Mr. NELSON. It is underneath the Union Hotel, at Third and Washington. Mr. BUSIEK. What business is he in; what kind of a place does he pretend to run? Mr. NELSON, Chinese merchandise store. Mr. BUSIEK. Where did you get those Chinamen? Mr. NELSON. The same place, Vancouver. Mr. BUSIEK. Did this fellow Sing pay you? Mr. NELSON. He paid me; yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. How much? Mr. NELSON. One hundred and fifty. Mr. BUSIEK. And you brought over about 14 for him, you say? Mr. NELSON. About a dozen. Him and a fellow from Bremerton was in together at that time, Sam-they called him Sam. He had a store in Seattle, or was manager of some laundry or something. Mr. BUSIEK. And who was this fellow at Bremerton? Mr. NELSON. From Bremerton, his name is Sam. That is the same party, but he had a store in town, but afterwards shifted to Bremerton. Mr. BUSIEK. The same people up at Vancouver gave you these last ones you were caught with? Mr. NELSON. Yes; it is a kind of an agency up there. Mr. BUSIEK. Do you know Frank Tape? Mr. NELSON. No, sir; I don't believe I ever met the gentleman. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you ever heard of him? Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Through whom did you hear of him? Mr. NELSON. I heard of him through Harry Toy. He is serving a sentence in jail for white slavery. Mr. BUSIEK. What did he tell you? Mr. NELSON. He says, When you go up to the trial you better have your own interpreter in case they are using the two Chinamen against you as witnesses, because," he says, "one interpreter is all right, a kind of fat fellow." I says, “What is his name?" He says, "Tape." He said, “He will do the right thing by you, but the other party," he says, "the chances are will testify too much in behalf of the Government," he says. Mr. BUSIEK. Did these Chinese with whom you do business ever speak about Frank Tape? Mr. NELSON. Never. Chairman WALSH. What was said to you, if anything, about the inspector, the Government inspectors? Mr. NELSON. Never said anything about the inspector. Chairman WALSH. Did you ever meet any of the Government inspectors? Mr. NELSON. Yes, I met several of them. Chairman WALSH. While this was going on or afterwards? Mr. NELSON. Yes, in the meantime, when this was going on. Chairman WALSH. Where did you meet them? Mr. NELSON. Well, I met them in Vancouver. As a rule they come up on one train and they get a few hours' leeway at Vancouver and then stop there and inspect the train that leaves Vancouver. Chairman WALSH. Did they ever look into your engine? Mr. NELSON. Very seldom, about once every two months. Chairman WALSH. Did you ever have any talk with them? Mr. NELSON. Yes, I talked with them a few times. They knew I was smuggling all right, I think. Chairman WALSH. What makes you think they knew you were smuggling? Mr. NELSON. Because they told me I was. Chairman WALSH. Who were the inspectors? Mr. NELSON. Frank Hughes is one, and then Beale. Chairman WALSH. Who? Mr. NELSON. Beale was on up here at that time, but I understand he was dismissed from the service later on. Chairman WALSH. Beale? Mr. NELSON. Beale; yes. Chairman WALSH. What conversation, if any, did you have with Mr. Hughes about it? Mr. NELSON. Why, Hughes says he knew I was smuggling, but he says as long as he didn't catch me at it, why he couldn't find anything, but he says if he caught me at it, of course, he would have to take me. Chairman WALSH. Who did catch you? Mr. NELSON. The immigration inspector up there. I forget what that man's name is. Mr. Downey, I believe, knows. Chairman WALSH. How long had it been going on when you were caught? Mr. NELSON. Oh, I had been smuggling for two years. Chairman WALSH. Did you talk to any other inspector except this one which you have mentioned? Mr. NELSON. No. That is, I have spoken to them, but merely How do you do," something like that, speak about the weather, or something like that. Chairman WALSH. Are you acquainted with Mr. Monroe? Mr. NELSON. No. Chairman WALSH. Never talked to him? Mr. NELSON. I don't believe I have. Chairman WALSH. I think that is all. Mr. BUSIEK. Thank you, Mr. Nelson. Chairman WALSH. Much obliged to you, Mr. Downey. TESTIMONY OF MR. SEID GAIN OR BACK, JR. Chairman WALSH. You do solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give at the hearing now pending before this commission, being an