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Mr. LONG. What rate of pilot train- So I think it is proper to go back to cluded from meeting proficiency requireing is proposed by the amendment? 1951. I believe the Air Force should be ments for flight pay. I would call to your Mr. FERGUSON. Up to 10,000. constantly planning for an expansion of

attention that a close personal friend of

mine, Col. James Johnston, who is now in Mr. LONG. As I understand, there training. If war came tomorrow, our

Korea, has 1442 years of rated service and will be approximately 18,000 planes in pilot-training program could conceiv

has just shot down his tenth MIG. The Air the Air Force when it reaches its proj- ably jump about 5 or 6 times this num

Force has very slowly, and I criticize it for ected strength.

ber. But we are now talking about an this slowness, come to the conclusion that Mr. FERGUSON. That is correct. That is correct. interim period.

age has nothing to do with a man's ability There are approximately 47,000 pilots I wish to comment briefiy on what the

in combat. During World War II age exnow. Therefore, if we put the new men Senator from Louisiana (Mr. LONG]

cluded many officers who would have been

of great service to their country had they in we will crowd out the older pilots who said. We cannot have inefficient men in

been allowed to fly in combat or to command are skilled and who have had the 10 years airplanes. I do not care if he is sitting

at older ages. Older pilots do not have the required to fly some of the jet bombers in the tail or is sitting on the right daring of the younger pilots, but they do and cruisers.

hand side in the compartment. The have the understanding and the knowledge Mr. LONG. Is the Senator aware of whole crew must be trained completely. and the intense interest in their equipment the fact that in most of the transport I will not subscribe to any lessening of

which enables them to get the most out of planes and bomber planes which I as- standards or lessening of qualifications.

it. To arbitrarily and without any considersume would be the majority, there are

ation of ability exclude all personnel in the An ineficient man might take over a

Air Force with over 15 years of service from two pilots, a pilot and a copilot, and plane and lose not only the plane, but

further proficiency flight requirements that the copilot is usually completely all the men in it.

would be a very serious mistake. qualified to be a pilot?

We have always had high standards Of the flying officers now on duty in the Mr. FERGUSON. That is correct.

of qualifications in the Air Force, and Air Force, over 18,000 (about one-third) have Mr. LONG. If we could get the planes I will fight to my last breath any at- already seen combat in Korea. During the and extend the Air Force we could, if tempt to reduce those standards. But past 2 years the Air Force has been almost necessary, put a less experienced man

entirely dependent upon the so-called protoday we are not talking about stand

ficiency pilot and new flying training gradalongside a copilot and a less experi- ards; we are talking about the training

uates for Korean replacements. Without enced man alongside a pilot, and the of pilots.

the leadership, experience and know-how planes could be operated just as effi- Mr. President, I ask unanimous con- afforded by these more seasoned officers, our ciently without a great amount of train- sent to have printed at this point in the combat effectiveness could not have been ing of the young men who would take RECORD a statement I submitted to the maintained. Any reduction of the minimum the place of the copilots. Committee on Appropriations concern

standards of flying proficiency will, in adMr. SYMINGTON. If that premise ing section 628 of the House bill.

dition to establishing increased accident is correct, is it not true that it is fun- There being no objection, the state

rates, provide a requirement for increased

precombat training with resultant increases damentally wrong in the beginning to ment was ordered to be printed in the in dollar expenditures. have two pilots in the cockpit? RECORD, as follows:

There is a very close correlation between Mr. FERGUSON. It would all depend

STATEMENT BY SENATOR GOLDWATER the flying experience of the individual and on the destination of the flight. The Air

his accident rate. That means that the

Section 628 in House bill limits proForce itself would determine what men ficiency flying in the Air Force to a period

young pilot with lesser experience will it wanted in the pilot's and copilot's

show a higher accident rate. However, not to exceed 12 hours during any 3 conseats.

as a man grows older and gets more exsecutive months for any officer whose pri

perience, the accident rate tends to level off Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, mary duty involves participation in oper

and stays level pretty far out into time. will the Senator yield further? ational or training flights.

