Chairman WALSH. Now, how many soldiers did you have right there with you when you suggested to the coroner that inasmuch as the district attorney was accompanied by the attorney of the United Mine Workers of America that the coroner should ask the questions? Mr. BOUGHTON. None; as I remember, none. Chairman WALSH. Was it in your camp? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir; in the headquarter's tent. They were all present in the camp. Chairman WALSH. How many soldiers were in your camp? Mr. BOUGHTON. About 400. Chairman WALSH. Was the coroner a civilian? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. Armed or unarmed? Mr. BOUGHTON. Oh, I could not tell you that. Chairman WALSH. He adopted your suggestion? Mr. BOUGHTON. It was a request. Well, judge what it was-I might say I made it as a suggestion. I remarked, "I suggest, Mr. Coroner, that you conduct this examination yourself. I will supply you with all the men you want "; and the coroner's jury there took part. Chairman WALSH. Did you give the coroner any reason why you did not want the district attorney to ask the questions? Mr. BOUGHTON. Mr. Chairman, the district attorney acquiesced in the suggestion with the statement that he felt the propriety of it. Chairman WALSH. My question, however, Major, was-you probably missed it was whether or not you told the coroner the reasons which you have given to the commission here why you did not Mr. BOUGHTON (interrupting). Yes; and I added to it—— Mr. BOUGHTON (continuing). I added this, too, Mr. Chairman: I told him that it was at least unusual for a coroner's jury to investigate the military arm of the State concerning the deaths of those slain in battle, and told him that nevertheless we desired to afford him every facility for inquiry, but suggested that he do it himself. Chairman WALSH. Up to that time had the district attorney examined other witnesses? Mr. BOUGHTON. I could not answer you, sir. Chairman WALSH. Was the district attorney undertaking to examine one of your witnesses at the time you made this statement? Mr. BOUGHTON. I think not. sir. I think it preceded all examinations. Chairman WALSH. Had you ascertained from any source that the district attorney of the county had been conducting any inquiry or examination of any witnesses up to that time? Mr. BOUGHTON. I think not. I assume that that is it. Chairman WALSH. Did you have any information upon which you grounded your assumption? Mr. BOUGHTON. No; except it was the ordinary course for him to do it. Chairman WALSH. You mean the ordinary course in Colorado where there had been conflicts between the workingmen and the militia? Mr. BOUGHTON. No; not that. It is the ordinary course with every coroner's jury, in ordinary times of peace, when the peace officers of the county have not been superseded, for the district attorney to conduct the coroner's jury investigation. Chairman WALSH. For the district attorney to conduct it? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. After you made that statement or request of the coroner, did the district attorney withdraw from the investigation at that time? Mr. BOUGHTON. I believe that he did. I believe that he acquiesced then very graciously. Chairman WALSH. Did he go away? Mr. BOUGHTON. And shortly went away. He walked around-he and I walked around together-he and I and the attorney for the union. We walked around the camp together. Chairman WALSH. You stated, I believe, that after a certain time upon that day that Mr. Tikas, the deceased, became a combatant-briefly state it as possible-what was the act that he committed? Mr. BOUGHTON. The ascertained fact was that he went from the colony with his gun and his field glass and joined the Greeks in the railroad cut. When he was taken prisoner he had no rifle, but his pockets were full of ammunition. Chairman WALSH. Is there any other act that you noticed upon which you based the statement in your direct examination that he had become a combatant? Mr. BOUGHTON. I think not, sir; I don't recall any. Chairman WALSH. What prisoners of war informed your officers that an attack had been planned for Easter Sunday? What were their names? Mr. BOUGHTON. Sir, those are foreign names. I will be very glad to supply them to the commission if I can. They are not on the tip of my tongue at present. Chairman WALSH. Was it William S-n-y-d-e-r? Mr. BOUGHTON. I think he was one. He did say something of that kind; yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. Can you remember any other person who said it? Mr. BOUGHTON. Oh, yes. Yes, I can recall them-I visualize them quite plainly as they were telling their story. Charman WALSH. Well, the numbers, if you can approximate? Mr. BOUGHTON. Oh, some three or four. Chairman WALSH. Were you present when they told you this? