within your present allotment boundary is not being utilized but very little, while other sections of your range shows excessive grazing. Of course, these are neither the conditions which your association nor the Forest Service desire, and I think it will be necessary for us to arrive jointly at some satisfactory course of action. In order to do this I think we should all be familiar with the situation and possibly to work it out together with a common understanding in mind. I would therefore like very much to meet a committee from your association at the Sherman R. S. on Horse Creek the evening of September 19 for the purpose of riding the range from Lead Creek throughout the Sherman unit and over the Big Piney division as far south as South Piney Creek. I am satisfied that such a joint inspection of the range will be the only way in which we can satisfactorily determine what course of action to take in our future management of the grazing situation on these two divisions, and I sincerely hope that you may be able to have a representative committee appointed for the purpose of making this ride. I suppose that it will take as much as four or five days to satisfactorily make this trip. Of course, each one making the trip should be provided with pack outfit so that food supplies and bed can be taken with each member, since we will no doubt desire to camp out at least part of the nights we will be in the field. I am sending you an extra copy of this letter in order that you may send it to the president of the association when you take up with him the matter of appointing the committee. Very truly yours, C. E. FAVRE, Forest Supervisor. In the above correspondence requests were made by the forest officers for a joint examination of the range, but in no case did any of the stockmen appear in order to make the ride over the range to determine conditions. Upon receipt of the supervisor's invitation to make a trip over the forest, which invitation was furnished them some three weeks in advance of the proposed date, the president of the association attempted to secure a committee to go with the forest officers but he could find no one who wished to make the ride, and, putting it in his own words, Since he could not find any of the stockmen to go with him on the trip he did not believe that he could do it himself." In respect to James Jensen's statement that the association was given no voice in the determination of seasons for grazing, we would advise that the present established season on the Big Piney allotment is at the specific request of the Big Piney Association, and no doubt can be found in the minutes of the meeting for 1922, since the following quotation from a letter written March 29, 1922, was received from Ranger Graham, then in charge: "The subject of the opening of the grazing was discussed at the meeting and it was voted that the grazing season opening June 15 rather than June 1 would be better for the stockmen. In my opinion the 15th of June would be a better date for the opening of the season as there has been very few years in the 14 years since I have been on this district that the range has been far enough advanced by the 1st of June for the cattle to enter." (June 15 is now the opening date.) In respect to a statement made by Mr. Jenkins that the Forest Service changed its policy with the change in personnel, each new officer believing that it was necessary for him to upset precedent and make changes, we must advise that the forests are governed by regulation and by broad policies which are not changed without due consideration and without allowing considerable time to adjust conditions to the new situation. It is true that some officers will naturally enforce the regulations and policies to a greater extent than will others, and to this extent Mr. Jenkins's statement is no doubt correct. However, the basic principles and policies remain the same unless changed on account of the advance of time, in which case it is desirable that policies change with conditions of the country. to the effect that he had discussed matters of which he complained on various occasions with the supervisor, we must state that at no time did Mr. Beck take up any of these matters with the supervisor. In further regard to his statement that weights of steers have been reduced from 1,200 pounds to 900 pounds largely through the management of forest ranges we must say that if the weights of stock had been reduced to this extent there can be very little bearing in the case on account of management of forest ranges. It was not many years back that these cattlemen did not use the forest range at all, but their cattle grazed on the many meadows in the foothills which are now fenced. As late as about 1914 Mr. Barnes, of the Washington office, made a trip to the upper Green River country and on the Big Piney unit, and he urged the stockmen then to begin the use of the national forest, so that they could establish a preference for the grazing of stock before the outside range was all taken up and utilized and before other parties less entitled to the grazing on the national forest secured an established preference through prior use. I am inclined to believe that the reason for the reduction in weights of steers, if such reduction has come about, is due to the fact that in those days the stock could graze upon meadows, and that therefore they secured an abundance of forage without any material travel on the part of the stock. These lands now being fenced, the stock are naturally forced to the higher hills, and they must necessarily travel more or less to secure the same amount of forage, and consequently, as is well known, stock that must travel