THE PRESIDENT-Will Mr. Chollar tell us what is the best method?

MR. CHOLLAR-I can not say what is the best, although I have tried several. Sometimes I have carried it right over the roadway in a box, which is a very accessible way. Expansion jointsespecially if it is an iron bridge-make it all the more satisfactory. Another way is to hang the pipe in a sling under the roadway. In the case of a canal bridge—I had one case where I took advantage of the time when they drew all the water off that level, to go down under the canal with the pipe and come up on the other side. I would say that the best way to do it is the best way under the conditions existing.

MR. ODIORNE-I think Mr. Morgans can give us some information from his experience, as he has to cross a river five times on five bridges.

MR. MORGANS-All I can say is that about four years ago I bought some 6-inch fiber pipe for one of our bridges on the main street with which I had had a great deal of trouble in previous winters. The pipe was placed on the planking and unprotected. On all the other bridges the pipes are either packed in asbestos or in a box with straw, but this particular pipe was 56 feet long and we gave it special care, on account of its being on the main street. Since placing the fiber pipe there I have had no trouble whatever with frost, and upon recent examination I found it in just as good condition as when first laid, while every other pipe in our city. has had frost in it. After a little further experience I intend to replace them all with fiber pipe.

MR. J. T. LYNN-We have never put any protection on pipe laid across bridges, except to have the pipe laid on the roadway of the bridge, with blocks under it from 6 to 8 inches high, so that we can get af it at all times and keep it painted. That preserves the pipe as well, if not better, than putting a covering on it. Any covering which you may put on will gather more or less moisture, and will cause the pipe to rust. We have had no trouble from the freezing of pipes. We used wrought iron pipe over all the bridges. This was a large pipe with expansion joints. The bridges average about 200 feet in length.

THE PRESIDENT-Have you ever tried paper fiber covering for pipes?

MR. J. T. LYNN-I only tried covering once. The result of the experiment was that both the covering and the pipe had rotted. The moisture had gotten in there and simply rusted the pipe through.

MR. J. R. LYNN-Any kind of covering that would take up moisture would only hasten the gathering of frost inside of the pipe in cold weather.

MR. G. T. MURDOCK—I have one piece of 4-inch pipe which has been exposed on a bridge for six years, and have never had any trouble from frost with it.

THE PRESIDENT-What are your approaches to and from the bridge?

MR. G. T. MURDOCK-We use 42-inch wrought iron pipe, with expansion joints.

MR. WHIPPLE-I have one 8-inch pipe, 900 feet long, and find that if we keep the elbow free there is no trouble. In another 6-inch pipe, 1,500 feet long, we never have frost except in the bend. I think the secret is in keeping the pipe straight, and increasing it slightly as it comes from the ground in the direction in which the gas is flowing. We have an 14-inch pipe that never freezes except at the elbow just as it comes out of the ground.

MR. ODIORNE-Is it not the fact that the amount of gas passing through these pipes largely determines the amount of frost accumulating? If the pipe does not pass much gas it will not accumulate much frost.

MR. WHIPPLE-One-half of my gas goes through the 8-inch pipe.

MR. J. T. LYNN-In passing the pipe up over bridges I have always made it a practice not to use any cast mains at all. I use wrought iron pipe, making the bend very gradual. If you can arrange it so as to leave that part of the pipe covered with loose dirt, the tendency to freeze is much less than if you pack it with any hard substance.

MR. C. H. DUNBAR-I think the whole secret of success lies in doing away with the fittings and the angles. I have one 6-inch pipe, 3,000 feet long, and never had any trouble after eliminating the fittings and the angles.

MR. GEO. MCMILLAN-It seems to me that the ratio capacity has very much to do with the effect of frost on pipe. I remember a 4-inch pipe running across a bridge 375 feet long that bothered us by its freezing continually. We finally put in an 8-inch pipe, without changing the fittings at all, except to increase the size, and since that change was made, and during the years I have been familiar with it, we have not been bothered with frost.

3. "What experience has been had as to the desirability and efficiency of underground district governors?"

THE SECRETARY-The answer to this question was assigned to Mr. John. Young, of Allegheny, Pa. He is unable to be present, but writes as follows:

"My experience with underground governors has been confined to natural gas. They were put in by an opposition company, which we ultimately bought out. They had a great deal of trouble with them. They were continually getting out of order. Two men were suffocated while repairing one of them, and the large cavity in the street was a constant source of danger from explosion in case of leakage. I had them all taken out and put above ground. In the case of illuminating gas, and under proper conditions, they may be all right, but personally I would prefer to have the governors above ground where they can be easily got at, and where the risk of doing damage if anything goes wrong is reduced to a minimum."

MR. J. T. LYNN-Rather than put the governors underground we prefer to put them with the meters. The man who attends to the governors attends to the meters. We had a great many wet meters in Allegheny, and had to have a great many men going over the district every month keeping the water line correct on the meters. The same man attends to the street governors. We never put any underground, preferring to keep them where we could get at them in case they needed repair.

