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Suppose that this subcommittee would not rely on that? Suppose that this subcommittee takes a look at the Bureau of Mines' amendment and amplifies it a little in this respect, say that they give notice and adequate notice, that so many days' notice had to be given to all interested parties to show cause why the application should be granted or denied and that in case of doubt on the safety aspects after the testimony is in, the court must consider as the primary factor the health and safety of the miners?

You would have this situation then, wherein the coal miners and coal-mine operators would come in and present their testimony to the effect that there is danger to the life and safety of miners. They would get their experts to testify that danger exists and the naturalgas people would produce experts to the effect that there is no danger. After that, if there is any doubt in the mind of the court it would have to give the principal consideration to the safety and health of the miners. Don't you think that this approach might take care of your problem?

Mr. TILLSON. I believe that legislation might be had beforehand. Mr. L'HEUREUX. Do you mean as to health and safety?

Mr. TILLSON. We can reaffirm in this act what the Federal Power Commission believes and what we, too, believe, that the health and safety laws do govern now and we can put that in this bill.

Senator PURTELL. Will you proceed, Mr. Tillson.

Mr. TILLSON. I should like to show that in the present underground ventilator system to handle the normal amount of gases seeping out, those ventilator systems are insufficient if we had an accident like cutting into a well, drilling into a pool. To take care of this gas today we normally dilute that small amount of gas over 200 times with pure fresh air in order to render it harmless. This sudden release of large quantities of gas would definitely set the stage for a major mine disaster.

I could elaborate more on these safety problems. I could also elaborate on our economic situation. However, the hour is getting late.

We are opposed to gas storage under or adjacent to coal-mine properties because it creates a safety hazard for the men who work in our mines.

Secondly, we are opposed to the use of the power of eminent domain. because it would severely cripple our function as an integrated function of specialty steel.

Thirdly, we concur in the testimony of the representatives of the other steel companies and also the various coal operators who oppose the condemnation of property for gas storage.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. How have you generally found the enforcement of safety rules and regulations by the Bureau of Mines? Has it been generally satisfactory?

Mr. TILLSON. We have found it varies in localities and with the individuals involved.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. I mean in the main. Do you feel that the machinery is there if adequately administered?

Mr. TILLSON. We find that most of the State departments of mines are doing the same work now. It is mainly a duplication of effort. Senator SCHOEPPEL. You are stressing the State regulation and administrative control?

Mr. TILLSON. Yes, sir.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. That is all I have.

Senator PURTELL. Are there any questions that you have at this time, Senator Monroney?

Senator MONRONEY. No questions.

Senator PURTELL. Thank you very much, Mr. Tillson.

We will now hear from Mr. Frank B. King, director, Department of Mines, State of West Virginia.

STATEMENT OF FRANK B. KING, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF MINES, STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

Mr. KING. My name is Frank B. King. I am chief of the Department of Mines of the State of West Virginia. As chief of the department of mines, I am responsible for the inspection of coal mines and enforcement of the mining laws of my State. By law I am charged with the duty of supervising the drilling and abandonment of wells for the production of oil or gas within my State. I have under me 73 inspectors who enforce the State laws relating to coal mines, quarries, and oil and gas wells, and who report their findings to me. I appear here in opposition to S. 525.

Coal mining is the leading industry of my State. More people earn their living in the coal mining industry than in any other industry in West Virginia. Our railroads, timber industry and a large industry handling industrial supplies are directly related to and dependent upon the coal-mining industry. Oil and gas production also makes a large contribution to the economic life of my State. We have a number of gas storage pools in the State of West Virginia. In large measure they store gas from States to the west and south of us for transmittal to States to the north and east. I have no quarrel with their purpose. My concern is that storage affects the safety of the men working the mines of my State, that it endangers the present operations and the future coal reserves in my State, and that it endangers the economic life of my State.

I should like to comment on one of the many hazards caused by underground storage of gas. For many years the State of West Virginia has supported a State geological survey of national stature. Our State geologist, Dr. Paul H. Price, is a recognized authority and is employed as a consultant by many companies including oil and gas producers. Dr. Price has told me that he estimates that approximately 80,000 wells have been drilled in the State of West Virginia. He believes that the survey has the most complete records available upon wells in the State. But the survey has records on only 30,000 wells. Thus there are no public records on 50,000 wells. Important and needed information is not available and undoubtedly many wells are completely lost. Laws requiring permits for the plugging and abandoning of wells were not passed until the year 1929. There is a tremendous probability that a storage pool created in the old depleted gas- and oil-producing areas would leak through one of these lost wells before such leakage could be found. I feel that this probability exists even in spite of the provisions of the West Virginia law related to plugging, which provisions I believe are recognized to be the most effective legislation enacted by any State on this subject.

It is my principal duty as chief of the Department of Mines of West Virginia to provide for the safety of persons employed within the mines of the State of West Virginia.

I must protect the miners of my State from all possible types of hazards. These hazards are many and varied, but the history of coal mining will disclose that an explosion is the greatest hazard which confronts a miner. Underground storage of gas under coal measures adjacent to mining operations creates the possibility of an explosion-an explosion which could be a catastrophe and destroy the lives of many men.

More than 30 sections of our coal mining law measures are directly or indirectly concerned with causes of explosion and their eradication. Most of these sections concern gas explosions. Thirteen additional sections specifically regulate natural-gas operations in land underlaid with workable coal beds. In summary, the mining laws of West Virginia recognize that coal and gas operations cannot be carried on in the same area without endangering the lives of the miners.

Consequently I have two general divisions in my department, a coal division and a gas division.

