Commissioner GARRETSON. Is there a church in existence that has ever taught anything else but that a man must accept its basic tenets or beliefs or suffer eternal condemnation? Mr. WEITZEL. I think there is not a church but what teaches that. Commissioner GARRETSON. Then the union and the church put up the same thing. Mr. WEITZEL. I say this: The church does not compel you to contribute. If you contribute-you can contribute, become a member of the church voluntarily. There is none of us that will deny that our present civilization, the many good things we enjoy, are due to Christianity, due to the teachings of Jesus Christ, the doctrines taught by Jesus Christ and His followers. The preaching of His Gospel is the thing that has done the most for this world, but yet it is just as sensible for the Christian people to say "You must join the church and contribute," and for that reason, as it is for the union man to say "You must join our union." I am sure you would not say it was right to be asked and compelled to join the church and contribute to it, if you didn't want to. Commissioner GARRETSON. Do you know anything Mr. WEITZEL. Know anything? Commissioner GARRETSON. About one thing I will admit there are several things you know-do you know anything about the severance of the pastoral relations? Mr. WEITZEL. Yes. Commissioner GARRETSON. Between Ferris, of the Episcopal Church in Trinidad, on account of his activities in going to Ludlow after the trouble there? Mr. WEITZEL. I never heard of Mr. Ferris before, Mr. Garretson. Commissioner GARRETSON. Do you know of any trouble in the Congregational Church there over the same thing? Mr. WEITZEL. No, sir. Commissioner GARRETSON. Because those two pastors went to Ludlow? Mr. WEITZEL. No, sir. Commissioner GARRETSON. Never heard of that. Mr. WEITZEL. No, sir. Commissioner GARRETSON. Very well. Mr. WEITZEL. In further support of my contention that the officers of this union teach the things that they should not teach and advocate the things that are wrong, I have the sworn statement here as follows [reading]: “I, Leo J. Kahn, hereby certify that I was present at a meeting of the United Mine Workers' organizers held in the Packer Building, Trinidad, Colo., on or about July 25, 1913, and heard an address made by a man introduced to me as Mr. Wallace, editor of the United Mine Workers' Journal. During Mr. Wallace's address that evening he told the organizers to tell the men to arm themselves with the best rifles money would buy, get up on the hills and not be a damned bit particular who they picked off. The following morning in conversation with Wallace he told me that the methods advised by him the night before was the only way to do it." (The document referred to is printed as "Weitzel Exhibit No. 6.") Mr. WEITZEL (continuing). He is the editor of the United Mine Workers' paper in America. I believe I will offer this United Mine Workers' Journal showing a miner with a pick on one shoulder and a gun in the other hand and "What shall he drop, the gun or the pick?" Chairman WALSH. Was there any part of that that you wanted to read to the commission, Mr. Weitzel? Mr. WEITZEL. No, sir. Chairman WALSH. All right, just turn it over to the stenographer then. Mr. WEITZEL. I believe there is an article in here by you, Mr. Walsh, or something you said-some speech you made somewhere. Chairman WALSH. Well, is it something you wanted to introduce? Mr. WEITZEL. No; just to show the cartoon. Chairman WALSH. What did you mean by the suggestion that there is an article is it something you take exceptions to-- Mr. WEITZEL (interrupting). No, sir; no, sir. Chairman WALSH. If there is, I am perfectly willing it should be read. (The copy of the newspaper was submitted by the witness.) Mr. WEITZEL. In the statements of production that I read I included only October, 1914. In November, 1914, we produced 189,335 tons. During that month our mines in the Trinidad district were idle from one to eight days each, and we could have produced 28,254 tons more at the same rate of production if we had had steady work. We also dumped on the ground during that month, because we had no market in the Walsenburg district, 10,516 tons of coal. (The statement referred to is printed as "Weitzel Exhibit No. 7.") One other thing, and I think I am through. I have made a statement, or it has been made, that the United Mine Workers condone violence. In November of last year George Belcher was assassinated-shot to death on the public street corner in Trinidad. His assassin was arrested and in a confession within a day or two afterwards, he said that he had been promised $1,000 to commit this crime by A. B. McGary, a national organizer, and a man by the name of Carter; I don't know what his business is; but A. B. McGary is well known as a national organizer of the United Mine Workers. A. B. McGary has dis appeared. I talked to the man who drove him out of town, and he said he told him to drive him below Trinidad in an automobile, and when they got down there he forced him to drive him on down into Kansas. This was the night following the assassination of Belcher. He drove him to Garden City, I believe. He has since been a fugitive from justice. Now, in the report of Mr. William Green, international secretary-treasurer of the United Mine Workers of America, December 1, 1913, to May 31, 1914, all of which period is after McGary is alleged