Mr. BUSIEK. That represents the sum total Mr. MCCABE. I did not have 20. I have not had in this district-since January 8, 1909, up to the present time in the metropolitan district Commissioner Hayes has heard the cases of 16. Commissioner O'CONNELL. Since when? Mr. MCCABE. Since January 8, 1909, up to the present time 16 cases were brought before Commissioner Hayes for unlawful residence. Mr. BUSIEK. What did he do with the 16 cases? Mr. MCCABE. Ordered deportation in seven, discharged seven, and discontinued one as the defendant departed for China at his own request, and one case is pending. Mr. BUSIEK. How many cases have you brought or worked up Mr. MCCABE (interrupting). That is a pretty good record unless I qualify Commissioner O'CONNELL. Only seven deportation cases since 1909? Mr. MCCABE. That is, out of 16; of the seven ordered deported four were the so-called Springfield Hay Car cases. They had gotten in a hay car coming from the border; and one had smuggled back into the country after deportation from Norfolk, Va., about five years ago, leaving but two cases in which there was not the most convincing evidence offered by the Government as to the illegality of the defendants' residence here. So he practically did not have anything to do in the cases he ordered deported-no chance for exercising any weighty decision. Only in two cases. The rest were dead open and shut and he had to order them to be deported. Now of the discharges--of the seven discharges those connected with the prosecution of the cases admitted that only in two of them was the discharge justifiable. In the cases of the other five defendants discharged they were briefly discussed in a letter to the district attorney of Massachusetts in the matter of designating somebody else to hear Mr. BUSIEK (interrupting). Will you furnish the commission with a copy of that letter? Mr. MCCABE. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, to get back to the proposition we started out on, you concede it as a fact that there are thousands of Chinese in this country who have no right to be here, and whose troubles virtually cease when they cross the border and mingle with the Chinese colony in the various cities? Mr. MCCABE. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Another trouble is, as you will admit, will you not, that there is no organized effort to inspect the Chinese now in this country? That is, no check is kept on those who are here. There is no system whereby the immigration authorities can readily check up on the Chinese in this country? Mr. MCCABE. Well, it was said at the time we were making the census in 1905 and we were called off, that that was the purpose of it, was to find out how many were lawfully here and that later arrests would be made. Mr. BUSIEK. Who called you off? Mr. MCCABE. Well, we were told by the bureau to discontinue it. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you any idea officially-received officially or unofficiallywho was the moving cause or what was the moving cause of your being called off? Mr. MCCABE. Well, I think at the time there was some rumor about it not being constitutional or something-I don't know-I know we were told to discontinue it, and the bureau would be able to explain. Commissioner LENNON. You have no system whereby you can tell whether there are more Chinamen in Boston this month than there was a month ago? Mr. MCCABE, NO. Mr. BUSIEK. Another fact stands conceded, and that is that interpreters— Chinese interpreters do not furnish their inspectors with the information which they themselves Mr. MCCABE (interrupting). Have an opportunity of getting. Mr. BUSIEK (continuing). Have an opportunity of getting? Mr. MCCABE. No; they do not. Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. McCabe, if this commission has a report that you are or can be found frequently at the Yen Wing Low restaurant at night with your interpreter, would that report be true or false? Mr. MCCABE. Be false from start to finish-totally unfounded. Mr. MCCABE. I have dined probably 15 or 20 times in 10 years at what I call the Royal restaurant which at one time was at No. 15 Harrison Avenue and is now across the street at No. 18. Mr. BUSIEK. Nos. 18 to 22? Mr. MCCABE. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Who runs that place? Mr. MCCABE. Chin Fong, I think, is the manager of it. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you ever been there with Charley Hoiske? Mr. MCCABE, No. Mr. BUSIEK. Then we can label that report false? Mr. MCCABE. Yes; from start to finish. The restaurant that you allude to I don't know-what was the name of it? Or what number? Mr. BUSIEK. It is Nos. 18 to 22 Harrison Street. Mr. MCCABE. Well, that must be the Royal restaurant. That is what I call the Royal restaurant. I was there, yes; I have eaten there in the 10 years probably 18 or 20 times. Mr. BUSIEK. Do you know a laundryman by the name of Moy Dong June, of Marblehead? Mr. MCCABE. No, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Do you know of any relative your interpreter has at that place? Mr. MCCABE, In Marblehead? No. Mr. BUSIEK. Can you locate that man, a laundryman in Marblehead? Mr. MCCABE. I know Jung Daw, who is at No. 5 Oxford, with Hap Yick Ling & Co. What relation is this Moy Jung Daw supposed to be to my interpreter? Mr. BUSIEK. He is supposed to be a nephew of your interpreter ? Mr. MCCABE. I don't doubt a bit but what he is and but what he applied for admission to enter Boston and was deported and paid the head tax to Canada and had him smuggled in. Mr. BUSIEK. That is our information. Mr. MCCABE, I don't doubt it now you have that information. I believe he is. Mr. BUSIEK. Any information you have about him? Mr. MCCABE. No; I always suspected him, in view of the fact that the fellow paid a head tax in Canada, that he paid it for the purpose of smuggling into the United States. Mr. BUSIEK. Well, Mr. McCabe, I am going to give you this man's address and ask you to make a private report to the commission on this man. You will know best how you can go about that. Mr. MCCABE. This man's name Mr. BUSIEK. I have just given you. Mr. MCCABE. Yes; I have his record in the office. In fact, the man-if it had not been for the interpreter himself being an uncle of the boy, and having made a previous statement in his own case, why, the fellow would have been admitted. The only thing was that the fellow's own statement showed the boy was over 21 and he was ordered deported. Mr. BUSIEK. I have not the address of this Chinese at Marblehead, but he is in a laundry there. Now, your interpreter, Moy Schere or Moy Fooh, attempted to assist in getting this boy into the country, didn't he, when he tried to enter Boston as the son of a merchant? Mr. MCCABE. No; he did not; but I distinctly told him that it was absolutely useless to take any appeal or anything. I told the interpreter-for instance, when the boy applied for admission, I sent to get the interpreter's record, to see what he said, when he was coming in, about his family relation. In that he mentioned this brother and said he had this son and that he was such an age. Then, that at the time he applied for admission to Boston showed he was over 21; and while Moy's brother proved his merchant's status, the son was not eligible for admission, being over 21, and for that reason he was deported; and when he was deported, why, we sent the papers to Vancouver to check out the deportation, and in doing that the report came back that this fellow had paid the head tax in Canada, and I knew then that his father being in the United States, that that was for the purpose of his surreptitiously entering the United States, and I always believed he had; but where he was I never knew until now. Mr. BUSIEK. And if you knew, as a matter of fact, that this boy now in Marblehead, Mass., or if your investigations should convince you of that and you further found out that he comes down and visits his uncle every other week or so of a Saturday night, what action would you take in regard to the interpreter? Mr. McCABE. Well, I would report it to Washington. That is all the action I would take. Mr. BUSIEK. What action would they be apt to take? Mr. McCABE. Well, I don't know what action they would take, but I know I would still say-of course if he knew about it and it was not any relation of his I would almost believe in recommending his dismissal. But still the next fellow I get would not be-I believe would not be any better than this fellow, and I am afraid might not be as good. Mr. BUSIEK. Then the situation is this, that here is your own interpreter who actively connives at violation of law, and yet you would hesitate to turn him loose for fear of getting something worse? Mr. McCABE. Yes; that is about the size of it. Commissioner LENNON. Well, let me ask you one question. Would it be possible for the Government to get Americans who can speak Chinese in sufficient numbers for interpreters? Mr. MCCABE. I don't think it is possible, for the simple reason that the Government does not want to pay the money. Commissioner LENNON. If they would pay, they could be had, possibly? Mr. MCCABE. Why, yes; they could take and send some boys-start to-day, and have them 15 or 16 years old, or even 18 or 19, and let them go to China and pay them a salary enough while they were learning the language; but then you must remember that even if they talk Chinese they could not bring in information. Commissioner LENNON. That is, they could not mix with the people? Mr. MCCABE, No. Commissioner LENNON. I have a cousin in San Francisco that talks Chinese with anybody. He is a tea buyer. He goes to China a couple of times a year and has for 30 years, probably. I did not know but what there were plenty of such men. Mr. MCCABE. I don't believe there are. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, these Chinese societies known as Highbinder societies, do they flourish here in Boston? Mr. MCCABE. Well, they did-they were-I understand. The best history I get about that is there was a society formed called the Hep Sing Tong, and as I understand it-I haven't any personal knowledge of it-they were instituted for the purpose of levying blackmail on the stores that had gambling; and the result was that the stores, or those that had gambling, formed a society supposed to be composed of the management of the different stores, called the Oleong Ting, and that was to combat the influence of the Hep Sing Tong. Mr. BUSIEK. How is smuggling now carried on, if at all? Mr. MCCABE. Well, by automobile. That is, across the Canadian-United States border-and by launch and by boat, being stowaways-one or two at a time. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you ever tried to cast an estimate in your own mind as to just about how many Chinese get in? Mr. MCCABE. Well, I understand Mr. BUSIEK (interrupting). Of course we know it is a guess, but your sources of information Mr. MCCABE (interrupting). Well, in Canada there were 6,000 Chinese-I don't know whether it was last year or the present fiscal year-paid $3,000,000 head tax, and they made some census at one particular time, say, the beginning of the year; and then they made it later, and none of those 6,000 were there. In other words, the Chinese population had not increased any in the year, although according to the head tax it ought to be increased about 6,000. Now, where did they go? Mr. BUSIEK. The reasonable presumption is that those Chinese entered the United States. Mr. MCCABE. I think that you-for instance, assume that we have a commissioner of immigration in Montreal. He must know now-for instance, our Chinatown, if when we go down there on official business, we see the same faces all the time, they are the workers, and have something to do, and while we might not know them we know they are helping in the store, because I go into the store four or five times a month, and I know the regular ones in there, and the others I don't consider I have any knowledge of them being connected with it because they do not appear to be connected with it. So, likewise, in Montreal, Canada, our officials must have some knowledge of great numbers 38819-S. Doc. 415, 64-1-vol 7———6 loafing around; and therefore if there are great numbers loafing around in Montreal, they are loafing around for no other reason than for having arrangements made to get across. And so, likewise, in Toronto and all the other quarters. Mr. BUSIEK. In Mexico no head tax is required? Mr. MCCABE, NO. Mr. BUSIEK. And neither is any required in the West Indies? Mr. MCCABE. Nor Jamaica. Mr. BUSIEK. Well, Jamaica is classed as the West Indies. Mr. MCCABE. West Indies; yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. And there are constant arrivals in these various places seeking an opportunity to get into the United States. Mr. MCCABE. Must be, because it don't seem as though there was a livelihood for them there. Mr. BUSIEK. And it would not take a very artful man, where the number of patrols is scattered so as to extend over 20 miles between, to smuggle Chinese across? Mr. MCCABE. No; and I don't think it would take much either to take a schooner and go down to Jamaica and put them on and put them off along the southern coast. Mr. BUSIEK. And the entire Atlantic seaboard is full of bays and inlets where they can land? Mr. MCCABE. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. And while having no official knowledge of entry that way, is it not your judgment that thousands do get into the country through these various means that we have been discussing? Mr. MCCABE. Well, I would not know how many thousands to put it; but knowing there is what we call retail and wholesale smuggling. The retail will probably be two at a time, and the wholesale 40 or 70 in a schooner and bring them in. And knowing that it has been done both ways in the past, I assume it is being done to-day. Commissioner LENNON. What amount have you ever heard of smugglers receiving for bringing in Chinamen per head? Mr. MCCABE. I have heard that the average price to get a man across the Canadian border, if they have a pretty easy method, is $125. That is for one We don't know what somebody else gets. I imagine that the cheapest price would be about $300, and they are willing to pay more than that to be absolutely certain of getting in. man. Commissioner LENNON. Well, these that were captured that time down here at Providence from that boat Mr. MCCABE. Yes. Commissioner LENNON. Was there ever any record as to the amount that was paid for each of those? Mr. MCCABE. Well, I heard it was $400 apiece. Commissioner LENNON. And that, of course, went to the owner of the vessel or somebody back of him? Mr. MCCABE. Well, I don't know as it was ever paid. I heard another rumor that the attorney that defended them got it all; but I don't know even at that whether it was paid, because they were not safely brought in. Mr. BUSIEK. Then, if the commission has had the price quoted to it at $750, it has been too high and above the market rate; is that right? Mr. MCCABE. Well, I would say-for