Like civilian enterprise in general and civil Mr. FERGUSON. I yield.

Because the Air Force has been negligent airlines in particular, the Air Force must rely Mr. SYMINGTON. I wish to express in correcting the abuses evident in connec

upon experience to increase flying efficiency my appreciation for what the Senator tion with the certification of eligibility for

and effectiveness. Just as the airlines would from Michigan did in the Senate comflight pay, it was inevitable that the Con.

not trust expensive aircraft, cargo, and pergress should get into this administrative

sonnel to the care of green, inexperienced mittee with respect to flight pay. I befunction of the Air Force and the Air Force

pilots, likewise, the Air Force, as the greatest lieve it will pay off for the Air Force. must accept this blame and start immediate

airline in the world, cannot depend upon inThere has been some discussion in the corrective action.

experienced crews to carry the payload of Senate to the effect that it would not The provisions of section 628 anticipate

combat weapons and personnel. Experience make any difference if more money were a budgetary saving in the cost of flying hours

pays off in dollars as well as combat provided for the training of pilots. We through the limitations in proficiency fly- effectiveness. broke up the Air Force in 1946 and

ing. It has been argued that the sum of The following table clearly demonstrates

$118,144,800 could be saved by the adoption that aircraft accidents decline with exstarted it again in 1950, as a result of

of this amendment and I would like to point perience as typified by age. the Korean war. It is like building an out a fallacy in this argument. The sum

Accident rates per 100,000 first pilot-hours apartment house. First it is necessary

is arrived at by assuming that it costs $100 to build a big foundation in order to

and per 1,000 pilots, July to December an hour to fly an airplane. I would like to

1950 support the structure. point out that the cost of fuel is a minor

Major Some persons criticized the pilot- item in the maintenance of a plane and

accident training program in 1951, a year after that whether that airplane flies or not there

Pilot age:

rate the Korean war started. If we follow is a substantial cost to its maintenance.

21.--

111. 6 through with the feeling that seems to In fact, if an airplane is not flown for a

22_

50.6 be developing, to the effect that the less period of time, it could become more costly

23

69.7 "to fly than if it were flown regularly. Air

24.

51.9 money that is given to the Air Force, the planes, whether they fly or not, are sub

25.-

47.3 better the Air Force will be, it might be jected to daily inspections, including the

26_.

41.4 a good idea not to give the Air Force any running up of engines, and are subjected to

27_.

31.0 money, and then we will have a perfect periodic, thorough inspections based on fly

28...

35. 7 Air Force. ing time or the lapsed number of days, so

29...

25.4 Mr. GOLDWATER. Mr. President, the savings anticipated by this section just

30..

34.9 will the Senator yield? aren't possible.

31.--

27.7 Mr. FERGUSON. I yield. The proviso which limits flying time to 12

32_

28.3 hours during any 3. consecutive calendar

33

36.4 Mr. GOLDWATER. The Senator from months is restrictive to the point that pilot 34.

25. 1 Missouri does not understand why we proficiency will decline to an unacceptable 35.

15.3 should refer to the year 1951. We might standard. Among those affected will be

36.

11.1 hark back to the year 1942. Our active flying officers engaged in operations, opera

37

17.1 pilot-training program got started rather tional planning, command and other duties

38.

12.4 late in 1941. We were training pilots at affiliated with training, combat, and combat

39.

11.5 support. an astronomical rate. In fact, we had

40 (and over)---

1 12.15 Section 628 arbitrarily - and without any some bases throughout the country that

1 This rate remains constant for balance of consideration of ability or future usefulness were turning out more than half the

career. to the Air Force in positions of commands, total number the Air Force set as a goal further provides that all rated personnel Of equal and perhaps more pressing confor a year.

with over 15 years rated service shall be ex- cern is the effect of the proviso upon the

35.0)

3/ 19.0)

professional quality of our Air Force leader

terest. To deny Air Force officers the right ship. This proviso, coupled with the limita

Rank

Number Percent to fly when they have the skill and want tions on flying hours, will make it impossible

to use it would be like denying the right to maintain the high standards of profes

General...

