able to feed all your own cattle?

Mr. CONNAWAY. We have never fed any cattle until since 1918. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. If you had had the use of that range as you had in former years would you have had to buy that hay? Mr. CONNAWAY. We would not.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. In other words, the forage that your cattle needed and you had had the use of for years was taken away from you by transient sheep and you were obliged to buy hay and grain to take its place.

Mr. CONNAWAY. That is correct.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you think that it is a pretty hard deal?

Mr. CONNAWAY. I know it is.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Have you any further statement. Mr. Connaway?

Mr. CONNAWAY. No.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I thank you for your statement. Gentlemen, the hour of lunch has arrived. We will recess until 1.30 p. m. if that is satisfactory. At that hour this meeting will again convene in this court room.

(Thereupon, at 12.10 p. m., a recess was taken until 1.30 p. m. of the same day, Friday, October 16, 1925.)

AFTER RECESS

(The committee reconvened at 1.30 p. m. Friday, October 16, 1925. pursuant to the taking of recess.)

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The meeting will now come to order. Mr. Hollinger, who is the next witness?

Mr. HOLLINGER. Mr. Dixon.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Mr. Dixon, will you give your name and address to the reporter?