instance, this surreptitious entry-but entry with inspection, I would not consider it too high at all for anyone to guarantee we will furnish the witnesses, etc. In fact, I have heard lots of rumors that the attorney in a case has got as high as $1,000. Mr. BUSIEK. Mr. McCabe, I want you to understand now that these hearings are secret, and for that purpose we have held them in executive session. Would you give us the names of some of the attorneys whom you suspect are engaged in actively aiding and abetting smuggling, and not only attorneys but other persons whom you have reason to suspect? Mr. MCCABE. Well, aiding and abetting smuggling-for instance, I believe that any attorney is not aiding and abetting smuggling. I think, for instance, like all lawyers, a man might come in to have him take a case, and he might in his own mind believe the man has not a moral right to be here, but by some hocuspocus of the law he could defend him, he will Commissioner O'CONNELL (interrupting). Is there any particular lawyer or lawyers here making a specialty of that? Mr. McCABE. I don't know that they make a specialty, but they go to certain lawyers. They go to certain lawyers for the simple reason that the lawyers themselves, I have no doubt, say, "I stand well in Washington, and I know McCabe; and I know So-and-so,” and in that way they get cases; and they are also astute and conversant with the ins and outs of the Chinese-exclusion law, and therefore one lawyer will get more cases Mr. BUSIEK. There is not much law on Chinese exclusion? Mr. MCCABE. No; not much law; but almost all the cases are decided on questions of fact. Mr. BUSIEK. That is to say, the man who is successful in those cases has got to inspire perjury, or win his cases on the benefit of perjury? Mr. MCCABE. Yes, sir. Mr. BUSIEK. Now, being a lawyer myself, I think you have got most lawyers wrong. I don't believe most lawyers would do that-would avail themselves of downright perjury if they knew it. Mr. MCCABE. Oh, I don't say that any lawyer, even in Chinese cases, is putting over downright perjury; but, for instance, we will assume that an attorney has a case where the boy is applying for admission as the son of an alleged native. Now, the father has been home to China three years ago, and he returns ahead of the boy a couple of years, and he said while at home on that visit he had an infant son born; and along comes this 12-year-old, or 15 or 16 year old, son and attempts to get in, and the attorney takes that case and argues to win it. Mr. BUSIEK. What lawyers in Boston have the most of that business? Mr. MCCABE. Joseph F. O'Connell. Mr. BUSIEK. And as a matter of fact you have heard it stated, have you not, that he plays up his political influence in Washington? Mr. MCCABE. Well, I don't know-yes; I have heard it. Mr. BUSIEK. Have you ever seen anything that would indicate to you that he did have influence at Washington in Chinese cases? Mr. MCCABE. No more than anyone. Mr. BUSIEK. You frequently have reversals-are overruled by the bureau at Washington--after deciding to exclude Mr. MCCABE (interrupting). Well, of course, we haven't any Chinese applying for admission at Boston; but knowing the cases that we investigate for other ports are reversed and sustained Mr. BUSIEK (interrupting). Who is it at Washington that reviews your findings-what man? Mr. MCCABE. Mr. Parker and Mr. Peters; but they invariably support the inspector. When they go against him, the inspector hasn't any real feeling in the case. For instance, there are lots of times an inspector in the field would feel that a man ought to be admitted, but to keep his skirts clean he denies him and lets somebody else pass on it. Mr. BUSIEK. Does Larned pass on any of the cases on any of these appeals? Mr. MCCABE. Of course, all the mail signed either by the Commissioner General or the Acting Commissioner General who would possibly be Larned. Mr. BUSIEK. I believe that is all the questions I wish to ask Mr. McCabe. Oh, I would like to get you to state what percentage of Chinese who have established their right to be in this country bring their wives or children? Mr. MCCABE. Well, a very small per cent; but it is only within the past two or three years that they have understood that they had a right-you mean the natives? Mr. BUSIEK. Yes. Mr. MCCABE. It is only within the past two or three years that the natives learned that they had the right to bring them in; and they were bringing in their sons right fast, but the bureau finally put a stop to it by having them prove their nativity, in a technical sense res adjudicata, and that has kind of stopped them. Mr. BUSIEK. Well, any Chinese merchant has the right to bring children over here, hasn't he? Mr. MCCABE. Yes; his minor children. Mr. BUSIEK. Does not pretty nearly every Chinese merchant have minor children? Isn't that practice growing Mr. MCCABE (interrupting). Well, yes. Oh, there is Mr. BUSIEK (interrupting). It is true, is it not, in the department, that they find that one of the prime frauds |