358 1.5

of surgery to a doctor or the right of argusional competence presently required of our Colonel..

2, 655
4.0

ment to a lawyer. This will create a serious senior flying officers. It strikes at the tradi- Lieutenant colonel..

4, 277
6.0

morale problem. In fact, the news that tion of personal, active participation in flight

the amendment is in the bill has resulted Major...

11, 507 16. 5 leadership so long an essential part of the

in much discomfort and dissatisfaction military flying service. As General Patton Captain.--

$90.5 24, 595

among the pilots of all ages in the Air Force so aptly said, "You can't push a noodle across 1st lieutenant..

13, 104 20.0474 already. the plate-you have to pull it.” This applies

2d lieutenant..

12, 953

I earnestly urge, because of the false imto leadership, and in such highly profes

Total...

69, 449 101.0

pression of savings, because of the dangers sional field the full strength of leadership

involved in lowering flight proficiency standwould be impaired if the commanding officers

ards and because of the harm to morale that and operational officers of squadrons, groups,

Proficiency flying will affect about 20,000

would result through the adoption of the or wings were not rated personnel having full flying officers, or 30 percent of the total.

provisions of section 628, that my amendacquaintanceship with the equipment in After becoming a major and on up to the

ment be accepted and the provisions of sectheir command. Younger pilots would regrade of colonel, the pilot's chances of being

tion 628 be struck from the bill. The Air sent any other situation. behind a desk become increasingly greater,

Force can work out this problem and it Affected will be approximately 4 perbut this does not lessen the possibility that

must be told, in strong language, to do so, cent of the flying officers in the Air Force. he may become engaged in operational

and I certainly would not expect it to take It is this 4 percent to which we must look flights or in combat flights during the course

longer than the next year to weed out those for leadership, experience, and professional of his career. It can be observed from the

who do not want to fly, those who are not fit judgment necessary to enable proper plan foregoing table that approximately 27 per

to fly, and those who for other reasons should ning and employment of our air weapons cent of the officer strength of the Air Force

be removed from flying status. systems. Only from current experience can

will be of major's rank or above in 1954, and these officers recognize the possibilities and

they are officers who will be denied adequate Mr. LONG. Mr. President, will the limitations of these systems. The develop

proficiency training if the provisions of sec- Senator yield? ment of commanders, from the individual tion 628 become law.

Mr. FERGUSON. I yield. combat aircraft to the major air com

We are all aware that the Air Force has

Mr. LONG. I was trying to illustrate mand, is dependent upon accumulation of

been guilty of flying-pay abuses from its flying, administrative, technical, and execu- very inception. But the elimination of these

that we are not nearly so hard-pressed abuses should be an Air Force administrative tive experience. The restrictions imposed by

for pilots as some persons would lead section 628, if continued, will increase by responsibility which the Air Force must be us to believe. I am not advocating that years the time necessary to develop the ex

compelled to exercise to a greater degree it is necessary to have an inexperienced perience required to command our combat than it has in the past. Some progress has man as a copilot. We do not have to. crews, our squadrons, our wings, and our

been made in this respect. The Air Force, We already have experienced pilots. Acmajor commands.

by constant evaluation, has been removing cording to the Senator from Michigan, Now, I have no argument, nor am I holding officers from flying status in recent years at

we are training 8,000 pilots a year for any brief for the officer who is permanently

a rate in excess of 1,000 a year. All couriers assigned to an administrative or desk job in the Air Force have been removed from

18,000 airplanes, which would be peak and who continues to draw flight pay by flying status. Stewards and attendants have

strength. That would mean that over making so-called proficiency flights. But

been removed from flying status. Every a 2-year period sufficient pilots would be somebody has to run the Air Force. Not all lawyer in the Air Force Judge Advocate sec- trained to provide almost one pilot for of those in the Pentagon like to sit behind

tion has been returned to full flying duty or every airplane. a desk. Many of them would rather be out taken off flying status, at his own option.