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes. Chairman WALSH. It was at the hearing, was it? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes. Chairman WALSH. NOW, was anyone else present except the three members of the commission? Mr. BOUGHTON. In one instance that I recall there was an interpreter, but we found that we could not use him and that we could understand the witnesses ourselves better than with the interpreter. Chairman WALSH. The strikers at that time were contending that a murder had been committed in the case of Louis Tikas and that a massacre had occurred in the Ludlow tent colony, were they not? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes; yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. And among those accusers was a man named William Snyder? Mr. BOUGHTON. I think not, sir. Chairman WALSH. Was William Snyder the same man that the testimony showed carried his dead boy away on his shoulder? Mr. BOUGHTON. Oh, I see what you mean now, sir. After the lapse of two or three days, so we are informed in the columns of the press, two different stories were told by him which did not agree with each other nor with the one he had told our officers that night. Chairman WALSH. Well, what I was asking you was-getting to was-was William Snyder one of these men that was before your commission of three and made a statement that an attack had been planned for Easter Sunday? Mr. BOUGHTON. No, no; he had gone to Trinidad, whither we were not permitted to go-the three of us-or rather did not dare to go. It would have been suicidal to go at that particular time. We relied upon testimony, singly examined, of the officers to whom we talked together at the time. Chairman WALSH. When did William Snyder state to you that an attack had been planned for Easter Sunday? Mr. BOUGHTON. He did not state that to me. I never saw Snyder that I know of. Chairman WALSH. When did he state that to your officers? Mr. BOUGHTON. I told you, Mr. Chairman, that it was my impression that he was among the number who made such a statement. I am not clear upon that now. Chairman WALSH. Did you get from the same source of information later afterwards that Mr. Snyder said that he had been cursed and threatened by the soldiers; that he was in great fear of his life and very anxious to propitiate the militia at that time; and that he told what was not true and thereupon denied it? Mr. BOUGHTON. I never heard that statement before, sir. Chairman WALSH. It may not be correct. I am just asking you the question as to whether it is within your knowledge. Mr. BOUGHTON. No, sir. Chairman WALSH. Did you hear the testimony of a physician at the coroner's inquest, or did you read the testimony of a physician at the coroner's inquest, to the effect that the blow received upon the head by Mr. Tikas might have been sufficiently severe to have caused his death? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. Even if he had not been wounded by the bullets? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. That was the blow that was struck by whom? Mr. BOUGHTON. It may have been the blow struck by Linderfelt, and I may say that it is my opinion that it was. But there was considerable testimony before us that other blows were struck at Tikas. Chairman WALSH. By other members of the militia? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. Was he on the ground when he was struck or standing up? Mr. BOUGHTON. Standing up. Chairman WALSH. Did the testimony show you, upon which you based your conclusions this morning, that this man had been shot running or when he was lying down? Mr. BOUGHTON. I don't know that we have any concrete evidence that would determine that or indicate which it was. Chairman WALSH. Did the testimony show that the two bullets which went entirely through the body of Mr. Tikas entered the back at a point higher up than they emerged at the front of his body? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes. Chairman WALSH. Which way was it-higher up or lower down? Mr. BOUGHTON. Higher up, as I recall it, sir-higher up-shooting down from the embankment. He was a small man, Mr. Chairman-quite small. Chairman WALSH. Quite small and unarmed? Mr. BOUGHTON. At that time; yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. You testified that only 16 Baldwin-Felts detectives were imported? Mr. BOUGHTON. I did not say imported, sir. I don't know where they got them. Chairman WALSH. Did I understand you to say that there were only 16 Baldwin-Felts detectives on this ground during the strike? Mr. BOUGHTON. During the entire strike. In the course of my duties it became significant for me to ascertain that, because if it were true that that detective agency was supplying armed men from the purlieus of the large towns of this country, it would have been