Mr. BUSIEK. Wouldn't it have been a good idea to have put the officers all on their guard to watch out for those numbered certificates? Wouldn't that have been the right thing to do under the circumstances?

Chairman WALSH. He says he don't recall.

Mr. DE BRULER. Now, I don't recall. I don't

Chairman WALSH. One moment. I will make it short, if you will allow me to:

If such an interval did elapse, assuming that such an interval did elapse between the loss of that papers and the report, have you any reason now to give therefor?

Mr. DE BRULER. I don't remember now what it was, why it was not reported sooner. I can't recall.

Chairman WALSH. These were returned by Frank Tape, were they not?

Mr. DE BRULER. They were.

Chairman WALSH. In company with Inspector Monroe?

Mr. DE BRULER. Yes, sir; they were.

Chairman WALSH. Did he tell you who he got them from?

Mr. DE BRULER. No, sir; excepting that he recovered them from some Chinaman, and I remember in that case let me make a detailed statement of that right here now. I tried to get Tape to give me the name of the Chinaman through whom he was getting his information as to where the certificates were and what he knew about them. He said that before he could get any information himself he had to state to the Chinaman, through whom he got his information, that he would not divulge his name under any circumstances, and for that reason the Chinaman would not come and present himself to me. I asked him at different times, if possible to get this Chinaman to come to me, that I wanted to talk with him, but he said he had first promised the Chinaman he wouldn't do it, and before I made the final report to Washington or reported to Washington, Frank Tape was called off by the bureau to join Dick Taylor in investigating smuggling in Porto Rico, I think, and when Tape returned I again asked him if it would not be possible for me to get to the Chinaman, and he then said the Chinaman, during the time of his absence, had gone to China.

Chairman WALSH. Did you ask Tape whether he stole the papers himself or not? Mr. DE BRULER. No, sir; I didn't ask him whether he stole them himself or not.

Chairman WALSH. Did you have any suspicion he might have been the culprit or in league with them under those circumstances?

Mr. DE BRULER. It was a mere speculation as to who took them. Only certain officers had access to the vault.

Chairman WALSH. Who were they?

Mr. DE BRULER. And those I forgot.

Chairman WALSH. Did Monroe have access to the vault?

Mr. DE BRULER. I think he did.

Chairman WALSH. And Monroe and Tape went together to hunt for the papers?

Mr. DE BRULER. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. And Tape came back with the papers?

Mr. DE BRULER. Tape came back-not all at once, these papers were returned at different times.

Chairman WALSH. He brought some back with Monroe?

Mr. DE BRULER. At one time they went to Portland and brought some back. Chairman WALSH. Did you ever report to the district attorney or attempt to set on foot a prosecution?

Mr. DE BRULER. No, sir; I reported to the bureau. I always report all facts to the bureau.

Chairman WALSH. Did you report that Tape had recovered part of these and refused to divulge the name of the man from whom he obtained them?

Mr. DE BRULER. I don't remember what my report to the bureau contained; that would speak for itself.

Mr. BUSIEK. Do you remember the instance of some 96 students being admitted to Adelphia College here in the year 1910?

Mr. DE BRULER. I do.

Mr. BUSIEK. And it is true, is it not, that all these 96 students deserted Adelphia College and scattered around here in Seattle and around in the country, is it not?

Mr. DE BRULER. The 96 students, as I recall it, were at Adelphia College but a few months, and upon trying to get trace of them, I was unable to do so. Mr. BUSIEK. How much of an investigation did you make of that case, or how thorough? Did you find out who brought them over?

Mr. DE BRULER. Yes, sir; it was a Mr. Stevens brought them over.

Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. Stevens was the sponsor, was he not?

Mr. DE BRULER. As I recall it; yes, sir.

Mr. BUSIEK. What was Stevens's explantion?

Mr. DE BRULER. That whole matter has been reported to the bureau some five or six times, and my reports are on file, and I would prefer to refer to that, because I might forget. It has been so long ago that I might make misstatements. My reports are on file.

Chairman WALSH. In those reports you undertake to give ali the facts within your knowledge?

Mr. DE BRULER. All the facts within my knowledge.

Chairman WALSH. Did Tape have anything to do with the investigation?