In about 3 years enough pilots could on a flying assignment. However, those who Flight surgeons are being continually re

be trained for every pilot position in the no longer want to fly should be grounded by

moved from flying status on an individual a proper flying evaluation board or the proper basis, particularly those with highly devel

Air Force, plus having a backlog of 47,000 application of Air Force Regulation 60-2.

oped medical skills. The Air Force is now in pilots to call upon. This regulation provides a minimum require

the process of establishing a flight status Mr. FERGUSON. General Twining, ment for a pilot of 100 flying hours a year,

selection system which will require a periodic who is in charge of the Air Force, has divided into 15 hours of night flying, 20

review of each officer to determine if he shall indicated very clearly that he would like hours of instrument flying, and 65 hours of remain on flight status.

to examine the program in all its details. navigation and transition flying. Fifty per

Instead of adopting the provisions of seccent of these requirements must be met each tion 628, I would suggest that the Air Force

In 1953, only 6,000 pilots were trained in be subjected to strong resolution by the 6 months or the pilot is removed from flying

a year. So we are now up to 6,000, and status. This, I can tell you from 24 years

Congress, indicating that it is the desire the Senate, without being asked by the of flying experience, is the very minimum of Congress that the Air Force remedy this Air Force, wants to compel the Air Force, for the maintenance of proficiency in all situation. I believe that it can be accom- with the facilities they have to increase types of aircraft-not only the small ones,

plished by administrative procedures within the number to 10,000. I believe the new but the big ones. I would not hesitate to the Air Force without legislation. This

Chiefs of Staff ought to be allowed to say that a pilot who flies less than 100 could be accomplished by properly applying

work out the problem. I think they can hours a year has no business getting into an the provisions of Air Force regulation 60-2, airplane. There are many things that a requiring minimum flying requirements. An

solve it. I think training is now costing

too much money. That statement is pilot learns to do instinctively, but the in- evaluation board might also be established volved procedures in instrument flying, the which would operate much like the Navy's based on facts we have received. I underconstant necessity for thorough acquaint

Promotion Board. All rated personnel, stand that preliminary training by prianceship with the location of controls in his when they reach their 40th birthday, could vate contractors costs less than training cockpit, require constant practice. Taking be evaluated by this Board to determine by the Air Force itself. I do not advocate off and landing an airplane is something whether or not they should be continued

training by outside contractors. I think anybody can do. It's what goes on between on a rated status. Those whose qualifica

the Air Force should become so proficient, the take-off and the landing that makes for tions obviously did not fit them for com

and should have its own training plans safety, and a man could no more be a safe mand or operational posts at a high level pilot with less than a hundred hours a year would be dropped from flying status. This

so well laid out and its training force than a lawyer could maintain his proficiency would not necessarily mean that they would so well prepared that it could train peror a doctor his skill by working only 6

be released from service, because they would sonnel needed to serve as pilots. months of the year. serve in administrative capacities, in supply,

Some of the items are not only for This will not result in a saving of dollars. materiel, etc.

personnel, but are It will result in a waste of life and equipBut I strongly question whether the Con

but are for maintenance, ment and, if for no other reason that this, gress wishes to adopt the provisions of sec

operation, parts for planes, and repairs. tion 628, whereby men who are engaged

Mr. President, let us give the new Joint section 628 should be removed from the bill.

in operational command will no longer be Chiefs of Staff the right to come to ConThe Air Force plans to have a total of

required to fly and proficiency flying in the 124,545 officers at the end of fiscal year 1954.

gress and ask for additional money if Air Force will be limited to 48 hours a year. Of these, 69,449 will be on flying status.

they say it will be necessary to train Skillful piloting is a bond that holds men This is a little over half total officer strength. together, just as skillful attainment in the

more pilots. At present they say they (Pilot strength alone is considerably less field of law or the field of medicine holds do not need the funds. Let us keep tight than half total strength.)

men in those professions to a common in- hold on the purse strings, to see if we cannot get greater efficiency and more will not be the pilots for them, because there There being no objection, the letters pilots for the same amount of money. is no point in training pilots for the air

were ordered to be printed in the RECORD, craft unless there is a base for them and a Mr. COOPER. Mr. President, will the

as follows: Senator yield? wing for them.

