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That was 10 miles west of Red Buttes, on the same road practically that you came in yesterday:

To-day we traveled about 10 miles.

That is July 10.

The range is very poor, and it has become necessary to divide into small parties in order to procure forage for our cattle.

The purpose in these few quotations, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, is to call your attention to the fact that from the very first record we have of white men in this country there have always been periods and places where there was a great scarcity of grass.

Life of James Bridger, by J. Cecil Alter, Captain Raynolds' Expedition, 1860, July 18:

Lieut. John Mullins directed to make a topographical examination of the country south of the Missouri between Fort Benton and Fort Union. Dr. F. V. Hayden, naturalist; A. Schonbron, artist and meteorologist; W. D. Stuart, topographer; James Bridger, guide.

August 1. Forage was unusually scarce, and the animals were becoming much emaciated, two of them being left.

Gregg's "Commerce on the Prairies," Ashley's expedition, and, in fact, all travelers that recorded their observations tell of periods when there was a great scarcity of feed.

This condition of the range is just what we contend. Whenever the seasons are favorable, when we have sunshine and rain, there will be an abundance of grass; and the conditions that many times confront us to-day are no different to what they were before the coming of the white men, before any domestic animals had ever grazed on what is now called the public domain of the United States.

Many of these men were scientists, and their observations were recorded simply to give the country a knowledge of this western country at that time. Conditions are much the same to-day. In drought seasons there is little vegetation, and it is neither due to the presence or absence of sheep or cattle.

There has been a great deal said about protection to watersheds. I wish to call to the attention of this committee that the principal watershed-in fact, the watershed of the principal streams of this western country-has been protected by act of Congress since the year 1872. That is the Yellowstone National Park, which contains the source of the Missouri, the Yellowstone, the Green River, and the Snake River.

I wish to call your attention to the fact that there is more evidence of erosion on some of these streams than any other streams in the country that I can think of. From the very first records we have of the Missouri it has always been noted for erosion, especially lower on the stream. The Green River-that later becomes the Colorado River-if it had not been for the erosion along that stream we would have been deprived of one of the world's greatest scenic attractions. In fact, because of the scenic value of that canyon our Government has seen fit to create a national park known as the Grand Canyon National Park, to be perpetuated for the pleasure of the American people and the profit of the Santa Fe railroad.

In all of our parks we find some things that are objectionable to citizens of these States. We find that in the Grand Canyon National

Park you are held up by the Santa Fe railroad if you stop at El Tovar. If you go down into the canyon you are held up by a Santa Fe mule. It is a case of "holdup " from start to finish.

When it comes to the Yellowstone National Park-I have lived here all my life but never have been in it, and what I have to say about the Yellowstone National Park is purely hearsay. But I am told that under the laws of Wyoming when it issues us a license for an automobile that that license is supposed to be good for anywhere in the State of Wyoming, but we find on arriving at the line of the Yellowstone National Park that we are held up again for a license fee of $7.50 for the privilege of traveling over 330 miles of Government road in the State of Wyoming. And I have been further told that this “holdup " habit has become so common and so prevalent that even the bears in the Yellowstone Park have acquired it.

According to the latest estimates for Wyoming the number of pounds of wool is 22,000,000. The revenue, approximately, from those 22,000,000 pounds is $18,000,000. The revenue from the cattle is approximately $12,000,000, making a total of $30,000,000.

Natrona County has approximately 300,000 sheep. I wish to call the attention of the committee to one fact, that Natrona County sheep are divided up among more owners than any county of the United States, with the exception of some of the community flocks in the State of Utah. The greater number of flocks in Natrona County belong to what we call one-herd men.

Natrona County shipped out last year 110,000 head of lambs. That 110,000 head, I may say, went to Scotts Bluff, Nebr., and to Fort Collins, Colo.

The total number shipped out, including the old ewes and lambs to Omaha, makes a total of 192,000 head.

The revenue from these sales brought to the city of Casper about $3,000,000 in 1924.

I wish to repeat and reiterate what Mr. Wilson said here this morning, that the livestock industry is in my opinion the most important industry in the State of Wyoming. It supports more communities, it supports more people, and I think that any industry that is so vital and so necessary to the welfare and prosperity of some 200,000 people in the State of Wyoming should be paramount to any desire of the Forest Service bureau or any other bureau.