considerably do not fatten as well as stock which may readily obtain sufficient forage and lie down to rest. In respect to his complaint that the stock should be allowed to go on the forest earlier in order that they may become accustomed to the range and remain there the balance of the summer, we have only to say that the present season has been established at the specific request of the association, copy of the request being furnished above. In answer to Mr. O'Neil's charge of inexperienced forest officers, we have only to refer to our statement mentioned above as to actual experience. In further reference to Mr. O'Neil's statement that if we fenced the forest range on the Big Piney unit we would not have range for the numbers permitted and charged for, and that, therefore, the Government is now obtaining more revenue from this unit than is justified, we have only to say that there are some 49,684 acres of land within the Big Piney unit upon which the records show we have permitted 3,405 cattle. This, it will be seen, is at the rate of 14.5 acres per cow, which for a four-month season now in effect is deemed sufficient. It should also be said that a detailed study of this range was made by Range Examiner Wall and he found that upon this area there are some 11,416 forage acres, or 3.3 forage acres per cow for the four-month period. Figuring the same thing by comparison with the Sherman unit, which has the forest boundary fenced, it will be seen that on this unit, which is immediately north of the Big Piney unit and is similar to it, there are some 31,107 acres upon which are permitted 2,196 cattle. Thus it will be seen that these cattle, more or less under fence, have 14.1 acres per cow as compared to 14.5 acres per cow on the Big Piney unit. Further, following a detailed mapping and estimate of the Sherman unit by Grazing Inspector Shoemaker, it was found that there was some 6,474 forage acres on this unit. or some 8 forage acres per cow as compared to 3.3 forage acres per cow on the Big Piney unit. It should be said further that there is forage left in the fall on the higher ranges of the Sherman allotment, but that the low range on this allotment is too heavily grazed. However, by comparison it will be seen that the Big Piney unit has more range than the Sherman unit, which is more or less under fence and which makes a comparable situation to that which Mr. O'Neil mentions, namely, that "if we were to fence our Big Piney range it would not support the stock now allotted to it." Further, under the present methods of management as conducted by the Big Piney unit, and which is evidenced in the foregoing correspondence with the association, it is clear that there are some units being overgrazed on the Big Piney division while there are other units which are considerably undergrazed, and until there is even utilization of the forage on the range it is going to be difficult to determine the exact carrying capacity. It will also be noted in the above statement that the actual grazing of forage on the Sherman unit checks out very closely with both the carrying capacity figures determined by grazing reconnaissance on the Big Piney unit and the Sherman unit as well as by the actual number using the range and the condition of forage remaining in the fall. In regard to the supervisor's answer to Mr. Bowden's question as to whether the strip of range on the forest has the same carrying capacity as the strip outside the forest in which he stated that he believed the carrying capacity to be the same on both units, it should be stated that a detailed map and estimate of this strip of range was made in 1924 by Range Examiner Wall, and his figures show that there are 32,970 acres of useable land on the strip outside as compared to 49,684 acres on the forest. There are, however, slightly more forage acres on the outside strip than inside, there being 12,329 forage acres outside as compared to 11,416 forage acres inside. Mr. James Jensen made the statement before the committee that salt put on the range was done in an impracticable way. In his own words, that "the salt was placed where the cattle would not and could not get it." It will be seen from the above correspondence with the Big Piney Association, and particularly from the ranger's letter of August 26 quoted above to the president of the association, page 11, paragraph 3, that the salt was not put in impossible places. In fact, the salt was placed beside streams, and further, that the ranger was not advised when salt was to be placed on the range by the association riders. It is true that there are other associations who place their salt exactly in accordance with plans worked out between themselves and the district rangers, and it was noticeable at the hearings that none of these associations were present to voice complaints concerning the management of the stock on the range. It must be stated that inspection of the Big Piney range unit shows that salt was placed almost invariably very near to the water and in no way out on the ridges so as to draw the cattle from the overgrazed areas along creeks to the better forage on the slopes. I think there would be no serious objection if the salt in these cases had been placed at a reasonable distance from water, even though the salt had not been placed on tops of the ridges. We must further advise that out of the 12 cattle associations on this forest Big Piney seems to have the greatest difficulty in securing satisfactory results. In further reference to Mr. Jensen's statement that his permit was changed from the Big Piney unit to upper Green River unit, we must say that he requested the change himself, and, as he put it, "He