the traffic offered to them between Montreal and Portland so as to properly serve the public; and

It appearing, That an emergency exists which in the opinion of the Commission, requires immediate action:

Therefore, in order to best promote the service in the interest of the public and the commerce of the people, and to prevent shortage of equipment and congestion of traffic:

It is ordered,

1. That, effective immediately and until further order of the Commission, the Canadian National Railways and Grand Trunk Railway be, and they are hereby, directed to forward traffic routed over their lines between Montreal and Portland by routes most available to expedite its movement and prevent congestion, without regard to the routing thereof made by shippers or by carriers from which the traffic is received, or to the ownership of the cars, and that all rules, regulations, and practices of said carriers with respect to car service are hereby suspended and superseded insofar only as conflicting with the directions hereby made.

2. That inasmuch as such disregard of routing is deemed to be due to carrier's disability, the rates applicable to traffic so forwarded by routes other than those designated by shippers, or by carriers from which the traffic is received, shall be the rates which were applicable at date of shipment over the routes so designated. 3. That inasmuch as the necessity for such disregard of routing arises from circumstances beyond control of carriers, car hire payments covering both railroad and privately owned cars shall be made on the basis of the handling of cars as originally routed.

4. That in executing the directions of the Commission contained in this order the common carriers involved shall proceed without reference to contracts, agreements, or arrangements now existing between them with reference to the divisions of the rates of transportation applicable to said traffic; that such divisions shall be, during the time this order remains in force, voluntarily agreed upon by and between said carriers, and that, upon failure of the carriers to so agree, said divisions shall be hereafter fixed by the Commission in accordance with pertinent authority conferred upon it by the Interstate Commerce Act.

It is further ordered, That copies of this order and direction be served upon the Canadian National Railways and Grand Trunk Railway and upon the Car Service Division, Association of American Railroads, as agent of the raliroads subscribing to the car service and per diem agreement under the terms of that agreement, and that notice of this order be given to the general public by depositing a copy of this order in the office of the Secretary of the Commission at Washington, D. C., and by publication in the Federal Register. By the Commission, Division 3. [SEAL]

W. P. BARTEL, Secretary.

SERVICE ORder No. 78-A

At a Session of the INTERSTATE COMMERCE COMMISSION, Division 3, held at its office in Washington, D. C., on the 20th day of June, A. D. 1942

Good cause appearing therefor:

It is ordered, That Service Order No. 78, made and entered June 15, 1942, be, and the same is hereby, vacated and set aside effective at once.

It is further ordered, That copies of this order be served upon the Canadian National Railways and Grand Trunk Railway and upon the Car Service Division, Association of American Railroads, as agent of the railroads subscribing to the car service and per diem agreement under the terms of that agreement, and that notice of this order be given to the general public by depositing a copy of this order in the office of the Secretary of the Commission at Washington, D. C., and by publication in the Federal Register.

By the Commission, Division 3.

[SEAL]

W. P. BARTEL, Secretary.

Senator REED. We will run a while longer. We would like to hear Mr. Moore.

STATEMENT OF D. V. MOORE, MANAGER, FREIGHT TRAFFIC DIVISION, PITTSBURGH CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, PITTSBURGH, PA.

Mr. MOORE. My name is D. V. Moore. I am manager of the freight traffic division of the Pittsburgh Chamber of Commerce.

The Pittsburgh Chamber of Commerce, organized nearly 70 years ago, represents the commercial and industrial interests of the Pittsburgh district and includes in its membership the majority of the shippers and receivers of carload freight traffic.

While our shippers are in accord with the objective of Senate Joint Resolution 147 in promoting prompt loading and unloading of freight cars, they do not believe the legislative process is the best method of accomplishing it.

Through the cooperation of shippers and the railroads, which has obtained for nearly 20 years, broadened upon the start of the present war in 1939 and greatly expanded since Pearl Harbor, the efforts of the railroads in promoting maximum operating efficiency, the powers over car service of the Interstate Commerce Commission and those of the Office of Defense Transportation, it is our view that the objective of the maximum use of freight-carrying equipment can be realized without recourse to legislative acts.

The Pittsburgh Chamber of Commerce has consistently urged that shippers load cars heavily, load and unload them promptly, and has worked with the Allegheny Regional Advisory Board toward this end. The general chairman, Mr. W. B. Shepherd, who is to appear before your subcommittee, will present specific facts with respect to the results obtained, which will cover the various local car efficiency committees, including those in the several terminal areas of the Pittsburgh district.