Hon. HOMER FERGUSON, Mr. FERGUSON. I yield.

In another place, on page 1352, he United States Senate, Mr. COOPER. I have followed the said:

Washington, D. C.: argument made by the distinguished

General PICHER. We will not have 143

I am a stanch advocate of national defense Senator from Michigan during the de- wings, sir. We will have the combat aircraft

and always have been. But I am thoroughly bate, and I have supported his reasons for 143 wings.

convinced that everything will be done

for preparedness this year that could have ing. It appears to me however, there Senator McCARRAN. You will not have the

been done before the $5 billion cut was oris a contradiction in the position of the men to man those. Your pilot training pro

dered. In fact, I am convinced that under Department of Defense with respect to gram is not keeping pace with your production of wings.

the plan approved by President Eisenhower this one item. It is the position of the

General PICHER. That is correct, sir.

and Secretary of Defense Wilson that we are Department of Defense that combat

going to get more national defense in shorter planes are provided for a 143-wing pro- I have said that the arguments against time and at less cost. gram by the budget, even though in the budget figure for aircraft procure

EDWARD A. HAYES,

Past National Commander, American other respects, it looks toward a full 120- ment was illusory and I voted to support

Legion. wing program.

the committee. But because of the conMr. FERGUSON. That is correct. tradiction between combat planes for 143

HOMER FERGUSON, That is, it will be reached in the regular wings and pilots for 120 wings I will vote United States Senator, course. to increase the training program for

The Capitol, Washington, D. C.: Mr. COOPER. One of the strong pilots to man the 143 wings.

I strongly endorse the action of the House arguments made in support of the budg- Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, I

on the 1954 defense budget and I am pleased et is that the amount provided in the know that it does not seem to make much

to support the recommendations of Presibudget will provide the combat planes difference what the old Joint Chiefs of

dent Eisenhower and Secretary of Defense

Wilson. I am convinced that competent for a 143-wing establishment. But it Staff felt about the matter

civilian leadership must have the final auis stated that the 7,200-man pilot pro- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The

thority over military appropriations. If in. gram relates only to 120 wings.

Chair inquires of the Senator from discriminate lobbying is permitted to destroy Mr. FERGUSON. No. I think the Michigan if he has yielded the floor. that authority we soon may expect a strong, facts will show there are now sufficient

Mr. FERGUSON. No; I was looking

centralized general staff that will place selfpilots for the full 120 wings. There are

perpetuation ahead of the country's ecoup something. 47,000 pilots.

nomic well-being. Mr. COOPER. I stated yesterday the Senator from Michigan yield to the The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does

EDGAR C. CORRY,

Past National Commander of AMVETS. that I did not believe the arguments

Senator from Missouri? made in opposition to the Air Force budg

Senator HOMER FERGUSON, et were to the point, and were artificial, Mr. FERGUSON. I yield. I wish to

Senate Office Building, because they did not relate to the quesa look up something in the RECORD.

Washington, D. C.: tion before the Senate. The only ques

Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, I

We know that the President knows the tion has been with respect to the figure know that it does not make much differ

facts-all the facts—and that he would setproposed in the budget, as against an ence what the old Chiefs of Staff felt, tle for nothing less than what our security increase of $400 million for 200 B-47's, and I agree that as soon as possible we requires. Consequently, I feel we must acwhich the Air Force did not ask for. should have an opinion from the new cept his judgment, which is reflected in the But it seems to me that this item of Chiefs of Staff, because in the meantime military program for which the funds are

recommended in this bill. pilot training is a contradiction. The we are operating in a military vacuum

JAMES E. VAN ZANDT, Department of Defense contends that with respect to plans, and that might be

Member of Congress, Past Comit will have sufficient combat planes for confusing and unfortunate in case we

mander in Chief, Veterans of For143 wings. At the same time, the De- should get into further trouble in the

eign Wars. partment admits that the 7,200-man world. pilot training program for the regular The Senator from Kentucky [Mr.

