PRINTING AND BINDING.

The printing fund for the current year is $800,000. The Budget recommended $700,000. The House committee reported $760,000. In other words, they restored $60,000 of the $100,000 which had been cut. I may say, with reference to the printing fund, that heretofore it has been possible in the Department of Agriculture to use certain appropriations known as field-service appropriations. Take the appropriation for tick eradication, for instance.

Senator JONES of Washington. Let me ask, first, did the department come to the House and urge this increase over the Budget?

Mr. JUMP. No, sir. The department did not and does not urge any increases over the Budget. It is not permitted for us to do that. We can not go above what is recommended in the Budget as transmitted by the President. The House committee did this of its own accord.

As I say, in the past we have been permitted to use certain appropriations of the department for what we call repay work. In other words, we could under certain circumstances have a job of printing done by the Public Printer, and if it pertained to a field servicelike tick eradication, for instance-we could then reimburse the printing fund from the tick-eradication fund.

That has been running around $35,000 a year; but this year, by a general order of the Director of the Budget, all of the departments reworded their printing items so as to do away with this repay work and include all the printing in one item, so far as possible. That is the reason the word "all" has been inserted in this language-it is underscored as new language in your committee print, and other new language has been put in-so that this change in itself really effected a decrease of $35,000 in the printing fund, or rather that the printing fund would have to carry an additional burden of $35,000 paid from other appropriations heretofore.

Senator JONES of Washington. In other words, under the provision as it is now, this will be all the money that you will have available for printing?

Mr. JUMP. That is correct, Senator, with two exceptions, which we desire to cover with the amendment we are going to propose. In this bill, as in the previous acts, you authorize the Weather Bureau to conduct its printing plant in the city of Washington. The Joint Committee on Printing has gone over that carefully and approved it. They print the rush weather material there, and then at the weather stations out over the country they have to do their own printing in order to get the Weather Bureau forecasts out immediately. Then the Forest Service has a small field printing plant at Ogden, Utah, which is approved by the Joint Committee on Printing, and is absolutely necessary.

Senator JONES of Washington. This will cover all the printing except where it is otherwise specifically provided for?

Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Senator JONES of Washington. So that we will know, by looking at the items in the bill, what will be used for printing?

Mr. JUMP. That is correct.

Senator MCNARY. Is that a sufficient sum to carry on the work efficiently?

Mr. JUMP. The current appropriation is $800,000; the House bill carries $760,000; the Budget estimate was $700,000. In view of this situation, I think the department would have to say, in response to your question, that we would do our very best to get along on the amount provided.

Senator LENROOT. Are you using the whole $835,000 this year? Mr. JUMP. We think we will, but the matter of carry over always has to be considered in connection with these printing appropriations. Last year there was a very heavy carry over; that is, there was a big unexpended balance turned back to the Treasury, amounting to about $160,000 or $180,000, I believe; but on the other hand, we had unfinished work at the Printing Office that practically amounted to the same sum that the Public Printer was not able to complete before the end of the fiscal year, so that there was a large carry over to be charged on to this year. I believe this is a more or less regular procedure, but with this explanation the substantial answer to your question would be that we are using the full amount of the printing fund. You see, a large sum goes for the Farmers' Bulletins, fourfifths of which under the law are available for distribution by Members of Congress.

If there are no other questions, I would like to offer the amendment to this item. You will notice that the Budget estimate contained the following proviso:

That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to such printing and binding as now is, or may hereafter be, specially authorized by law or by the regulations or decisions of the Joint Committee on Printing, Congress of the United States.

That went out in the House on a point of order. Aside from that, the provision was poorly worded. In the form submitted it seems to nullify the whole provision of the foregoing appropriation. What it was really intended to convey was: "Provided, That this appropriation shall not restrict the printing of the Weather Bureau in Washington at its own plant, and the printing at the field stations of the Weather Bureau, and the printing of emergency work by the Forest Service at Ogden, Utah," where they have to do rush emergency jobs in connection with forest fires, etc. Then the Joint Committee on Printing annually has permitted the department to expend a few thousand dollars for outside printing by commercial concerns. I do not believe it has ever exceeded $5,000 a year, and I think our present limitation is $2,500. For instance, a situation like this will come up: A forest fire will break out somewhere, and the district forester has to have printed immediately some placards cautioning people, calling attention to the special rules that will have to be. observed while the forest fire exists, etc. It is, of course, impossible for him to send to Washington in a case like this, and the Joint Committee on Printing have recognized that a certain number of emergencies will arise in this and other lines of work and has given us that limited authority. Another instance would be where we have to have bound locally Weather Bureau records which could not possibly be sent in to Washington because they are in daily use at the field station in

volved. These are the three things that original proviso was intended

to cover.

Senator MCNARY. Please read that again.

Mr. JUMP. It is in line 14, page 6.

Senator MCNARY. Yes; I know where it is.

Mr. JUMP (reading):

Provided, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to such printing and binding

Senator LENROOT. Read what you want.

Mr. JUMP. I had not read that yet. The new proviso that we suggest is this: " But not including work done at the printing plants of the department."

Senator LENROOT. Just where does that come in?

Mr. JUMP. That comes in to take the place of this other proviso. Senator MCNARY. That would read, then, how?

Mr. JUMP. It would read, then, in this way: Right after the word "direct" we would put in this language-

Senator JONES of Washington. You would cut out the colon?
Mr. JUMP. We would cut out the colon and say:

but not including work done at printing plants of the department authorized by the Joint Committee on Printing, Congress of the United States, in accordance with the act approved March 1, 1919 (40 Stat. 1270), or emergency field printing and binding authorized by the said joint committee.

