Mr. DAVIS (reading): Your committee on national forests desires to make the following recommendation and suggestions: 1. In order to promote and render more efficient the business of raising livestock to stabilize range production, and to assist agriculture by insuring the economic use of stock farms in the vicinity of the forest reserves, the Colorado Stock Growers Association considers it essential that permits for grazing on the national forests should be made permanent. 2. The Colorado Stockgrowers Association strenuously oppose the policy of the commercialization of the grazing resources of the national forest, and approves the bill introduced by Senator Phipps and passed by the United States Senate on January 30, 1925, with the additional recommendation that the moneys derived from grazing fees to be used in part by the department in making improvements necessary in the use of grazing on the national forests and the balance be returned to the States in which they are collected for the benefit of roads and schools. R. F. ROCKWELL, Delta County Stockgrowers Association, Chairman. Lake Fork Stockgrowers Association, Lake City. Gunnison County Stockgrowers Association, Gunnison. Powderhorn Stockgrowers Association, Powderhorn. Rio Blanco Stockgrowers Association, Meeker. Mr. Davis. And I certify that this is a true copy of the resolution as passed. The other resolution is a resolution adopting the report of the Committee on Public Domain, Gunnison, Colo., July 13, 14, and 15, 1925, as follows (reading): We favor a system of regulation of grazing livestock on the public domain that will provide for the following: 1. Assurance of the permanent use of the range by the established and property owning stockmen now running livestock thereon, with a preference given to the established stock ranch owners. 2. Statement in the law authorizing such regulation of the method of determining the amount of charges to be collected for grazing. 3. Classification of the lands of the public domain and granting of permanent grazing rights on lands not suitable for agriculture. 4. That the regulation of livestock grazing on all Government lands should be administered by a single department of the Government. 5. All revenue collected for grazing livestock in excess of reasonable amount expended for improvements used in connection with grazing should go to the State. J. W. Goss, Pueblo County Stockgrowers Association, Chairman. Kannah Creek Stockgrowers Association, Whitewater. FRANK FEHLING, Chaffee County Stockgrowers Association, Nathrop. FRANK C. MONROE, Southern Colorado Stockgrowers Association, Thatcher. FRANCIS HOLLAND, U. D. & E. Stockgrowers Association, Whitewater, Gunnison County Stockgrowers Association, Iola. Colorado Stockgrowers Association, Sapinero, Colo. Mr. DAVIS. And I certify that this is a true copy of the resolution. And I might add, if you please, that at this meeting we had representations and delegations from more than 36 local livestock associations, and our State association works for and represents about 128 local livestock associations. There are 36 of these local livestock associations that are paying annual dues into our association. The others have not been so situated financially that they could afford to pay dues, but assist in the support of the association by permitting a deduction from the gross receipts of their cattle shipments on the Denver market of 50 cents per car. Our association is supported in that way, and we consider every livestock shipper to the Denver market a member of our organization in good standing. And in addition to that we have some individual members, about 40. I have here a list which shows you the local livestock associations that were represented at that time and at the time these resolutions were adopted and the report of this committee was read there were about 125 livestock growers in the room, and they accepted this report from their committee by their unanimous indorsement. (The list presented by Mr. Davis is as follows:) Gilpin Jefferson County Stockgrowers Association, Blackhawk_ Fremont Park County Stockgrowers Association, Fairplay. Bent and Prowers Stockgrowers Association, Las Animas.... Fremont County Stockgrowers Association, Canon City-. 14 11 16 16 5 4 5 4 3 10 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 35 2 Local associations represented by proxy (proxies not used in voting): North Glenwood Stockgrowers Association, Glenwood Springs. Sheephorn Piney Stockgrowers Association, Sheephorn, Colo. Larimer County Stockgrowers Association, Livermore, Colo. Mancos Cattlegrowers Association, Mancos. Beulah Valley Stockgrowers Association, Beulah, Colo. Querno Verde Stockgrowers Association, Redwing, Colo. Senator JONES of New Mexico. I think we had better talk over the situation some. As I understand it these hearings are entirely informal, and we want to get at the solution of this problem if we can. Personally I feel very much interested in trying to get at some permanent solution of the problem. And I see that the associations have recommended in their resolutions which you have just read that these permits on the forest reserves be made permanent. That strikes me as being a very important suggestion. It would seem that that would ultimately dispose of the public domain problem. Would it not practically put the present stockmen in the same position as if they were the owners of the property? Mr. DAVIS. Well, it would have a tendency to stabilize his business and place him in a position of planning for the future. In other words, we feel that if our ranches in the mountains, if our water rights were in the same position that this grazing is in at the present time, we would not know how we would live from one year to another. We believe that the grazing rights of those who are entitled to them should be made permanent in a way so that he could stabilize his business and plan for the future. That has been one of the handicaps of those who graze in the national forest. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Well, to come back to the question, would not that practically put the present stock growers in the position of being owners of the property? Mr. DAVIS. Yes; owners to the extent of a permanent right to do a thing on payment of a fee; yes. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Would you have that system apply to the land outside of the forest reserve? Mr. DAVIS. Well, we in Colorado are just a little differently situated probably from other States; although we have about 7,700,000 acres of the so-called public domain I think my people are all of the opinion that the public domain proposition should be handled more in a local way. But if a new law was enacted to provide for that, why then it too should be stabilized to the extent of giving a man an opportunity to have it for a given time, or to permanentize it, as it were, in order to assist in stabilizing his business so that he could figure on the number of livestock he might profitably and permanently run on the public domain. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Have you thought about the question as to competition with people who own lands outside of the forest reserves and the public domain? Mr. DAVIS. That is from a permittee's standpoint? Senator JONES of New Mexico. Yes. Mr. DAVIS. Well, yes; we have thought about that. And again we think about those people who came in here and established those places. We believe in regard to grazing the national forest as we believe about our water rights; we believe that that should be made permanent, and we believe that there should be a preference right to those who were here in the beginning, even though those lands have changed hands it is still in that same location, and as the result of that permit to graze in the national forest it probably has carried some increased value, and as a result of that it carries that value for taxes, so I think when we pay our State and local taxes on that valuation we have established a right to graze in the national forest as a preference to such located ranches. Senator JONES of New Mexico. I see by a table before me that in the State of Colorado there are over 63,000,000 acres of land, and about seven and three-quarters million acres are public domain and thirteen and one-quarter million acres in the national forests. That leaves a much larger portion of the land in Colorado in private ownership, does it not? Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Well, what about the people who own those lands and pay taxes on them and have their money invested in them with respect to the people which you evidently represent, grazing on the national forests and upon the public domain, if the public domain should be put into the same position as the forest reserves? These people have their money invested in these lands and they pay taxes on those lands, and they are in competition with the stock grazers on the forest reserves and of the other public domain, and would you want to create a situation which would make permanent that advantage or disadvantage as between the owners of private lands and the users of the national forests? Mr. DAVIS. Well, of course, when we think of that we must always think of the State, and it is only the ranches that are in the neighborhood of the lands that are left as public domain that would have access to grazing. They now use those lands, and they use them without any charge. The other portions of these ranches that lie in the other sections of the State would not have access to it. They have no way to take advantage of it; even though it is free now, they can not reach it. It can only be used by those people who now own deeded land in that vicinity, and of course the number of years that they have been homesteading, beginning with the 160 acres and then the 320 acres and now up to a section of land, practically all of the land we think that anyone might have the nerve to believe that they could make a living on has practically been taken. So the land that is left now that we call the public domain is pretty cheap land, inferior land, and that which I have seen, and I have seen many acres of it, I think would take anywhere from 25 to 75 acres of it to graze an animal over the summer grazing period, which might be from in May until-if we had a good fall-maybe October. I Senator JONES of New Mexico. Well, now, suppose we direct our attention back to the public lands outside of the forest reserve. take it that you have just given a brief description of those lands. Now, are there privately owned lands interspersed among what is left of the public domain outside of the forest reserve? Mr. DAVIS. Yes; for this reason, that in an area of land that might be many miles square which would all be public domain one homesteader would come in and stay in the center of it; for some reason he might select that section of land, and so in these bodies of the public domain there are now little spots of land taken up as grazing homesteads. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Well, now, what disposition should be made of those public lands? Mr. DAVIS. Well, we believe that if they could all be classified as lands fit for no other purpose than grazing, then there are several ways that that might be handled. It might be handled as is grazing in the national forest. They might set aside an area of so many miles square and issue permits to so many men at a fee to graze on that area, and if they would extend a permit to them to graze for a number of years they would be in a position to go together and fence it, and as a result of that they could raise their cattle and make them better by better feed, better silos, and better care, and they would cut down losses, and that would be an advantage. In other words, it would get back to the way it was in Wyoming and in other States; there were great pastures in Wyoming, and the cattle were handled in that way, and we were producing at that time probably the best cattle that were raised in Wyoming on the open range. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Well, now, Mr. Davis, as I said in the beginning, we want to find some way to make permanent disposition of the public domain. Now, you would not want that sort of land to exist permanently, would you? Mr. DAVIS. Well, if that land was not fit for any other purpose than grazing, and grazing thereon is to be regulated, I don't know of any other plan we could get for, say, 10 years than that plan. Of course, there is one other way, where they could lease it to individuals by the acre over a period of time and permit them to fence it and use it as they liked upon a rental basis, but I see no other way. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Have you thought of any plan for giving those settlers an opportunity to own that land? Mr. DAVIS. Well, I know of no plan other than that of taking up of a homestead of 640 acres. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Well, we are considering now legislation on the subject. Mr. DAVIS. Sure. Senator JONES of New Mexico. We are not bound by the existing laws, and our purpose here is to determine whether or not new legislation is advisable. Now, there have been several suggestions made regarding such lands as that. Numerous bills have been introduced by different Members of Congress proposing to turn such lands over to the States in which they are situated. Other bills have been introduced proposing to enlarge the area which a homesteader might take up. Other bills have been introduced proposing that a homesteader might take up a homestead under the present section law with the right to purchase adjacent sections of land. Have you given consideration to any of those different proposals? Mr. DAVIS. I am familiar with the suggestions made in those different bills, and I can say that the Colorado Stock Growers' Association would not approve of turning this so-called public domain over to the State to be administered as our State lands are administered to-day. Senator JONES of New Mexico. How are your State lands administered to-day? Mr. DAVIS. Well, we have a land board, and they have a fixed charge per acre, and it runs from-well, they are leasing now at about 6 cents an acre. At one time the minimum was 8 cents an acre. And the land is classified and runs up to 12, 14, and as high as 50 cents an acre where it goes for agricultural purposes or where it can be properly farmed and is productive as farm lands. Senator JONES of New Mexico. Now, what are objections to that system? |