Hon. HOMER FERGUSON,

United States Senate, Air Force will be sufficient only for a COOPER), my distinguished friend, is en

Washington, D. C.: 120-wing force. tirely correct. The Air Force believes

President Eisenhower's life represents a Mr. FERGUSON. I do not understand I do not understand that 7,200 pilots are necessary for a 120

reservoir of experiencing knowledge of milithat. I understand the facts to be that wing program, and it is certain, I am

tary requirements necessary to adequately the number they are going to train in the told, that it is not enough for a 143-wing guarantee our national security. Certainly coming year will equip them, as they get program. I feel sure that will not make if world events dictate a change in policy, the planes, with the number of pilots nec- much difference in the decision, because President Eisenhower would be the first to essary, up to 143 wings, and that any- we have not yet obtained an opinion recommend a change. I urge support of his thing further would be excess. It would from the new Joint Chiefs of Staff.

recommendation to reduce the national be putting men in at the bottom and Nevertheless, my distinguished colleague military budget.

FRANK C. HILTON, pushing seasoned officers out at the top. from Kentucky is correct. General

Past Commander, Veterans of ForThe Air Force would rather have an ar- Picher would stand by his testimony. I

eign Wars. rangement under which men can be have checked that in the past 48 hours brought in as they are needed. They ex- with the Air Force. The Air Force repre

Mr. MONRONEY. Mr. President, I

should like to associate myself with the pect to go above 7,200 a year. They will sentatives meant what they said at the

Senators who have spoken yesterday and go as high as 8,400, and the money is pro- hearing. vided for it. The House said they should Mr. MONRONEY. Mr. President

today in behalf of giving America an Air

Force that will be second to none. I have $30 million less for pilot training Mr. FERGUSON. I yield to the Senaalone, which we restored. The House The House tor from Oklahoma.

am proud to be associated in this fight felt that they had a sufficient number of

with such men as the distinguished junMr. MONRONEY. I am seeking rec

ior Senator from Missouri [Mr. SYMofficers to operate the Air Force.

ognition in my own right. Mr. COOPER. I read from page 1354,

INGTON), former Secretary for Air; the Mr. FERGUSON. I yield the floor.

Senator from Georgia [Mr. RUSSELL); part 11 of the hearings, from the testi

Mr. FERGUSON subsequently said:

the Senator from Arizona (Mr. HAYDEN); mony of General Picher. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent

the senior Senator from Texas [Mr. General PICHER. 7,200 pilot training rate to have printed in the RECORD at the

JOHNSON), who is also minority leader; for the Regular Air Force will be sufficient conclusion of my remarks on the bill the Senator from Alabama [Mr. HILL); for the 120-wing force. Obviously it is not

four brief letters which I have received. sufficient for the 143-wing force. Therefore, I should like to have them appear in the

and the Senator from South Carolina if you buy aircraft, combat aircraft for the

[Mr. MAYBANK). I feel that those men, 143-wing force, there will be more airplanes RECORD, indicating the views of the because of their long study and experithan there are units to put them in and there writers.

ence in connection with this problem, know and understand, perhaps, more we can rapidly start increasing our pilot Kai-shek's army, I hope he realizes that about what is at issue here today than training program if we have a war. At in many armies there are many very the new Secretary for Defense. But if the same time the chief problem, from a young men at the beginning of the war. I am able to interpret the debate cor- military standpoint-and this I know During wartime, we take many •men at rectly, the Secretary for Defense has after years of service in the Pentagon the age of 18 and 19 years. That brings dictated the amounts of the Air Corps is to keep the country from being de- down the average. On the other hand, budget which the Senate and the body stroyed in a matter of days, if not hours, we have been trying to get as pilots men on the other side of the Capitol will under the new concept of the atomic who come out of college, rather than finally pass. age and the jet bomber.

boys who are just out of the high school. I am especially proud to see the great Mr. MONRONEY. I thank the Sena- Mr. MONRONEY. I thank the Senand heroic fight made by the junior tor for his observation.