investigation into the alleged smuggling of Asiaties into the United States, will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir. Chairman WALSH. Take that chair. Mr. BUSIEK. Please state your name in full. Mr. GAIN. Seid Gain, better known as Seid Back, jr., in Portland. Chairman WALSH. Seid what? Mr. GAIN. Seid Back, jr. Mr. BUSIEK. What business are you in? Mr. GAIN. Attorney at law by profession; Chinese merchant and contractor by trade. Chairman WALSH. Are you a native of this country or a Chinaman? Mr. GAIN. I am a native of this country, born in the city of Portland. Mr. BUSIEK. Where did you receive your education, Mr. Gain? Mr. GAIN. Principally in Portland, Oreg. Mr. BUSIEK. And what schools did you attend there? Mr. GAIN. I attended the-at first I had private tutors. Afterwards at tended a military academy for two years. After that I attended the law department of the University of Oregon. Mr. BUSIEK. Your father is a hop grower, I believe? Mr. GAIN. He is a Chinese merchant principally. Lately he has engaged in the hop-raising business. Mr. BUSIER. Were you ever connected with the Immigration Department of this Government? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir; I was six and a half years in it. Mr. BUSIEK. And where were you stationed during that time? Mr. GAIN. For five years in Portland, and a year and a half traveling throughout the country as chief interpreter. Mr. BUSIEK. And why did you sever your connection with the service, or how did that come about? Mr. GAIN. It has been in my mind that, I think, I have touched on matters in connection with various interpreters that I believe were dishonest, and I was detailed-my principal detail originally was supposed to be that of an investigating officer instead of an interpreter. Nevertheless I was detailed up to Sumas, Wash. There I was put for several months. I was so disgusted, that I just left voluntarily. Mr. BUSIEK. Resigned? Mr. GAIN. Resigned. Mr. BUSIEK. During the time that you were making investigations of other officers, whom did you investigate? Mr. GAIN. My first case was that of Frank Tape. Mr. BUSIEK. What kind of a report did you turn in on Frank Tape? Mr. GAIN. He was charged with extortion and blackmailing. The charges were brought in St. Louis. Chairman WALSH. When was that? Mr. GAIN. That was in 1907. Mr. BUSIEK. They were preferred by whom? to me. Mr. BUSIEK. What finding did you make? That was my first case assigned Mr. GAIN. In that particular case it was so fixed up that I reported favorably; that is, I reported that the charges in that particular case were gotten up as a scheme against Frank Tape. Commissioner O'CONNELL. He says he was so fixed up. Why? Mr. BUSIEK. You say it was so fixed up. Explain that to the commission. Mr. GAIN. There were two or three Chinese combined themselves and brought these charges, but the statements were so ridiculous that I reported that those charges were concocted. Mr. BUSIEK. Did you make any further investigation of Tape? Mr. BUSIEK. Tell us about that. Mr. GAIN. I have known Frank Tape years before that, and I have always heard that he was very dishonest. In the first place he went to the St. Louis fair in 1903 as an interpreter for the Chinese concession, and somehow he got into the Immigration Service. So while I was told to investigate his character and integrity, reports came to me from different sources that he was extorting money from several Chinese there who were unlawfully in the country. Statements by these people were given me, and notes were taken by a stenographer I employed, but coming down to signing these statements these people refused to do so. So for my own protection, naturally, I could not-I would not have been able to substantiate the statements. However, I believe I still have those notes and copies made from them. Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever take the matter up with Tape and he agreed to resign? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir; in 1908, I believe it was, I was told to examine him as to his competency as a Chinese interpreter, he knowing that he was incompetent, that the best way to get out of it would be to resign. Taking him to be a man of his word, I reported to the bureau that I saw no reason at that time to investigate his competency, and that I would drop the matter. Subsequently, after I left the service, somehow he got back in the service. Chairman WALSH. When was that? Mr. GAIN. That was in 1908-no: 1907. Chairman WALSH. Are you acquainted with Mr. Taylor? Mr. GAIN. No, sir; I am not. I have heard of him, but I never had the pleasure of meeting him. Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever work with Harry Etzold? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Where? Mr. GAIN. At the port of Sumas, where I stated a little while ago. Mr. BUSIEK. Did Etzold get into any trouble up at Sumas? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir. I think it was after I left the service that there was a report in the newspapers that he smuggled some cloth over from Canada, and in that article it gave the news that he was hung in effigy. Mr. BUSIEK. By whom? Mr. GAIN. By the citizens of Sumas. Mr. BUSIEK. Where is Harry Etzold now? Mr. GAIN. He is assistant commissioner of Immigration Service, stationed at San Francisco. Mr. BUSIEK. Do you know a Chinese interpreter by the name of Chin Hing? Mr. GAIN. Henry Chin Hing; yes, sir; I do. Mr. BUSIEK. Where is he stationed, do you know? Mr. GAIN. Up to recently he was at British Columbia, at Vancouver; but I know he is down at Seattle now. Mr. BUSIEK. That is the fact. I will state for the information of the commission that he has just been detailed here to take Frank Tape's place. What is Chin Hing's reputation as an interpreter among the Chinese? Mr. GAIN. At the time of my investigation of his ability I found that he was somewhat-not fully capable of holding that position. However, he ex plained that he was associating with American people, so that he somewhat forgot his Chinese language. When I was examining him he was in a college town by the name of Jefferson City, Tenn., and I could not find very much of his record; but I was told by Mr. W. H. Baker, a clerk of the Treasury Department in Washington, that he would give me assurance that Henry Ching Hing's character was good. On that recommendation, I think, I made a favorable report on his application. Mr. BUSIEK. What is his reputation now among the Chinese? Mr. GAIN. I have since learned that he has been vary harsh in examining— in interpreting for the applicants. He would make threats; he would use harsh words; that will naturally scare a newcomer somewhat. Mr. BUSIEK. Is it a fact he also has a reputation of taking money, just like Frank Tape? Mr. GAIN. That is what I have heard. Mr. BUSIEK. Is that his general reputation or do you just hear rumors? Chairman WALSH. Who is it sends them here? Mr. BUSIEK. Why, Taylor. Taylor just wired White that he had wired Henry Ching Hing that he was assigned to this office vice Tape. Do you know a Chinese interpreter who goes by the name of Dr. Gardner? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Where is he located? Mr. GAIN. Dr. John Gardner is stationed at San Francisco. He acted more as inspector than as interpreter while I was there. Mr. BUSIEK. What is his reputation--his general reputation? Mr. GAIN. His general reputation is very bad; known to be the slickest crook ever existing. Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever make an investigation of Dr. Gardner? Mr. GAIN. No, sir. I wish I had authority, but I was only examining the interpreters, so that I did not touch upon his official position. Mr. BUSIEK. Did you have any information as to Gardner and Etzold owning property in common? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir. Friends told me that. I would like to say in this connection that just before he entered the Government service, which was about 10 years ago, I should judge, he came from Victoria, British Columbia, borrowing his passage money. He at that time was some sort of preacher. Now, I understand, he is worth at least $300,000. Mr. BUSIEK. I believe that is all I want to ask. Chairman WALSH. That is all. Commissioner LENNON. What is your business now, did you state? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir; I am with my father engaged in general Chinese merchandise business. Commissioner LENNON. Here in Seattle? Mr. GAIN. In Portland. Commissioner LENNON. That is all. Mr. GAIN. May I add something? Chairman WALSH. Yes; certainly. Mr. GAIN. I might just as well. While I was acting as interpreter at large there was a commission authorized known as the immigration commission, the head of which was Prof. Jinks. Several of the applicants I reported adversely were appointed by that commission. I desire to call your attention to one particular instance which was sustained; that was the case of Holin Shak. He originally was a Portland man; that is where I knew him full well. He was a heavy opium smoker. While I was investigating his case he was at Los Angeles. I found him one day in a gambling house playing the Chinese fantan game. I reported that fact to the bureau, and I still have a copy of my report. I might say here that all my reports to the bureau I kept the carbon copy. Somehow he was appointed. Chairman WALSH. What was his name? Mr. GAIN. Holin Shak, and he was killed recently in St. Louis. So I submit these facts for your consideration. Commissioner O'CONNELL. Let me ask you this, do you know a man by the name of Lola? Mr. GAIN. No, sir; I do not. Mr. BUSIEK. Or Garland or Otis or Gray? Mr. GAIN. No, sir; I do not. Commissioner O'CONNELL. Do you know the man that made the investigation for the commission? Mr. GAIN. No, sir; I don't. Charlie Key Mr. BUSIEK. Do you know the man Charlie Key worked for? Mr. GAIN. No, sir; I don't recall, but Key himself did not bear a very good reputation. Mr. BUSIEK. He was killed in Seattle? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Last year? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir. Commissioner LENNON. Are there any Chinese societies in Seattle? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir; some Chinese societies here, on the coast here. Commissioner LENNON. Are part of the things we see in the papers from time to time about what we call the Highbinders-is there any truth in what we sec in the newspapers about such societies? Mr. GAIN. Yes, sir. Commissioner LENNON. Lawbreakers? Mr. GAIN. I would hardly say that. There are two different kinds of tongs or societies. One is formed lawfully for the protection of their own clansmen, In other words, a beneficial association among the clans. Chinese are very clannish. The other is formed principally by gamblers or men that live off of the earnings of women; those societies naturally are unlawful. Commissioner LENNON. Is there a constant antagonism between these socie Ges? Mr. GAIN. Not lately, Chinese usually settle their disputes among themselves. If they can't settle them peacefully they like to fight it out. Mr. BUSIEK. There has been a peace agreement signed recently between the two tongs, has there not? Mr. GAIN. Yes; peace societies have been formed throughout the United States and many tong wars have been averted. Commissioner LENNON. What do you know or what do you believe as to the number of Chinamen in the United States who are here contrary to the law? What per cent of them do you believe are here contrary to the law? Mr. GAIN. I suppose about 10 per cent. Commissioner LENNON, How many Chinese are there in Washington—the State of Washington? Mr. GAIN. In th State of Washington there could not be more than 500—no; I would say more than that. Throughout the United States I think there are about 50,000 now. Commissioner LENNON. The testimony in some places shows that the number of Chinese in certain cities is increasing; is that true of Portland and Seattle? Mr. GAIN. No, sir. We are in the contracting business, and we have been having trouble in getting Chinese labor to fulfill our contracts. Commissioner LENNON. That is all. Chairman WALSH. That is all. Thank you. (The members of the commission conferred together.) Chairman WALSH. Well, I guess we will stand adjourned to meet in Portland at 10 o'clock day after to-morrow morning. (Whereupon, at 4 o'clock p. m. of this Tuesday. August 18, 1914, the executive session of the commission was closed, and an adjournment was taken to meet in the city of Portland, Oreg., on Thursday, August 20, 1914, at the hour of 10 o'clock a. m.) (The hearing in Portland, Oreg., was on the subject of general industrial conditions and relations in Portland and will be found in a previous part of this work.) SAN FRANCISCo, Ca....., Friday, September 4, 1914—10 a. m. Present: Chairman Walsh, Commissioners Weinstock, Garretson, Lennon, O'Connell, and Commons. W. O. Thompson, counsel; E. H. Busiek, examining counsel. Chairman WALSH. We will now go into executive session. Mr. Busiek, did you have some matter that you wanted to bring up? Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. Hayes. |