to have hired this man to commit murder, McGary is shown on their pay roll, and that he drew $727.89 for that period. (The witness here offered in evidence the report referred to, calling special attention to page 45. The report was submitted in printed form.) I have here a number of clippings from the Free Press, a United Mine Workers' paper in Trinidad. Chairman WALSH. Do you desire to read some of them? Mr. WEITZEL. No; I desire to give them to you, and I ask you to summon the editor. They are marked with pencil-a number of libelous and false statements. Chairman WALSH. What is the name of this editor? Mr. WEITZEL. Adams. I have only clipped the editorials. Chairman WALSH. Very good. If we have time, we will summon him, unless he has already been summoned. Mr. WEITZEL. These are papers and editorials attacking the governor and other State officials and making false statements as to conditions. (The papers and clippings so offered were all in printed form.) I guess that is all. Chairman WALSH. Some gentleman I noticed had a picture there which he evidently wanted to call your attention to. (A framed photograph several feet long was here handed to the witness.) Mr. WEITZEL. That is a picture of our first-aid teams, taken at the contest at Trinidad in 1912. That was the miners' day for the county, and most of the people from the mines came in. All of the teams except the one not in uniform are Colorado Fuel & Iron Co. teams, and the team that is not uniformed is the one that won the first prize and comes from the Victor-American Fuel Co. Chairman WALSH. Have you got that on a reduced scale? Mr. WEITZEL. No, I haven't, on a reduced scale. Chairman WALSH. I would like to get it and put it in the record. Mr. WEITZEL. I will have one made for you, though. Chairman WALSH. Yes; it could be kodaked, or give us a copy without the frame and we will put it in the record, (The photograph referred to was submitted.) One moment, Mr. Weitzel. Some of the commissioners may wish to ask you something. Mr. WEITZEL. Oh, pardon me. Commissioner BALLARD. Just one question; that is, the question of checkweighman once more. As I understand it, the scales where the coal is weighed are outside of the mine, near to what you call the tipple? Mr. WEITZEL. Yes, sir; on the tipple. Commissioner BALLARD. Does the man who weighs that coal know whose coal he is weighing? Mr. WEITZEL. Yes. Commissioner BALLARD. Would it be possible to have that done by number, so that the weighmaster would not know? Mr. WEITZEL. He does not know which it is when he is weighing. The weighmaster stands in the office, and the car is brought on the scales and he gets the weight, and then the car is dumped, and there is a numbered brass check with a number stamped on it that hangs on a hook inside the car, and after it is once weighed this check is handed in to the weighmaster, and the weight is credited to that number. Commissioner BALLARD. I understand that the appointment of a checkweighman is not made for the benefit of the mine operators, but for the men; that the weighmaster may transfer the weight to some other friend or person in the employ of the company? Mr. WEITZEL. Yes, sir; if he knew the check number of a friend, he could do that very easily. Commissioner BALLARD. And that is why they want a checkweighman to prevent that? Mr. WEITZEL. Yes, sir. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Chairman WALSH. Anything else? That seems to be all, Mr. Weitzel. Mr. WEITZEL. I mentioned the C. F. & I. rescue car. Mr. Gove has just called my attention to the fact that the Victor-American also have a car equipped with rescue apparatus and used for training. Chairman WALSH. Similar to this? Mr. WEITZEL. Yes, sir. We have two of them now, although one of them contains fans and motors. Very often it happens at a mine explosion that the ventilation apparatus is destroyed. We built this second car a few years after the other and equipped it with all manner of tools, piping, and hose and put into it a fan that is portable and with motors that will operate on different voltages and with different characteristics of current, so now we are prepared to hook onto any power that is used anywhere in the State. And, of course, our car is at the service of anyone that is in trouble, and we have always taken it, and always do take it, wherever an accident happens, regardless of whose property it is, and we keep a man continuously on the car. It is connected with telephones, and we have an arrangement with the railroad in case of right of way is asked and an engine; that car is to be given right of way over all other trains. Chairman WALSH. Anything else? Mr. WEITZEL. No, sir. Chairman WALSH. Thank you. That is all, Mr. Weitzel. Rev. James McDonald. TESTIMONY OF REV. JAMES MCDONALD. Chairman WALSH. Take that chair, please, Mr. McDonald. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Will you give your name and profession to the reporter? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. James McDonald, Aguilar, Methodist preacher. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. How long have you lived in the strike-zone district? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. I went down there December four years ago-this month four years ago. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. You were connected with the Methodist Church? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Yes, sir; north. Northern Methodist Church-the Methodist Episcopal Church. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. When did you leave the zone district? Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Still residing there? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Yes, sir. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. What was your experience in the district before you became a minister? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. I may say that in coming to Denver four years ago, I was sent down to the Hastings district by W. J. Murray, vice president of the Victor-American, to work as a mechanic, moving boilers from Delagua to Hastings. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. In what camps or towns have you been a min ister? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. My first charge was Hastings, Delagua, and Barnes, which includes Ludlow. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. And after that? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Aguilar and Hastings and Delagua until the strike, and since that time Curtis and Augusta. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. What were your personal observations preceding the strike as to conditions in the camp as to freedom of speech and assembly, for example? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Well, sir, the first evening I was introduced by the superintendent, who was a Scotchman like myself, Cameron, to another old Scotchman who kept or cleaned the lamps, and we took a walk, and he asked me if in Scotland I had been identified with any trade-union. I said, yes; that I had been a member of the United Engine Keepers of Scotland. "Well," he said, "I will give you a bit of friendly advice. Never tell anyone here that you have ever been identified with any organization-workmen's organization." I said, "Why?" "For the reason that some men here have already given up their life for it, and so may you if you do not keep quiet in that matter." Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Who was this party that gave you this advice? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. I just forget his name. He at that time, four years ago, was the man who was responsible for the lamps-the lamp station of the Hastings mine. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Was he a unionist? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Well, I never inquired as to that at all. I don't expect that he was; at any rate I never inquired. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Did you follow his advice? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. As long as I resided in that district. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. That is, you told no one that you had ever been a union man? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Well, I don't know that--for instance, the boss mechanic under whom I was working was well acquainted with the fact that I was a union man. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. What did you find to be the conditions as to the social, political, educational, economic, and moral affairs? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Well, I believe, sir, that the conduct of the strike has had the tendency for to take the minds of the people of Colorado away from what has been the real cause. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. That does not answer my question exactly. The question was what did you find at that time or during the time you were in the camps to be the social conditions, the political conditions, the educational conditions, the economic conditions, and the moral conditions? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. I was just coming to that. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Oh, I thought you had finished your answer. Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. No. I was saying that the conduct has taken the minds of the people away from what has been the real cause, and I believe the cause can be included in all these things-that they had all these grievances. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. What was the cause? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Well, I believe that the people there had a desire for freedom-freedom of speech-freedom to meet just when and how they pleased. I think it would be better possibly if I gave you my own personal experience in that matter. I found that in the Hastings camp there is what they' call a town hall-a hall which 10 years ago had been built by the fraternities, I think it was the Knights of Pythias, and that since that time it has been taken over, or rather at that time it had been taken over by the VictorAmerican Fuel Co. There were no fraternities allowed to meet in that camp at all. And when I went there I found that this was the place which had been given for church services. The ladies themselves had to clean, reseat, and do everything necessary. The operator, the Victor-American Fuel Co., did nothing toward making the place comfortable for the people. The people themselves had to purchase the seats, do all the cleaning, and all the repairs. After I had been in charge there for some time there was an exception taken by the superintendent to the fact that there was a little choir of 30 to 50 children I was training in the evenings in singing, because I found that was one of the things that was entirely neglected in their schools; and the little folks had to pass from one door right to the other end of the hall, and in passing the superintendent claimed that they made so much noise that they disturbed the Italian boarders, who were living in the boarding house directly under the hall. I should have explained that this building is a three-story building; the bottom part is the town jail; the second was an Italian boarding house, and the third story was the town hall. He made conditions then that we would not be allowed to meet with the children in the hallChairman WALSH. Where was that? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Hastings-at any time during the week. He also made it compulsory that we should not have any social evenings with our ladies' aid or other organizations of the church. When we approached him in the matter he told us that if we wanted a hall we could go to the hall that was used by other people, which was the one adjacent to the saloon-in the saloon building-only a door separating the hall from the bar. I then asked him if we could not have the use of the schoolroom for the training of the children. This also was refused, and the reason given that the children's books would be disturbed. Moreover, at the same time our people were given to understand by those who were in charge in that camp that if they did not stop attending church services they were to be fired-their husbands were to be fired-were to be put out of the camp. And I regret to say that while it is impossible for one just to give exact instances or prove the contention, nevertheless, it is a fact that our best-that the ladies who were our best workers in our church at Hastings, that their husbands were fired and no cause given for firing them. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. What was the religion of the man who took this attitude toward you? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. I could not say, sir. I suppose he would be a Presbyterian. Commissioner LENNON. A mighty poor one. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. From personal observations, Mr. McDonald, what do you know as to the feeling of the men in the camps toward the United Mine Workers, as to whether or not they willingly went on the strike? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. I am thoroughly satisfied, sir, that the men were ready when the strike came to go out on the strike. That is to say, more than two-thirds were. I am satisfied that the evidence I have heard along these lines here these last few days is absolutely incorrect. Take our own district where I resided, Aguilar-the mines there, the Green Canyon, the Empire, the Royal, the Western, and the Jewel, were all closed down right away. The Jewel has never resumed work. The Western has gone on with a few men, and the Green Canyon just the same until the acute trouble we had in the Aguilar district. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Were you present this morning when Mr. Weitzel testified? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Yes, sir. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Do you remember that he read some figures to the commission saying that about 12 per cent only of the men employed in certain mines were unionists? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Yes, sir. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Are you in a position to controvert that statement successfully? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. No, sir; I couldn't do that; couldn't do that. I would rather believe, from my own inquiries and coming in contact with these men; that is, the striking miners; I would rather believe that there might be some truth to that; that most of the striking miners just joined the United Mine Workers perhaps a short time previous to the strike, or perhaps when the strike was called. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. What has been your personal experience as a minister as to the management of coal camps? Have you been free, for example, to prosecute your church work? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. No, sir. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. In what way were you hindered? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. I have given one instance. Commissioner WEINSTOCK. Now, whom do you hold responsible in that instance? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Well, I was just coming to give the rest of the story along these lines. I might say that this spirit that was felt, and more especially when the boss mechanic and engineer and some others were fired, whose wives were identified with our church work—that the other people who were directly under the superintendent stopped coming to our services. I may say the fact is that when I took up that work that I had been working with the men, and did work with them for 12 months, along with that, that when I took hold of the services Commissioner WEINSTOCK. When you say that you worked with them, you mean as a miner? Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Not as a miner, sir, but as mechanic. Rev. JAMES MCDONALD. Yes, sir; and worked around there; and the boys crowded out to the church in the evening, and we had always the building |