loaded. Either the steamer has to be held up entirely for awhile, which is very expensive, or else business can not be done.

We feel that if the Interstate Commerce Commission had the authority to investigate into those conditions at Philadelphia, as well as at any other place-but I am particularly interested in Philadelphia-I say if the Interstate Commerce Commission would have the authority to investigate into these conditions, we feel they would instruct the Philadelphia & Reading Railroad Co. to build a fireproof elevator of such capacity as we need. We feel we ought to have at least from a three to four million bushel capacity elevator there. The Pennsylvania Railroad capacity should be increased to the same so that we would have adequate facilities for accumulating enough grain to accommodate the steamers to make the necessary shipments. The CHAIRMAN. Can both of these elevators, which you have mentioned, be reached from all the railroads which run in to Philadelphia?

Mr. CLEMMER. The Pennsylvania elevator can be reached by the Pennsylvania Railroad only, and the Reading only by the Reading. The CHAIRMAN. Are the tracks not so connected so that they can be reached?

Mr. CLEMMER. No, sir; they are about 7 miles apart, those elevators. The CHAIRMAN. In a place like Philadelphia it would seem to me probable that there were tracks that would connect them in some

way.

Mr. CLEMMER. Outside of Philadelphia and before you get to Philadelphia, where they converge, of course, it could be.

The CHAIRMAN. They are so located that the commission-that is, assuming it has the power to do it-could order grain reaching Philadelphia on the Pennsylvania to be unloaded at the elevator of the Reading, could it not?

Mr. CLEMMER. They could; yes. Before they reach the elevator they could have an order for the run, but with the inadequate facilities on the Reading at present it would not be possible to ship there, because, as I said, the insurance is prohibitive. The insurance rate, for instance, on the Philadelphia & Reading the port Richmond elevator is approximately, as near as I can recall, $2.65 a hundred per annum, whereas the insurance rate at the Girard Point elevator, on the Pennsylvania, which is a fireproof elevator built recently, is 271⁄2 cents a hundred per annum.

Senator KELLOGG. It is a concrete elevator, I suppose?

Mr. CLEMMER. Yes, sir; it is a concrete elevator.

Senator POMERENE. What is the probable cost of an elevator that would accommodate 3,000,000 bushels of grain?

Mr. CLEMMER. Well, Senator, I am not in that business

Senator POMERENE (interposing). I thought you might have some general information on the subject.

Senator KELLOGG. If it was a pure storage house it would not be near as much as it would if it were a storage and cleaning house. I should say that a pure storage house could be built for-how many bushels did you say?

Senator POMERENE. I said 3,000,000 bushels.

Senator KELLOGG. Three million bushels-it probably could be built for $750,000.

Mr. MAGNUS JOHNSON. You could not do that now. It would be about a dollar a bushel.

Mr. CLEMMER. Of course, you understand it is necessary to have cleaning facilities?

Senator KELLOGG. Is it at the seaboard; I would like to know that? Mr. CLEMMER. Yes, sir; Philadelphia, of course, is located on the Delaware River. The depth of the river is such as to enable it to accommodate the largest ovean-going vessel.

Senator KELLOGG. Philadelphia would be what I might call a primary market for winter wheat in that country-that is, a cleaningelevator market, where the grain would be cleaned.

Mr. CLEMMER. It has to be treated; it has to be cleaned, surely. Senator KELLOGG. The grain that comes to our market and shipped East has already been cleaned.

Mr. CLEMMER. It has been already cleaned, and yet it needs more cleaning at times. You have to have elevator-cleaning facilities; if you do not, with respect to the grain that comes even from the West sometimes if you have no cleaning facilities, you would be in trouble. It is absolutely necessary to have cleaning facilities in those elevators.

Senator KELLOGG. It would cost more than I have suggested anyhow, now?

Mr. CLEMMER. Especially in those States, I should say it would

cost more.

Senator KELLOGG. It would cost over a million dollars.

Mr. CLEMMER. We have pleaded with the Philadelphia & Reading people for many years for a new elevator, realizing the necessity for larger facilities and more up-to-date facilities.