Mr. DE BRULER. I don't remember at this time. I do remember that Tape was rather opposed to the admission of these Chinamen in a general way, I don't remember 'what way.

Chairman WALSH. Did Monroe have anything to do with the investigation? Mr. DE BRULER. Oh, yes; Monroe and Tape, as I recall it, handled the case. Chairman WALSH. They handled the whole matter?

Mr. DE BRULER. Those Chinamen were not let in until it was reported to the bureau at Washington, or in fact before they were approved by the bureau at Washington, then they were let in.

Chairman WALSH. Then, after the scattering of the Chinamen, what was

done?

Mr. DE BRULER. I asked for a report from time to time as to where they were, but I was unable to find them.

Chairman WALSH. Who was the one who made that report-Mr. Monroe?

Mr. DE BRULER. Mr. Monroe was the one that was to get that report; I am not positive about it.

Chairman WALSH. And Tape?

Mr. DE BRULER. I don't remember whether Tape was detailed on that; I have no recollection of that.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever make an investigation as to Stevens, as to his financial means before and after these students came in?

Mr. DE BRULER. As I said before, yes; and all the investigation I made was at the request of the bureau and reported to the bureau.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever take this matter up with the district attorney? Mr. DE BRULER. Not that I recall of, at least, I never did.

Chairman WALSH. Was it your custom to report known violations of the law to the Federal officers in the district?

Mr. DE BRULER. My custom was to report everything to the bureau.
Chairman WALSH. Not report direct in any instance?

Mr. DE BRULER. I may have reported direct in some instances to the district attorney, but I don't recall it now. My general practice was to report all facts to the bureau, and let any action be taken from there.

Mr. BUSIEK. Do you remember the case of some students coming through Seattle destined to Ashburnham, Mass., to Cushing Academy, some 24 students, and some correspondence which your office subsequently had with the Boston office in regard to that?

Mr. DE BRULER. There were several bands of students came through; I don't remember that particular band of students now.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever know some Chinese by the name of Moy J. Hing and Sarah E. Hing, his wife, running an old medical company in Seattle, and did you ever call on them and inquire of them as to a bunch of students which they took over to Ashburnham, Mass. ?

Mr. DE BRULER. I don't recall, really. About when was that?

Mr. BUSIEK. 1911.

Mr. DE BRULER. They came through Seattle?

Mr. BUSIEK. Yes, sir.

Mr. DE BRULER. There were several bands came through.

Mr. BUSIEK. These students, Mr. de Bruler, entered here in the summer of 1911-in the fall of 1911-and got to Ashburnham, Mass., in November, 1911, and there were 20 of them, and they escaped within three weeks, and the Boston office then took up a search for these students, and the Boston officers

tell us they had some correspondence with your office in regard to Moy J. Hing and Sarah E. Hing, his wife, this Mrs. Moy J. Hing having represented herself as a Y. W. C. A. and W. C. T. U. worker and teacher in China.

Mr. DE BRULER. I have a general recollection of that, but I don't remember particularly.

Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. McCabe succeeded in locating Moy J. Hing and Sarah E. Hing, his wife, in Seattle, and our information is he requested you to take appropriate steps to bring Moy J. Hing and his wife to answer for bringing these students in and furnished you with such evidence as he had. Do you remember ever taking any active steps?

Mr. DE BRULER. Our records will show just what I did. I don't know just what I did.

Chairman WALSH. You have recollection of the details of the Moy J. Hing matter?

Mr. DE BRULER. No, sir; I do not. Our records would show what I did, and that is all I know.

Chairman WALSH. Are you personally acquainted with Moy J. Hing?
Mr. DE BRULER. No, sir.

Chairman WALSH. Are you personally acquainted with Mrs. Hing?

Mr. DE BRULER. I may have met them, but I have no recollection of it. I wouldn't say I haven't met them or talked with them, but I don't now recall it. Mr. BUSIEK. What is your personal opinion of Frank Tape, as to his honesty and fitness for the service?

Mr. DE BRULER. I don't know just-I scarcely know how to answer that. As an interpreter he is an able interpreter; as a detective he is a good detective; as to whether or not he is dishonest, I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt until he is proved otherwise.

Chairman WALSH. What was the general reputation of Frank Tape in the service when were these charges brought?

Mr. BUSIEK. July, this year.