ator from Louisiana. On the question Senator from Missouri [Mr. SYMINGTON), In line with this amendment, our of winning time, which we cannot pay who has been on the floor every minute Government must create an adequate for, I dare say most Senators know of of every hour, armed with facts gained reservoir or stockpile of the men who cases of young men who were killed as Pfrom his experience in the difficult posi- must fly the supersonic planes. If this 38's spun into Long Island Sound. . Those tion of Secretary for Air. He has met bill is to be rammed through the Senate kids were put into high-powered combat the arguments which have been made in tonight, the Senate had better adopt an aircraft, because we suddenly were support of the drastic cuts in our first amendment to the bill guaranteeing that drawn into war and had to have pilots. line of defense, the Air Force.

there will be no need for a combat Air A young man, a Harvard student, worked Judging as a layman the argument Force to meet hostilities around the in my office one summer. He was visitwhich has taken place in this great de- world for a period of 2 or 3 years.

ing at my home after he had graduated liberative body, I think the decision, by The proposed cuts would render in- from primary flight school, and he was all odds, should go to those who main- effective an efficient combat Air Force going to fly a P-38. An older aviator tain that it is highly dangerous to make which could take its place on the world who was there at the same time was the cuts which the majority party are front.

talking to him. After the boy had left pushing through.

Another important factor which I

which I the older aviator said to me, “I am afraid I wish to associate myself with the think should give us pause has been men- you will not see that chap again." I said, senior members of the Appropriations tioned in the words of the senior member "Why not?” Committee who, year after year, have of the Appropriations Committee, the He said, "He has not had sufficient gone through the difficult task of allo- Senator from Arizona [Mr. HAYDEN), hours in the air to fly so hot a ship.” cating funds. I refer particularly to the who stated that the average age of the Mr. President, that is the penalty we distinguished Senator from Arizona (Mr. Air Force was 29 years.

pay in the lives of hundreds of our best HAYDEN), who has offered an amendment Think of it, Mr. President. Twenty

Twenty young men, because time does not perwith respect to pilot training.

nine years is the average age. I have mit us to give them the background The best argument I have heard for heard many times on the floor references training so they can safely become the pilot training was the statement by the made to the combat effectiveness of the world's greatest pilots.

world's greatest pilots. While we have distinguished chairman of the Armed troops of Chiang Kai-shek, with their the time I do not think we ought to put Services Committee [Mr. SALTONSTALL), average age of 27. We have an Air dollars ahead of the lives of our airmen, who pointed out that the ratio required Force whose average age is 29, and we and ahead of the security of the Nation. for training a pilot was six experienced deny funds to give ourselves an adequate Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, will airmen for each pilot trained. Think of reserve and an adequate stockpile and the Senator yield? that. It will mean some time and some an adequate group of trained pilots.

Mr. MONRONEY. I yield. money, in peacetime, to keep in the train- Mr. LONG. Mr. President, will the Mr. SYMINGTON. In corroboration ing schools those six experienced airmen Senator yield?

of the position which the Senator from for each pilot.

Mr. MONRONEY. I yield.

Oklahoma takes, despite what in my But suppose an emergency should arise, Mr. LONG. Did I understand the opinion is loose talk from the standand we had to devote six experienced, Senator to say that 29 is the average point of facts with respect to the pilottrained airmen to the production of each age of our pilots?

reserve program, I should like to present pilot. We could not buy time. We Mr. MONRONEY. As I understand

an illustration from Congress. could not spare from our combat effec- from the distinguished Senator from There was in the House of Representtiveness the men who would have to be Arizona, that is the average age of our atives a fine young Congressman from ordered to the front all around the world. Air Force pilots.