Mr. JACOBSON. That elevator is at Port Richmond, is it not?

Mr. CLEMMER. It is at Port Richmond. The Philadelphia & Reading elevator is the Port Richmond elevator: yes, sir.

As I said, the reason we have pleaded for these facilities at Port Richmond, on the Philadelphia & Reading, in the first place is because we need the increased facilities, and in the second place, because we need better facilities or improved facilities, making it safe to store the grain and at the same time, also, for handling it more adequately. The later elevators have machinery which expedites the handling of grain, and therefore, in that respect, is quite an advantage. We urge upon you Senators the enactment of this bill to provide authority to the commission to investigate into these elevator facilities, and authorize the commission to instruct the building of elevators, provided that authority is not already given in the railroad bill, of course.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, it has full authority to investigate.
Mr. CLEMMER. To investigate, but not to build, probably.

The CHAIRMAN. The only question, it seems to me, to be at all in doubt is whether the commission has authority to order the construction of elevators?

Mr. CLEMMER. That is the important feature about it, it seems

to me.

The CHAIRMAN. If I were a commissioner, I would have no hesitation in assuming that authority, but I do not know how they feel about it.

Mr. JACOBSON. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Stites, one of the directors of the exchange in Philadelphia, would like to be heard.

The CHAIRMAN. We will be glad to hear him.

STATEMENT OF MR. W. B. STITES, MERCHANTS' EXCHANGE, PHILADELPHIA.

Mr. STITES. Mr. Chairman, I just want to indorse what Mr. Clemmer has said and also to point out, aside from car shortage—a proposition that comes next to the people--the fact that if the railroad bill does not give the exact authority to the Interstate Commerce Commission to enforce the construction of these elevators, and I think everybody is fully aware they are needed. We should have some place, such as the Interstate Commerce Commission, to go to and present the matter, so they could force the railroads to build these elevators.

We have been after the railroads in Philadelphia for years, and of course the Philadelphia & Reading particularly does not want to build a new elevator. It is an added expense, and as long as they can get along with the old one and make money out of it they want to do it, but it is not fair to the merchants to have to put up with such conditions as we have. I think that the necessity of having this power in the hands of the Interstate Commerce Commission is very apparent at this time, especially in Philadelphia. At present the only appeal we have is directly to the railroads, and we have not had much success in getting any relief from them.

I thank you, Mr. Chairman.

STATEMENT OF MR. H. N. OWEN, PUBLISHER OF FARM, STOCK, AND HOME, MINNEAPOLIS, MINN.

Mr. OWEN. Mr. Chairman, with respect to the matter of the cost of an elevator-of course this is just approximate-I am informed that the Equity Elevator, built in St. Paul four years ago, a 500,000bushel house, cost $200,000. That would be 40 cents a bushel. Well, it would be a conservative estimate to say it would cost about 75 cents a bushel now, which would make a 3,000,000-bushel house cost two and a quarter million dollars.

Senator KELLOGG. That is the St. Paul cleaning house, is it?
Mr. OWEN. Yes, sir.

Senator KELLOGG. That is very much more expensive than a mere storage house.

Mr. OWEN. I think you would find that you would have to have cleaning facilities here. Of course, these figures are very approximate. They may vary up and down materially, but it gives some kind of an idea of it.

Mr. KENNING. The increase of capacity would not cost as much as the original.

Mr. OWEN. No; but if you consider the material, etc., it would vary greatly.

Senator POMERENE. What organization do you represent?

Mr. KENNING. I represent the Farmers' National Grain Dealers' Association, comprising at present 12 of the Western States.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you give us your idea about this matter.
Mr. KENNING. I shall be glad to.

STATEMENT OF MR. CHARLES KENNING, FARMERS' NATIONAL GRAIN DEALERS' ASSOCIATION.

Mr. KENNING. Mr. Chairman, this matter of car shortage has been a very serious matter with the shippers in the West. At a hearing here before the Railroad Administration last summer, we were informed that they had ample cars, new and rebuilt, to handle the largest crops the West could ever produce. That was on the 22d of July.

Senator POMERENE. What year?