4. "What is the best method of decarbonizing retorts?"

MR. ODIORNE-My experience in decarbonizing retorts has been somewhat varied. I have used various appliances, among which were the steam blower and the old-fashioned method of chiseling. The former method is the best in my opinion. Retorts should be decarbonized frequently, and should not be allowed to run from over four to six weeks. The steam blower performs its work readily and without injury to the retorts.

5. "What should be the minimum monthly bill rendered a consumer by a gas company.

MR. J. T. LYNN-The best answer to that would be the statement of the consumer's meter.

THE PRESIDENT-We would like to hear Mr. Cowdery's statement of his custom or plan in the matter under consideration. MR. COWDERY-We have no custom in that respect. We accept the bills as they come to us. A woman, with tears in her eyes, made to me a good deal of complaint over the size of her gas bill. She said she did not know how she was ever going to pay it. Wondering how I was going to help her out, I looked at the

bill and saw that it was for 20 cents. I am sure I would not know where to set the minimum.

MR. WALKER-I presume that question was asked by a manager who has had experience similar to mine. A number of our customers have combination fixtures, and practically use the electric light, retaining the gas for emergencies. In all such cases we make it a rule to charge the customer for 100 feet. Of course it is some annoyance to the gas company, but we like to have them retain the meter for emergencies.

MR. JENKINS-I think the answer depends much upon the average cost of installation. I think a fixed service charge for a meter is practically an insult. I think, perhaps, an average cost for meter and service would be about $20. Six per cent. interest on that would be $1.20; 5 per cent. depreciation, $1; repairs on meter, 80 cents, or an aggregate of $3. I do not think the charge ought to be less than $3 per year, which is without regard to the quantity of gas used. In some companies, if the amount of gas used by a consumer is less than 100 feet in any one month, they do not render a bill for that amount, but let it accumulate, finally making out a bill covering several months for the gas consumed during those months--for the months between they charge so much per month for use of services and meter-and I think you can figure that pretty closely at $3 per year.

MR. T. D. MILLER-As to accommodation meters, it is our rule to charge 25 cents per month for each showing no consumption; anything over a 5-light meter is 5 cents per light; a 10-light meter is 50 cents, and a 100-light meter is $5 per month. When the consumption is not equal to that rental we collect both the rental and the gas bill.

MR. WHIPPLE-I was the author of that question, but I asked it in a little different form. What I asked was as to the advisability of sending a minimum bill. I have talked with quite a number of gas engineers about it, some of whom thought it advisable to render a minimum bill, while others did not. I render a minimum bill up to 300 feet.

MR. CHOLLAR-Mr. Cowdery shut off my answer. It struck me that an easy answer to the question was that the minimum monthly bill rendered would be the quantity the meter registered.

MR. GEO. MCMILLAN--Perhaps it is a trifle hard to know always what is best, but our practice has been to charge 25 cents per month as the minimum. If the customer burned only 100 feet it would be worth 15 cents; but we send a bill for 25 cents, and never present a bill for less than 25 cents. If the consumer burns 300 feet, the bill sent is for 30 cents. We make

no charge for the meter except in the event that it does not register the use of 25 cents' worth of gas. Many objected to that at first, but became reconciled to it when we explained our reason for it by saying that otherwise, although we had set the meter, we would get nothing out of it. Now they do not object to it, and the plan works very well.

MR. J. H. FARRELL-Our practice at Wausau, Wis., has been to send a minimum bill of 20 cents, and we find that it works very well.

The President introduced Mr. F. B. Wheeler, of Binghamton, N. Y., who told of

PROBLEMS IN NEW BUSINESS: SOME HISTORY AND EXPERIMENT.

The experience of all progressive gas managers is that the most liberal policy of free services, free connections, free distribution of good burners to consumers is the one that pays the best. When to this is added house piping done by the gas company, upon various plans of introduction, from cost charges to absolute free gift, and tasteful gas fixtures at a minimum margin for handling and installing, the old-time bars between the company and the wageearning public are swept away for ever, and, with a reasonable price for gas, our commodity, the demand for which is ever on the increase, the way is paved with golden stairs for its easy introduction into all homes.

The greatest lever a gas company can lay hold of in the upbuilding of bulwarks against the socialistic and municipal ownership ideas is the one of local "popularity." This powerful lever --"popularity"-is the one we should seek, grasp and sedulously cultivate. What can popularize the gas company more than to introduce gas into the homes of the "masses" of tenants and wageearners who are voters? These constitute the bulk of the population. Should not this great majority be reached, catered to, its wants studied, a percentage of its hard-won wage saved for us, and used for the comfort and enlightenment of its homes thereby?

The enormous gains in sales shown by English gas corporations have been won by reaching for the homes and the pockets of the wage-earning masses, with inducement and prices available to all.

This was recognized by a few apostles of cheap gas some time ago, but it is only just now that the body of gas managers are recognizing it here. The majority can and will save nickels, dimes and quarters to make up a dollar a month for the great comforts and conveniences gas will bring to their homes, usually rented,