There has been a great deal of talk lately in regard to the proposed extension of the Yellowstone National Park. You note that they say: "In order to conform to the topographical boundaries, natural contours"-something of that kind I believe they use"it will be necessary to make an extension down farther into the State of Wyoming and into the Teton country, shaped something like this; I believe it is known in the parlance of football as a flying wedge'," and, in my opinion, that is exactly what that is intending as a flying wedge. If they are successful in having that extension created it will only be a few years until they tell us that in order to police that area more efficiently it will be necessary to conform the boundaries along the straight lines as they had them. before. That will be in anargument for an enlargement out to make the lines square, to conform to something the shape of it as it now exists. Then, if that is permitted they will come back with another flying wedge.

This is something that the citizens of Wyoming, and particularly the livestock men who have given these questions perhaps more consideration than the average citizen, should give careful attention to, because it has a tendency, it is aimed at, and it will affect their business in a very short time. There is this danger of establishing a precedent. When the precedent is once established, further extension granted, many other communities in this State are going to ask for the creation of national parks, because they believe that a national park will induce tourists to come through that part of the country.

There is another consideration I wish to call to your attention. From the year 1887 until the year 1907 or 1908 there was almost continuous prospecting for oil in the Salt Creek oil field. It took more than 20 years-25 years-to discover oil in commercial quantities. There was some oil found, but there was never any oil found in commercial quantities until 1907 or 1908-I would not be sure of the date.

In the summer of 1893, in company with two other men, I prospected that summer in the Big Horn canyons and from Cloud Peak, in all that territory north we found traces of gold in almost every gulch that we worked in. True it was a rather fine gold and it was difficult to save, but gold is there. The summer before-1892, as Senator Kendrick will doubtless remember-there was a good deal of mining excitement in what was known as Bald Mountain. They moved in that summer-and that was before the railroad was built into Sheridan-they moved into Sheridan, and from Sheridan to Bald Mountain, machinery that had been designed to save this very fine flour gold; I believe it was known at that time as the cyanide process of saving gold. I wish to call your attention to the fact that with the exception of Alaska prospecting and mining in national parks is strictly forbidden. In granting any further extensions of the national park that is a thought that we want to well consider. We may be giving away undreamed of wealth. We do not know what there may be there. We do not know what time may develop. We know that in the Cripple Creek district, for instance, prospectors had gone over that for many years; prospectors and even geologists had said that gold never was found in the formations that were exposed at Cripple Creek. But prospectors pay very little attention to what geologists tell them. Their theory is that gold is where it is found. Mr. Stratton, as you know, came along and he found gold in a formation that before had never been believed to contain gold. That has been one of the very richest mining districts in the State of Colorado. And these same possibilities, I maintain, are in the Big Horns. They may be in these mountains directly south of the park. And for that reason, if no other, we should absolutely and positively as citizens of this State contest and oppose every attempt, every encroachment of the National Park Service and of the Government to extend the boundaries of the Yellowstone National Park.

The largest area in national parks outside of the State of Wyoming, I believe, is in our sister State, Montana. If my memory is right, that is about some 902,000 acres. We already have in national parks 1,994,322 acres. And I believe the bulk of that is contained in the Yellowstone National Park. A great deal has been said about the scenic beauty and attractions of this particular region that is

to be embraced in this proposed extension. It is already in a forest reserve, and I maintain that changing its name is not going to enhance the beauty of Jackson Lake, nor will it increase the grandeur of the Grand Tetons. They will still be the same. The Forest Service has built good roads into these places with money that they have extorted from the livestock interests of Wyoming. And I believe it would be very unfair to extend the boundaries of the Yellowstone National Park as proposed by this extension.

Senator KENDRICK. Is it your idea, Mr. Cooper, that this entering wedge that you speak of is just the initial step in a well-matured plan to make a total eclipse of Teton County?