Mr. KENNING. This past year. As soon as our crops came in there was complaint of car shortage immediately, and I finally took the matter up with the Railroad Administration, and in the fore part of December, and up to the time I had left home, we had practically gotten no relief. In investigating the matter I found the principal cause of it was-although as they said they had ample new and rebuilt cars to supply us-that all the good cars were used in the East somewhere for storage or other purposes, and all we got was poor stuff that we could not practically use. I had a survey made of the cars coming into Minneapolis for a period of two months only, passing by two inspectors, and there were some 1,400 bad-order cars that were loaded with grain that were absolutely unfit to transport any farther. Out of those fourteen hundred and some, there were only 340 cars belonging to the roads operating in the State of Minnesota, showing conclusively, that all our good cars had been taken out of the State and used elsewhere.

I took the matter up with the Interstate Commerce Commission and also with the Railroad Administration several times during that time, and, as I say, we got no relief. Had we had a crop as we should have had, I do not know what the result would have been. There would have been a large amount of grain that would have been put in storage. Our local elevators were at all times filled to the top, even in February. This not only increased the expense of handling, but made it impossible for the farmers to market their grain at the season of the year when most of the marketing is done, and it was a hardship to compel us to pay the large amount of interest because our elevators were always filled-and it made it impossible for us really to give the farmers what belonged to them, or the producers what belonged to them, because we were unable to see just where that grain would go when it got into the market, especially under the present system.

So that all around, it was a serious matter for us. We felt it more the past year than at other times, because of other conditions. We find, in talking at our convention of the national organization at Chicago this week, we had serious bad weather in Nebraska and those States, and had we had large crops a large amount of the grain would have spoiled because of not having granary or storage room. Senator POMERENE. That is the fault of the farmers out there and not of the elevators or railroads?

Mr. KENNING. Not having that-

Senator POMERENE (interposing). You say they did not thrash because they could not get the storage facilities?

Mr. KENNING. That is very true, but it is almost impossible for a local elevator to furnish storage capacity enough for the surrounding country.

Senator POMERENE. Very few of those farmers have granary or storage facilities on the farms?

Mr. KENNING. A certain amount, but not sufficient to store all the grain.

Senator POMERENE. When you are talking of car shortage, do you mean with reference to the grain trade or coal cars or all other cars? Mr. KENNING. Mostly grain and coal--in fact, both. Senator POMERENE. Up to what period did that obtain?

Mr. KENNING. We were still in trouble when I left home last week. Senator POMERENE. I ask that question particularly because the coal situation came up in the Senate the other day, and I have been investigating this subject somewhat, and I introduced into the record a telegram from the Youngstown (Ohio) Chamber of Commerce in which it is said:

Coal shorage has curtailed industrial production in this territory at least 50 per cent.

In the latter part of the telegram it says:

Understand western and southern railroads have from 120 to 250 per cent supply of this class of equipment, while lines in coal-producing territory are ranging from 20 to 60 per cent supply of coal cars owned by them.

There is a general car shortage; there is no doubt about that. But your statement surprises me. I did not know there was such a great shortage in the West, with the indication that there was a larger percentage of cars here in the East, having in mind this telegram from the Youngstown Iron & Steel people.

Mr. KENNING. When I left home last Saturday, at our elevator there we were completely out of coal-hard and soft, both-although we had a number of orders in that had been put in early last fall. Nevertheless we were still unable to get the coal. It has been that way practically all winter. We have not had a shipment in there for a month at a time.

Senator POMERENE. What is your State?

Mr. KENNING. Minnesota.

The CHAIRMAN. It has been perfectly well established, so there is no doubt about it, that we are more than 100,000 cars short of the number that is reasonably required to do the business of this country, and, of course, those cars can not be supplied in a moment, but it is hoped we will begin to supply that shortage during the coming year.

Senator POMERENE. It is a deplorable situation.

The CHAIRMAN. It is a deplorable situation, but there is no way of remedying it. Its effect can be mitigated somewhat by a proper use of the cars, of course.

Mr. JACOBSON. The Great Northern and the Soo Line are working hard now to get their own cars back on their lines.