The Pittsburgh Chamber has been active in contacting the smaller receivers of carload freight through the secretaries of their trade organizations to secure their help in saving car-days.

A large number of Pittsburgh shippers have accumulated many credits under the average agreement through unloading in less than the free time which they have not used. When circumstances beyond their control result in occasional delays, they should not be penalized.

The Interstate Commerce Commission's Service Bureau recently assigned a field representative to the Pittsburgh district who has been contacting those shippers who have been remiss in unloading and releasing cars promptly.

With the continuance and expansion of these efforts there should be no occasion for legislative action, but if restrictions are found necessary, remedial measures should be taken by the Interstate Commerce Commission's Service Bureau or the O. Ď. T.

Senator REED. As traffic manager of the Pittsburgh Chamber of Commerce I suggest that you come back here in 3 months and see the increased efficiency and how much detention of cars has decreased, and that will be the complete answer.

Mr. MOORE. I shall be glad to do that. Owing to the short notice we had of this hearing there was no opportunity to prepare any detailed facts.

Senator REED. This is going to be a helpful and constructive effort.. We are not trying to impose any hardship on anyone.

Mr. MOORE. I remember the statement you referred to a short while ago, that you hoped this would be the last resort.

Senator REED. Make no mistake about it, it is a last resort. If this objective cannot be accomplished by voluntary action, then the matter will be revived along about next October or November. If there is no improvement shown through voluntary action, then the committee will have to give consideration to legislative action.

Mr. MOORE. Thank you very much.

(The witness withdrew from the committee table.)

We

Senator REED. Is there anyone here from outside of Washington who would like to be heard now? We will run a half-hour yet. cannot meet again this afternoon because we are going to have a number of important matters in the Senate to consider. Is there anybody here from outside of Washington who wants to be heard in the next 20 or 25 minutes?

Mr. HOLLOPETER. I would like to be heard, Senator.

Senator REED. Very well. We will be very glad to hear you at this time.

STATEMENT OF HERSCHEL A. HOLLOPETER, TRAFFIC DIRECTOR OF THE INDIANA STATE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, INDIANAPOLIS, IND.

Mr. HOLLOPETER. I am appearing on behalf of the Indiana State Chamber of Commerce of which I am traffic director. I have had over 30 years of traffic and transportation experience.

Senator REED. You do not have to qualify yourself as far as I am concerned.

Mr. HOLLOPETER. The Indiana State Chamber of Commerce is an Indiana corporation composed of local chambers of commerce, civic and commercial organizations, firms, partnerships, corporations, and individuals, organized for the purpose of promoting and protecting the civic and industrial welfare of its members and of the State of Indiana.

As traffic director, my activities are governed by a traffic committee through the advice and recommendations of a traffic council composed of approximately 150 of the industrial and commercial traffic managers of our manufacturing and commercial membership.

In a recent meeting of this traffic council, Senate Joint Resolution 147 was thoroughly considered and definite recommendations were made in which I was instructed to appear here and present to the committee our views on this measure.

In addition to my own organization, I have also been authorized to speak for the Indianapolis Board of Trade, another Indiana cor-poration, the membership of which is composed of all of the individuals, firms, and corporations engaged in the grain and milling business in the city of Indianapolis. I am also authorized to speak for the Indiana Grain Dealers Association, a voluntary association composed of all the independent country dealers in the State of Indiana. Also the Indiana Farm Bureau, which is a State-wide organization organized under the provisions of the Farm Marketing Act and having a unit located in every county in the State with a

combined membership of 50,000 farmers. Finally, I am also authorized to represent the Indiana Millers' Association, a voluntary association composed of the principal flour millers and grain processors located in the State of Indiana. The position of all of these organizations is the same with respect to this bill.

Senator TUNNELL. That is, they are all opposed to it?

Mr. HOLLOPETER. Well, we are opposed in certain respects; yes, sir. If I may make that clear, we do look with much disfavor upon any transportation rate making by legislation, because of the inflexibility of such procedure. Transportation and the charges therefor are of constantly changing characteristics. That is one of the important reasons that for years we have had the Interstate Commerce Commission set up for handling these matters currently and wholly apart from any sectional or political consideration.