It is the mission of the gas division to see that the many facets of gas operations, including underground storage of gas, do not become instrumentalities which endanger the lives of coal miners. Now, the gas regulations of our State are not oppressive and have been accepted without criticism by the natural-gas industry. In fact, it may well be said that gas production and underground gas storage is virtually unregulated so long as it is not carried on in areas underlain with workable coal beds.

The Legislature of West Virginia has given the gas industry the right of eminent domain for the condemnation of areas for underground gas storage, but has subjected such right to the regulations deemed necessary to protect the lives of citizens from the effect of explosions of gas, and the legislature has created a State department of mines with the means of regulating such storage to safeguard the lives of coal miners working adjacent to such storage areas.

The passage of Senate bill S. 525 will result, in my opinion, in the Federal Government taking over the field of eminent domain for the establishment of underground gas storage pools without providing for the safety of the mines. No longer will West Virginia miners have for their protection the integrated storage and safety aspects of West Virginia law. Approximately a third of our mining laws will become ineffective. Most of the coal in West Virginia can become unminable as I cannot permit men to work in areas where they may meet instant death from explosions resulting from gas stored underground. The death toll could be terriffic. In some West Virginia mines as many as 800 men are working underground at one time. An explosion affecting such an operation could shake the very foundation of our government in West Virginia and would cause nationwide concern. Therefore, I say that the passage of S. 525 will destroy the regulations now in effect which protect the lives of West Virginia coal miners, and should consequently not have the support of your committee.

Senator PURTELL. Thank you very much.
Have you any questions, Senator Schoeppel.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. Were you here when I read the statement made by the representative of the Department of Interior?

Mr. KING. Yes, I was.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. Do you generally concur with it?

Mr. KING. I wouldn't say that I would because I am not too familiar with it.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. He points out that due regard should be given to the lives and health and safety of the men.

Mr. KING. I do not think it will be an easy thing to regulate it at all, due to the fact that we have so many lost wells in West Virginia. We have cut into lost wells and it is a problem that will be awfully hard to take care of.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. Your State authorities have to cope with that same thing, do they not?

Mr. KING. Oh, yes.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman.

Senator PURTELL. Thank you very much, Mr. King.

The next witness will be Mr. Julian D. Conover, executive vicepresident of the American Mining Congress, Washington, D. C.

STATEMENT OF JULIAN D. CONOVER, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, AMERICAN MINING CONGRESS

Mr. CONOVER. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Julian D. Conover, and I am appearing before you today on behalf of the American Mining Congress, the national organization representing all branches of the mining industry throughout the United States, including bituminous and anthracite coal. Needless to say, the American Mining Congress is vitally interested in any problem affecting the mining industry and the safety and welfare of its employees.

The preceding witnesses have pointed out the harmful effects that the bill before you would have upon the coal-mining industry, particularly the serious threat to the health and safety of persons engaged in underground mining operations as a result of the storage of gas in reservoirs within the area being mined. They have likewise demonstrated the necessity of preserving the reserves of coal which will be needed for our future national security and economic well-being. The American Mining Congress heartily endorses the statements made by these witnesses.

The American Mining Congress does not favor legislation which provides for further Federal encroachment on the prerogatives of the several States to protect health and safety and property rights within the States. It is our belief that if it is in the public interest to condemn property for the purpose of storing gas underground, it is likewise in the public interest that the several States exercise their sovereign authority in prescribing the necessary condemnation procedures and regulations.

If S. 525 were to be adopted, it would be a further step toward centralizing in the Federal Government those powers that justly are

reserved to the States.

Some States, namely West Virginia, Kentucky, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, and Mon

tana, now have on their statute books authority to condemn private property for the purpose of underground gas storage.

Similar measures are under study in other States, including Ohio and Pennsylvania.

We submit that such authority must rest with the various States, as each State dealing with its own local problems, and cognizant of the geological conditions in the particular areas, can best determine what is the proper and practical solution of underground gas storage within the State. There is no need for this function to be handed over to the Federal Government, as would be done under S. 525.

It was pointed out during the previous hearings that the right of the Federal Government to authorize the taking of land for underground gas storage could be adverse to the rights of the citizens of the State involved.

For example, when this problem was directed to Mr. Jerome K. Kuykendall, Chairman, Federal Power Commission, during the subcommittee's hearing on March 3, Mr. Kuykendall stated that State commissions may appear before the Federal Commission and endeavor to show that paramount State interests will be jeopardized by a particular storage project. He said if a State could prove that a storage project was detrimental to a particular area of a State, it is highly improbable that such application would be approved. He also stated that the Federal Power Commission had no rules or regulations regarding protection from explosions which might result from underground gas storage.

Although Mr. Kuykendall's response reflected a proper recognition of the rights of the States to protect their citizens, it may be emphasized that the personnel of this Commission is subject to change, and its attitude with respect to the recognition of State authority could likewise change. Accordingly, we urge that your committee reject S. 525, and we recommend that proponents of the bill seek their condemnation authority from the States concerned, which have the inherent power to legislate on matters directly affecting the property rights and safety of their citizens.

You have been told of the great hazard that exists from abandoned gas wells that are uncharted and are extremely difficult to locate. If gas is stored in areas where such wells exist, present or future mining operations in such areas are faced with the constant danger of breaking into abandoned wells, resulting in a heavy inrush of explosive gas with catastrophic consequences.

The only effective protection that can be afforded underground mine operations is to completely exclude lands that underlie active mines from use as gas storage areas.

We agree with Mr. Woomer that that is the only real solution. We do not want to have a holocaust to prove how real and serious this danger is. You spoke a minute ago, Mr. Chairman of taking every possible precaution to anticipate danger and try to prevent it. We should like to point out, however, that if you go down the road with bad brakes you are asking for an accident; and in the same way if you store gas under a coal mine you are asking for an explosion.

The coal mining industry in compliance with Federal, State and local laws has spent many millions of dollars making working places

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