Mr. COOPER. Senator Kendrick, my thought on that is from what I read and from the different leagues like the Izaak Walton League and others organized outside of the boundaries of the State of Wyoming, who are not citizens of the State of Wyoming, who are not taxpayers of the State of Wyoming my contention is that it is their plan to convert the State of Wyoming into one vast playground for the benefit of the people of the United States and to the detriment of the people now living in Wyoming.

When the Yellowstone National Park was created the elk at that time were not confined particularly to that locality. As a boy at Rock Springs I can recall when the first snows brought the elk down out of the mountains. And they came down in droves, very much as our sheep come down out of the mountains to-day. The instincts of the game animals and the domestic animals are very much alike when they are left to follow their instincts. 'They would come down to what we call the Salt Sage flats; they came down to winter there. As the snows receded in the spring they followed the snows back to the mountains.

The elk were killed off to a considerable extent at a very early date. The Yellowstone Park affording the refuge that it did, the elk herd increased, multiplied to such an extent that the Yellowstone Park in a very short time did not afford range enough for the elk there. They moved farther south. The elk herds are increasing so fast, and there are only a few being killed off, it is only a question of time until further range is going to be necessary for the everincreasing herd of elk. And it is a question in my mind whether the elk herd is of more importance to the State of Wyoming than are, as Mr. Imeson stated, the homes and babies and the children to educate. Whenever such a contingency confronts us again as did in 1917, this immense herd of elk is not going to be drafted to furnish the men to fight our country's battles. That is one of the things we want to take into consideration.

I contend that Wyoming should be for Wyoming people. I have no objections to the elk in reasonable numbers, but I do object to the elk being given preference over the pioneers of this State.

We have another similar situation. It was brought very forcibly to our attention last winter. This is the deer herd on the Kaibab National Forest in northern Arizona. They have increased to such an extent that the range they were on was no longer sufficient to susta in them. Last winter they proposed to round them up much the same as we round up cattle, take them down and put them across the Colorado River at a good ford and get them over to the south side where there would be forage. This did not prove practical.

They were not able to do it. And I am told, and I just get this from the daily press, that there were hundreds, if not thousands of those deer that perished from lack of feed. That, in my opinion, is an evidence of overgrazing under Forest Service regulation and supervision.

That is all I have to say.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any questions, Mr. Winter?
Mr. WINTER. No.

Representative WINTER. Any further questions, Senator?
Senator KENDRICK. NO.

The CHAIRMAN. That will be all, Mr. Cooper. Mr. Erwin.

STATEMENT OF B. J. ERWIN, DOUGLAS, WYO., FORMER REGISTER OF THE UNITED STATES LAND OFFICE AT DOUGLAS

The CHAIRMAN. Will you give your name and address to the reporter?

Mr. ERWIN. B. J. Erwin, Douglas, Wyo.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Erwin, in what business are you engaged? Mr. ERWIN. Up until May the 1st I was Register of the United States land office at Douglas, Wyo.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a statement you would like to make to this committee?

Mr. ERWIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you do so in your own way?

Mr. ERWIN. It seems, gentlemen of the committee, and Congressman Winter, that there has been an immense amount of criticism of the Forest Service and I virtually am here with a brief for the entrymen, of which there are something like 16,000 in the State of Wyoming at the present time, who have homesteaded these lands.

To begin with I wish to state that under the best information and from my own experience in both the cattle and the sheep business, the average section of land will support 75 head of sheep and 15 head of cattle. So that with a section of land, a so-called stockraising homestead, there is not enough of it for an entryman to properly provide for his family and his children and do those things for them that every American citizen feels that his family is entitled to.

The four years of service as the register of the Douglas land office, coming in personal contact with something like 7,000 entrymen, and for a matter of three years spending most of my Sundays in driving in Niobrara County and Converse County and coming in contact with these people in their homes, to see what they were doing and how they were doing and whether it was possible for them to succeed under the existing conditions 'gave me some very definite conclusions.

I wish to state to begin with that I thoroughly believe in the homestead law. I do not believe that this State under existing conditions can carry the burden of these public lands unless these lands can be brought to patent. And the only suggestions that I have are conclusions that I have reached because of this experience, that may be helpful.

As we all know, the present requirements of the stockraising homestead law require seven months' residence out of each year for

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