You see, it seems that we must have some sort of leeway like that to take care of the situation I have explained because of the word "all," which has been inserted by direction of the Budget Committee, I think, in cooperation with the Joint Committee on Printing at the top of this bill.

Senator LENROOT. Just what authority does the statute which you refer to give to the Joint Committee on Printing?

Mr. JUMP. That is the one which contains section 11 of the printing act, which says that all printing must be done at the Government Printing Office except that specifically authorized otherwise by Congress, or by the Joint Committee on Printing.

Senator MCNARY. Then this would permit you, in such cases as you have mentioned, to have printing done at some outside place to meet an emergency condition?

Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir; but that is really just a small part of it, and we could then use this appropriation for that purpose. We could pay these commercial printing concerns up to $2,500 a year out of this appropriation, as authorized by the joint committee because it is not made to the Public Printer, as it used to be; it is made to the department; but that would be controlled by the Joint Committee on Printing. Under the law we can not have any printing done outside of the Government Printing Office unless the joint committee or Congress authorizes it; but this Weather Bureau printing is covered in the Weather Bureau bill here.

You are appropriating $12,000 for that, and then the Weather Bureau has its printing press at each one of the larger forecast stations, and the Forest Service has its small plant at Ogden, Utah, and that language is in order to permit us to continue these necessary plants.

Senator MCNARY. That is simply to operate as a modification of the statute which you mention, permitting the printing to be done outside of the Government Printing Office?

Mr. JUMP. That is correct, but it is not to modify that statute. It is merely to modify the all-inclusive feature of this proposed language in the bill."

Senator LENROOT. Could you not frame this so as to accomplish exactly what you want with reference to the Weather Bureau, so that it would appear on the face of the amendment?

Mr. JUMP. We could, of course, if the committee prefers, mention specifically the Weather Bureau and the Forest Service.

Senator JONES of Washington. Yes; I would rather have it specific. Mr. JUMP. We have no objection to that.

Senator LENROOT. The Weather Bureau and these emergency plants.

Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir; we should be glad to do that.
Senator LENROOT. I think you had better do that.
Senator JONES of Washington. Yes; I think so.

Mr. JUMP. I will do that. I will consult with Mr. Rea, then, and fix up an amendment that will meet those views.

Senator JONES of Washington. Prepare the amendment so that it will speak on its face as to the exceptions that are to be made. Mr. JUMP. All right, sir.

HORSE AND CATTLE BOOKS.

Senator MCNARY. Now, take up the next item, Mr. Jump. Mr. JUMP. While we are on the subject of printing and binding, does the committee desire the department to discuss the amendment which was made on the floor of the House in the Committee of the Whole with regard to reprinting the horse and cattle books? That is not directly in order, but Mr. Pugsley, the Assistant Secretary of Agriculture, is here this morning, and he has direct charge of that part of the work of the department.

Senator MCNARY. What page is it on?

Mr. JUMP. Page 70. That was an amendment made on the floor of the House. It was not included in the committee report.

Senator MCNARY. That is between line 17 and 24, put in on the floor of the House?

Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir. That was put in on the floor of the House. Senator JONES of Washington. Of course you do not know whether it will be finally accepted in the House?

Mr. JUMP. No; it was put in in the Committee of the Whole.

Senator LENROOT. If that is accepted, would it not be necessary to make another exception covering that in the first paragraph? Mr. JUMP. I should think not. It reads:

For printing, binding, and distribution of the publications entitled

And so forth. Even though it is not consistent with the other printing item it is entirely specific.

Senator LENROOT. This is" for all printing and binding for the Department of Agriculture." Is not that part of the printing of the Department of Agriculture?

Mr. JUMP. No, sir; because the department does not get these, you see. They are distributed by Congress.

Senator LENROOT. It is not done by the department?

Mr. JUMP. No, sir. The book was originally gotten up by the department, and has been revised by the department, but it is really a congressional document.

Senator LENROOT. If this is adopted, how would the work be initiated?

Mr. JUMP. All the department would do, as I understand, would be to give the revised pages to the Public Printer, to the printing authorities of the Congress.

Senator MCNARY. As I understand you, the House adopted the following section:

For printing, binding, and distribution of the publications entitled "Diseases of the Horse" and "Diseases of Cattle," $200,000.

Mr. JUMP. The Committee of the Whole House adopted that, according to the record and it is here in the committee print. Senator LENROOT. And the House will, of course.

Senator MCNARY. It went in, at that point, in that form?
Mr. JUMP. Yes, sir; at that point.

Senator MCNARY. It is under "Miscellaneous items." Did the bill last year carry any money for the distribution of these pamphlets? Assistant Secretary PUGSLEY. Senator, perhaps I may make a little statement on that subject.

Senator MCNARY. Certainly.

STATEMENT OF HON. C. W. PUGSLEY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE.

HORSE AND CATTLE BOOKS.

Assistant Secretary PUGSLEY. The Special Report on the Diseases of the Horse was first printed in 1890, and was paid for from funds appropriated to the Department of Agriculture. It was reprinted in 1896; thoroughly revised and reprinted in 1903, and reprinted with slight revisions in 1908, 1911, and 1916. All reprints were paid for from congressional funds, no appropriation for this purpose being made to the department.

The Special Report on the Diseases of Cattle was first printed in 1892 from department funds. It was reprinted in 1896; thoroughly revised and reprinted in 1904, and reprinted with slight revisions in 1908, 1912, and 1916. All reprints were paid for from congressional funds.

Senator HARRIS. Excuse me for interrupting, but more than 20 years ago they were distributing a book something like that- "Diseases of the Horse and Cattle."

Senator LENROOT. I think that was a reprint of one of them. I was here at the time.

Assistant Secretary PUGSLEY. Yes; that was a reprint of a book which was probably first issued in that form in 1903.

Senator LENROOT. That is right.