incumbent upon me to have stopped it. I went to the agent of that detective agency, A. C. Felts, who made an affidavit to that effect. Chairman WALSH. Made an affidavit to what effect? Mr. BOUGHTON. That only that number of men were employed by his agency at any time, and the same number of men at all times. Chairman WALSH. Did he tell you when he made that affidavit, when you talked with him, that he made a distinction between employing them and gathering them up and sending them out to the mine owners who employed them? Mr. BOUGHTON. I know he made this distinction: He said, "This does not include about as many more who are secret-service men, who are not armed at all, who are employed, perhaps, in the mines at work, and things of that kind, whose identity I don't want to disclose unless I have to"; and I could not see any reason why he should. Chairman WALSH. NOW, Mr. Felts said that to you? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. Now, isn't that fact that during this trouble that Mr. Felts would go to Denver and other cities and send men to the mines where they would be employed by the operators so that they might say they were not Baldwin-Felts detectives? Mr. BOUGHTON. No. It is true, however, as well as I can ascertain, that Felts was used by the coal operating companies to drum up men from the police departments of the large cities-ex-policemen and other men whose characters seemed to justify their employment in that capacity, according to their lights, and send them to the operating companies in some instances. Chairman WALSH. HOW many of such men were sent in there, if you know? Mr. BOUGHTON. A. C. Felts. 38819-S. Doc. 415, 64-1-vol 7--26 Chairman WALSH. Did he tell it in your own inquiry? Mr. BOUGHTON. No; he did not come up Chairman WALSH (interrupting). Well, as I understand it, you are not confining your statements to information from that source, but wherever you learned it? Mr. BOUGHTON. No; I am trying to answer you. No; he told me that he had done that for the companies in quite a number of instances; but that, as compared with the total number of the mine guards employed, he had to do with only a small portion of them. Chairman WALSH. Did you read the testimony given before the congressional committee by Mr. Felts? Mr. BOUGHTON. I don't know that I read it. I heard about it. Chairman WALSH. Did you read the statement from the testimony before the congressional committee to the effect that while there were only 16 of the Baldwin-Felts men on the ground, that most of the mine guards had been selected by Mr. Felts by going around to the different cities of the country and engaging them for service, or arranging them for service, and then sending them into Colorado to be employed by the mine owners? Mr. BOUGHTON. I don't recall that, sir; but that testimony was given before the employment of the guards the last time, you know. Chairman WALSH. I see. Now, in the association of metalliferous miners, for which you have been and are still an attorney, are any of the companies located at Creede in that organization? Mr. BOUGHTON. Not at all; not one. Chairman WALSH. You don't represent any of those? Mr. BOUGHTON. No, sir. Chairman WALSH. Do you know W. P. Ward, of 15 Broad Street, New York, director of the Colorado Fuel & Iron Co.? Mr. BOUGHTON. I never heard of him. Chairman WALSH. Is the Last Dollar Gold Mining Co., of Cripple Creek, one of your companies for whom you work? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. Did you never hear that W. P. Ward was president of the Last Dollar Gold Mining Co., of Cripple Creek, Colo.? Mr. BOUGHTON. No; but I would not know the president and officers-particularly if they do not reside in Colorado-of those companies. You see there are some 200 companies there in Cripple Creek, all holding a membership in this central organization formed for a quite limited purpose. Now, my dealings are with the association as such. Chairman WALSH. What individual employs you as attorney? Mr. BOUGHTON. The corporation known as the mine owners' association. The REPORTER. What individual employs you as attorney? Chairman WALSH. For this corporation? What human being makes the contract? Mr. BOUGHTON. The president, Mr. E. A. Colburn. He is also president of the Ajax Gold Mining Co., one of the constituent members. Chairman WALSH. And is your compensation paid by check or currency? Mr. BOUGHTON. It is paid by check. Chairman WALSH. And does it come from the treasurer of that association in Cripple Creek or elsewhere? Mr. BOUGHTON. In Cripple Creek, sir; from the organization, signed by the president and secretary. Chairman WALSH. Do you know who the directors of the large constituent companies are who are in your organization at Cripple Creek? Mr. BOUGHTON. Oh, I know some, but a very