Chairman WALSH. What was the general reputation of Frank Tape in the service prior to July, 1914, as to honesty and morality?

Mr. DE BRULER. As I have said several times several of the inspectors at times questioned his honesty.

Chairman WALSH. You know what general reputation is?

Mr. DE BRULER. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. It is what people generally think of a man and say of him. Mr. DE BRULER. The general reputation; his general reputation among the inspectors as a rule was not very good.

Chairman WALSH. That is all.

Mr. BUSIEK. Did you ever give orders that he be checked up by having the other interpreter follow him in interpretations unknown to Tape?

Mr. DE BRULER. In, I think, two or three cases we did that.

Mr. BUSIEK. Didn't you find discrepancies in every instance where you sent the other interpreter?

Mr. DE BRULER. I don't recall that we did. It wasn't reported to me, if so. Mr. BUSIEK. Didn't you tell Assistant Commissioner Sargent just before you severed your connection with the service that you didn't have any confidence with Tape, and that if any trouble arose during the new régime that Tape would cause it?

Mr. DE BRULER. I talked the matter of Tape over with Mr. Sargent at different times, and we discussed the fact that he was more or less under suspicion, but always deferred doing anything because we were not able to get any evidence against him.

Mr. BUSIEK. Well, did you ever try to get any evidence against him, did you ever try to substantiate a single charge that you heard against Frank Tape? Mr. DE BRULER. I told every inspector, sir, and talked to him on the subject, that I wished, if possible, he would bring me something to act upon against Tape, that there was talk from time to time, but I never could get anything on which to base any action or make any report. I want it distinctly understood that the inspectors were free to talk to me about Tape, and I would have been only too glad for them to have gotten any evidence any time if they could have produced it.

Chairman WALSH. Did Tape ever offer you a present large or small?

Mr. DE BRULER. Tape never did, and I want the commission here to distinctly understand that I didn't accept presents from anybody while I was in the service.

Chairman WALSH, Large or small?

Mr. DE BRULER. Large or small, from anybody.

Mr. BUSICK. That is all.

Chairman WALSH. That is all.

Mr. DE BRULER. If my honesty is under question here I want to know it. Chairman WALSH. Your honesty is not under investigation at all.

Mr. DE BRULER. I probably have made some mistakes. I am human, and presume that I did. But I always acted with what I regarded as the best under all circumstances. And I have no apology to make to any living man as to my conduct during the time I was in the Immigration Service.

Mr. BUSIEK. Thank you. Inspector Monroe. Just be seated, Mr. Monroe. First, be sworn.

Mr. BUSIEK. Inspector Monroe. Just be seated, Mr. Monroe. First, be sworn. Chairman WALSH. Be sworn first. You do solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give at the hearing now ending before this commission, being an investigation into the alleged smuggling of Asiatics into the United States, will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. MONROE. I do.

TESTIMONY OF MR. HENRY A. MONROE.

Mr. BUSIEK. Please state your name in full, Mr. Monroe.

Mr. MONROE. Henry A. Monroe.

Mr. BUSIEK. And your business?

Mr. MONROE, I am an inspector in the Immigration Sevice.

Mr. BUSIEK: How long have you been in the Immigration Service?

Mr. MONROE. Ten years or more.

Mr. BUSIEK. Where were you born, Mr. Monroe?

Mr. MONROE. Born in Canada.

Mr. BUSIEK. How long ago?

Mr. MONROE. Fifty years ago.

Mr. BUSIEK. How long have you lived in this country?

Mr. MONROE. Thirty-two or three years.

Mr. BUSIEK. What occupations have you followed?

Mr. MONROE. I have only been in the Government service.

Mr. BUSIEK. And you have been in the Government service how many years?

Mr. MONROE. Since I was 21 years of age.

Mr. BUSIEK. And in what departments?

Mr. MONROE. In the Post Office Department in St. Paul, Minn., and between 10 and 11 years in the Immigration Department out here.

Mr. BUSIEK. And how long

Chairman WALSH. At Seattle all the time?

Mr. BUSIEK. How long have you been in Seattle?

Mr. MONROE. Seven years.

Mr. BUSIEK. Where were you before you came to Seattle?

Mr. MONROE. Port Townsend, Wash.

Mr. BUSIEK. And did you serve in any other offices?