had a ranch at Daniel, where he could handle the stock on upper Green River range as easily as he could handle them where they were, and that he would therefore apply to go to the upper Green River unit." We agreed, and consequently 2,200 head of his stock were placed on the upper Green River unit, the other thousand being grazed on their former ranges in the vicinity of Big Piney. It was only last fall that he gave the supervisor the distinct impression that his upper Green River range was entirely satisfactory; that the stock came out in good condition, and he was glad of the change. In Mr. Taliaferro's statement before the committee he explains that in his opinion trails were unnecessary, and he cites as an example the Rock Springs winter range. In connection with this statement we must say that there is much difference in the handling of a winter range where snow conditions make it impossible to use the allotment system in apportioning the range. The individuals having allotments on the forest which would be nearest the southern end of this forest could not properly conserve the forage on their ranges if everyone having an allotment further to the north were permitted to drive their sheep promiscuously across these allotments. This would also be particularly true where sheep herds would be promiscuously driven across cattle ranges in order to reach the sheep range, which is a greater distance beyond. It would also militate against the possibility of securing a reseeding of the better range plants on the allotments which would be traversed by the migrating flocks. Naturally the sheep traversing these allotments would pick out of the forage the best vegetation, and this picking out of the best vegetation would not allow reseeding of the better class of plants. Customarily a stockman who desires to build up his range will allow a certain section of his allotment to go to seed, and this will only be lightly grazed after the seed has matured. Therefore, if other herds were allowed to trail through these units of range which have been allowed to go to seed in order to build up the range there would be no inducement for the holder of the allotment to follow out this system, since either in the spring or fall these herds trailing from a distance farther north would consume the better plants on these units, if not all of the forage. It should be said that there are some 12 cattle associations on this forest with which the Forest Service have been cooperating for a number of years. The success of this cooperation has been of varying degrees. However, at no time has there been anything more welcome in the management of both sheep and cattle ranges than the advice and suggestions of an association. We must fur ther advise that out of these 12 cattle associations only 1, the Big Piney, presented a statement to the committee in opposition to the policies of the Forest Service, and it should be said that the management of stock on this range (Big Piney) is perhaps the poorest of any association range. It is further believed that the foregoing documentary proof as to the attempt at cooperation between governmental and private interest on this range unit is significant. Similarly, the foregoing documentary evidence as to the complaint registered by Mr. Noblitt for the Lincoln County Wool Growers concerning trail conditions on this forest is indicative of the cooperation existing between sheep interests and the Forest Service. Respectfully submitted this 5th day of October, 1925. C. E. FAVRE, Forest Supervisor. NATIONAL FORESTS AND THE PUBLIC DOMAIN FRIDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1925 UNITED STATES SENATE, The subcommittee met at 9.30 o'clock a. m. on Friday, October, 2, 1925, at Casper, Wyo., in the city courthouse, pursuant to adjournment on September 30, 1925, Senator Robert N. Stanfield (chairman), presiding. There was also present Congressman Charles E. Winter, Representative at Large from Wyoming. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. I take pleasure in asking Congressman Winter to sit with the committee. Gentlemen, this is a meeting of a subcommittee of the Committee on Public Lands and Surveys of the United States Senate. This committee is holding hearings under Senate Resolution 347, as follows: Resolved, That the Committee on Public Lands and Surveys, or any duly authorized subcommittee thereof, is authorized to investigate all matters relating to national forests and to the public domain and their administration, including grazing lands, forest reserves, and other reservations and lands withdrawn from entry. For the purpose of this resolution such committee or subcommittee is authorized to hold hearings and to sit and act at such places and times; to employ such experts and clerical, stenographic, and other assistants; to require by subpoena or otherwise the attendance of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents; to administer such oaths and to take such testimony and make such expenditures as it deems advisable. You will note by the resolution that we are not confined to any particular phase or question pertaining to the public lands, reserved or unreserved, so we will attempt to hear any and all that are here to-day on any question pertaining to the public lands, reserved or unreserved. I have a list of witnesses which has been provided. I will call Mr. J. B. Wilson. STATEMENT OF J. B. WILSON, SECRETARY OF THE WYOMING WOOL GROWERS' ASSOCIATION, MCKINLEY, WYO. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wilson, will you give your name and address to the reporter? Mr. WILSON. J. B. Wilson, McKinley, Wyo. Secretary of the Wyoming Wool Growers' Association. |