Under our present situation, we have a Commission set up to handle these matters, including matters such as this, in a quasi-judicial way, in which all evidence that is possible is measured in an unbiased manner; and we feel that such legislation as this would simply nullify those powers of the Commission, and would force these unusual rates and charges on the shippers until further changed or canceled by another action of the Congress. We also have at this time, as has been mentioned previously, the Office of Defense Transportation working on just such matters as this. Those agencies are already clothed with statutory power to issue such order or orders as will bring about the same result.

As one illustration I want to call attention to the fact that within the last few months, for the week ending May 9, the effect of O. D. T. Order No. 1 was to release 64,454 freight cars in merchandise service. That was that many less cars than were used to handle merchandise freight last year for the same week, and the volume was somewhat greater.

I simply mention that to point out that there are forces at work which are accomplishing everything that can be hoped to be accomplished in this direction; and I shall elaborate on that a little bit later.

I want to make it clear in the beginning, however, that we are entirely in accord with the stated objective of the measure, that of expediting the loading and unloading of railroad freight cars. Our opposition to the measure begins, however, with the fact that through the various agencies and machinery already set up and in operation everything that is necessary in this direction is being done. We have the entire country covered by regional advisory boards, with which Senator Reed, I am sure, is quite familiar. These boards are created and designed especially for the purpose of expediting the handling of freight cars by the carriers as well as the shippers. This bill would attack only a very small portion of the entire problem and one which is already being taken care of, I think, quite satisfactorily under the existing agencies.

Senator REED. As you know, I hold the long-distance record as chairman of one of those boards.

Mr. HOLLOPETER. I recognize that, sir; it is a very fine record. Through the shippers' regional advisory boards created after the terrible car shortages of the early 1920's, we have been able to avoid serious car-shortage disturbances since that period, including even the peak operation of October 1941, in which the railroads passed

several all-time high marks in service. In times of threatened car shortages, these boards become very active and the shipper who does not cooperate finds himself in a very undesirable position. His neighboring shippers themselves are in a position to, and do, bring much pressure to bear upon him to improve his handling of freight cars and, operating in close conjunction with the Interstate Commerce Commission and the Association of American Railroads, if he persists in being dilatory, embargoes are placed against him which, of course, have the desired effect of bringing him to time.

Fortunately, we have relatively few shippers who require this drastic action. There are some shippers who, because of the nature of the commodity and other conditions beyond their control, are not always in a position to unload all their cars within the 48 hours' free time.

Senator REED. Who is going to judge whether conditions are beyond the control of the shipper? The shipper himself?

Mr. HOLLOPETER. No, Senator. That is, of course, a question that is always debatable. But we must recognize, I think, the fact underlying it, that there are at times certain conditions, such as weather conditions, the handling of the cars by the Government, bunching the cars, and so forth, which create conditions that are beyond the control of the shippers.

Senator REED. For example, at a grain market where they are selling grain for reconsignment, the grain man would pay $2 demurrage for 3 or 4 days and keep his cars. He prefers to pay $2 a day, hoping that he is going to sell his car of grain and reconsign it. He would rather do that, even though he keeps somebody else out of transportation.

Mr. HOLLOPETER. That is very true in normal times; but we do not have normal times today. The cooperation of the shippers has made that shipper hesitate to do the thing he usually did, because every shipper today realizes the need for prompt relief of cars. think you are not finding nearly so many of those situations as you did in normal times.

I

Senator REED. I think unquestionably that is true; but at the same time this improvement has not yet gone to where it must go. That is why we are all working together on this thing.

Mr. HOLLOPETER. I agree with you on that, Senator.

Senator REED. This is only one manifestation of the effort to get this thing done. We would be very happy to let you put your statement in the record. I want to talk to you a little bit about what you can do in Indiana.

Mr. HOLLOPETER. Nearly all of the shippers, through this cooperative effort, are unloading most of their cars in less than the free time allowed, and it is only the occasional car that we find is held beyond 48 hours. It would be such shippers, who are otherwise cooperating at considerable expense to themselves, including employment of help to unload cars on Sundays and holidays at extra pay for such so-called overtime, that would be hurt by the provisions of this measure; and I am sure we do not want to impose such drastic burdens upon them in recompense for their most praiseworthy record of cooperation in all other respects.

In Indiana, while our membership covers the entire State and includes shippers of all kinds of commodities, we have been compiling