Mr. MONROE. I served for a short time at Anacortes up near Port Townsend. Mr. BUSIEK. You are in charge of the Chinese work here at this port, are you not?

Mr. MONROE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BUSIEK. How long have you been in charge of the Chinese work?

Mr. MONROE. About eight years.

Mr. BUSIEK. And how long has Frank Tape been interpreter here?

Mr. MONROE. Between five and six years.

Mr. BUSIEK. Have you another interpreter here?

Mr. MONROE. Yes.

Mr. BUSIEK. But Frank Tape is the chief interpreter, is that it?

Mr. MONROE. No; the interpreters are of equal standing; equal salary.

Mr. BUSIEK. Whom do you use more?

Mr. MONROE. Beg your pardon?

Mr. BUSIEK. Whom do you use the most?

Mr. MONROE, They are used about equally, or have been, I mean.

Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. Monroe, are you familiar with the case of the 96 students that were admitted to Adelphia Academy in 1910?

Mr. MONROE. I am.

38819-S. Doc. 415, 64-1-vol 7-12

Mr. BUSIEK. These students, how long were they detained before theyChairman WALSH. Let us have a brief history of that entire transaction first in Mr. Monroe's own language, please, from beginning to end, as briefly as you can tell it.

Mr. MONROE. I do not know where to start.

Chairman WALSH. Well, the starting place would be when your attention was first called to the desire of any person to locate such students.

Mr. MONROE. Oh, yes; I get it now.

Chairman WALSH. The very first of the transaction,

Mr. MONROE. Before leaving for China with the idea, apparently, of bringing in a few students or assisting some local Chinese in having their friends brought here as students, Mr. Stevens, a lawyer of this city, called at our office.

Chairman WALSH. What is his first name?

Mr. BUSIEK. Claude E.

Mr. MONROE. Claude E., that is right; Claude E. Stevens. He got a copy of the law and made some inquiries on the subject. He did not go into it very extensively and did not reveal the fact at that time that he intended to bring in a number of students. He was going over there on a trip and stated that there were a few friends in Seattle who had retained him to look after some boys on the way back. Three or four months later

Chairman WALSH. With whom did he have this conversation, Mr. Monroe? Mr. MONROE. Myself.

Chairman WALSH. I wish you would state in substance the entire conversa

tion.

Mr. MONROE. I have very nearly told you all he said.
Chairman WALSH. Very good. Very well.

Mr. MONROE. It was a small affair.

Chairman WALSH. That is all you recall?

Mr. MONROE. Yes; some time-some four months later I learned of his haying arrived at the port of San Francisco with 44 students for Adelphia College. Chairman WALSH. Where is Adelphia College?

Mr. MONROE. It is a college here in Seattle situated on the boulevard out near the university district.

Chairman WALSH. Give us a brief description of it. Is it a nonsectarian school? Mr. MONROE. I think it is connected with the Lutheran Church organization, but I am not sure.

Chairman WALSH. Describe how large a college it is, if you know.

Mr. MONROE. I have only driven past the buildings. There are two large brick buildings.

Chairman WALSH. About how many students?

Mr. MONROE. I have no idea.

Chairman WALSH. Had there been any Chinese there to your knowledge prior to that time?

Mr. MONROE. Some five or six, I understand.

Chairman WALSH. Proceed.

Mr. MONROE. It was two students out of this college that went back with Mr. Stevens and acted as his secretaries and interpreters on the trip. Their names were Paul M. Lewis and Mark Ging. These boys are still in Seattle. I know nothing of the San Francisco 44, except that they were finally landed under bond and that subsequently the bond was canceled and they were landed outright. They came to Seattle and started to attend this college. Some weeks or a month later, about 62 students arrived at this port, the balance of the party. We held them up and submitted the matter to Washington.

Chairman WALSH. Just describe what you did in holding them up.

Mr. MONROE. We examined them.

Chairman WALSH. Who?

Mr. MONROE. Myself and Mr. Mangus and Mr. Stewart, the other inspectors around the office.

Chairman WALSH. What interpreters?

Mr. MONROE. We probably used both interpreters,

Chairman WALSH. Do you recall?

Mr. MONROE. I don't know. The records in our office would show.
Chairman WALSH. Go ahead.