few, sir. Chairman WALSH. Do you know anw of the directors or officials-general officials, or general officers-of the Cripple Creek companies that are also officers of companies in the field where this controversy is going on? Mr. BOUGHTON. Not one, sir. I was under the impression that there were none. Chairman WALSH. If it is a fact that W. P. Ward, of 15 Broad Street, New York City, is a director in the Colorado Fuel & Iron Co., and also president and director in the Last Dollar Gold Mining Co., of Cripple Creek, which you say is one of the constituent members of the association which employees you, are you aware of it? Mr. BOUGHTON. Not aware of it, sir; and it would have no significance. Chairman WALSH. That is all, thank you, Major. Oh, I want to ask you another question. Now, this hearing was rather precipitate, as the ladies came here yesterday and wanted to be heard, and we thought it was fair to hear you also in behalf of the militia and the people whom you represent. And we will, of course, make a full and deeper investigation into these facts. Now, how long do you expect to be in New York? Mr. BOUGHTON. I hope to be able to accomplish something in the direction of my errand within a week. Chairman WALSH. Within a week. Now, during that week, will you be at your present address at the Waldorf? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. Would you be kind enough, if it is not too much trouble, to give to Mr. B. M. Manly, as our director of public hearings, your card so he may get in touch with you and get the names of all witnesses whom you think would make competent witnesses as to the facts when we get to Colorado? Mr. BOUGHTON. Yes, sir; yes, sir; gladly. Chairman WALSH. Who is the president of the mine owners' association? Mr. BOUGHTON. E. A. Colburn, of Denver. Chairman WALSH. That is all, Mr. Boughton, thank you. communicate with you, Major, and we are very much obliged. Judge LINDSEY. I can answer that publicly or privately. TESTIMONY OF JUDGE BEN B. LINDSEY. Mr. Manly will Mr. THOMPSON. Now, just for the purpose of making our record, I will ask you a few preliminary questions. Your name? Judge LINDSEY. My name is Ben B. Lindsey. Mr. THOMPSON. Your address? Judge LINDSEY. Denver, Colo. Mr. THOMPSON. And your profession or Judge LINDSEY. I am a lawyer, a judge on the bench, and have been for 15 years or thereabouts, in the city of Denver. Mr. THOMPSON. Now, you may go on with your story. Judge LINDSEY. I will try, Mr. Chairman, to make my story as connected as possible; but unless I should be misunderstood, I first wish to make a statement as to the statement made by the gentleman who has preceded me, which I think is a good illustration of much of the misunderstanding which grows out of an unfortunate situation like that which you are asked to hear some evidence about. He read from a newspaper saying that a Mr. Lord, representing the miners, had stated that there were 2,000 men, miners, and if necessary there would be 50,000 more ready to resist the militia. The gentleman did not state what Mr. Lord said, neither did the newspapers that he read from state what Mr. Lord said. Mr. Lord said, for I was present when he said, that if the tactics pursued by certain men in the militia that brought about the murders, as he expressed it and claimed, of women and children were repeated in Colorado that there were in that case 2,000 men who had red blood enough in their veins to resist that sort of encroachment under whatever name it might be called, and that there were 50,000 men in this country who were willing to join. Now, that is an entirely different statement from that which the gentleman read and the statement which he would have this commission to believe is true. I merely mention it as a good illustration of how Mr. Lawson could have been misquoted and misrepresented by the paper from which he [the witness Boughton] read. I have talked personally with Mr. Lawson within the last fortnight or so, just before I left Denver. I have talked with Mr. Lawson in the presence of men of the most radical type, who proposed or suggested things that I have heard Mr. Lawson fight against and talk against, and the statements made to me by Mr. Lawson are quite contradictory of the statement the gentleman read from the newspaper purporting to be made by Mr. Lawson. Since I left Denver and since I have been in this city I have found myself misquoted on several different occasions and things put into my mouth that I never said, things put into my mouth that I could not have said; and I wish to state to this commission, because of this fact of which I am a witness, having heard Mr. Lord, that it go very slow in accepting statements made in the newspapers. I have a statement in the Pueblo Chieftain of May 3 that I could offer to this commission, |