Pennsylvania, Bob Coffee, who had a And yet, according to the statement Mr. HAYDEN. I said that the aver- notable battle record. He was flying in of the man who, I presume, is the best age age of the men who fly the B-47, the National Guard and spent every bit qualified on this subject, it would require which can deliver the atom bomb, is 29 of time he could get away from the House six experienced, time-tested and proven years.

of Representatives in flying. The Air airmen to produce each pilot. While we Mr. MONRONEY. Mr. President, this Force came to me and said that he did have the time, we are putting dollars vast reservoir of pilots that is talked not have enough hours of flying to fly ahead of the precious time element in about is made up of young men who flew a jet, and would I discuss it with him. preparing for any contingency.

the B_17, B-19, and B-25 for 50 or 75 I did. He was very decent about it, but Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. President, will missions over Germany. They were he said, “I am going to continue to fly." the Senator yield?

called back in the Korean war. In the He spun in his jet plane, and that was Mr. MONRONEY. I yield.

meantime they had married and had the end of a fine young Congressman. Mr. SYMINGTON. First I wish to children. I am told that men in civilian Mr. MONRONEY. Mr. President, we thank my distinguished colleague from life who are getting little businesses cannot buy time in training men to fly Oklahoma for those undeserved but very started and have families growing up supersonic planes. The staggering numkind remarks.

are not the ideal Reserve pilots. We ber of victories the United States Air In support of the position he has just must get the youth and put them Force has had in Korea has not been partaken, the junior Senator from Arizona through this long period of training. It ticularly because the Sabrejet is a [Mr. GOLDWATER] mentioned the fact will cost dollars, but we dare not risk greater plane than the MIG 15, but bethat if we have a war we can rapidly obsolescence in the Air Force, either in cause our pilots have had the training expand our pilot training program. At mén or material. I believe we would be to make them better pilots. the same time, it has been stated here penurious and sacrificing the safety of Mr. President, since we all admit that that years are required to train a good the Nation if we adopted that kind of there is a gap between the power of Rus. pilot. policy.

sia's air force and ours, with the balance Consider the fact that the entire Mr. LONG. Mr. President, will the of power resting largely on the side of United States might be seriously crip- Senator yield?

Communist air power, I should like to pled, if not destroyed, within a matter Mr. MONRONEY. I yield.

ask, When will the time come for us of days, if not hours. What kind of Mr. LONG. When the Senator com- to close that gap? Are we going to wait fantastic talk, from a practical stand- pares that average age with the average to close it when it is convenient from a point, do we indulge in when we say that age of the soldiers of General Chiang budgetary point of view to get out of second place and get into the first place A few months later the Korean situa- underestimates our requirements for airposition of airpower, or are we going to tion “broke.” Again we found ourselves power, with the result that we lack the close the gap when there is a definite without proper preparation for war. aircraft and the airpower we need, the military danger?

The rest of the Government took or- resulting situation will not serve to boost I have heard the argument made on ders, I suppose—and the Senate fol- the stock of General Motors Corp., but the floor of the Senate that we must lowed—from another Secretary of De- it will cause us to gamble with the secuget rid of the peaks and the valleys, fense, Mr. Louis Johnson, who took ac- rity and safety of the entire free world, and that we must have a sustained posi- tion to reduce the number of wings in which rests upon the strength of the tion in which the United States can con- the Air Force.

United States, particularly its airpower. tinue from year to year.

Today we are told we must not follow

Mr. President, I think it is a sad day Mr. President, I feel sure, after hear

the testimony and judgment of the Joint for the Nation when we neglect our deing the debate on the bill, that as a

Chiefs of Staff or the battle-tested judg- fenses to the extent that we follow what result of what we are doing today we ment of the pilots who have participated I believe to be the ill-considered advice will have a sustained position as a sec- in the battles in Europe and in Korea, or and lack of experience on the part of ond-class airpower. Instead of having the judgment of General Spaatz, who to the present Secretary of Defense, and peaks and valleys we will freeze our- day is the adviser to the President of the disregard the careful study and the wellselves permanently in the valleys. If United States, so far as our Air Force

chosen testimony of all the military exwar should come, and God pray it does in the European theater is concerned; perts, whose duty it is to try to keep not, it will mean that we have frozen but we are supposed to take the judg- our Nation secure. ourselves in the valley of death. With- ment of a brand new group, the brand

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The out proper air power, with our enemy new Chiefs of Staff, who in a few months

question is on agreeing to the amendpossessing the atomic bomb, this Nation, will be on the job and will be asked to

ments of the Senator from Arizona [Mr. I believe, would be at a terrific disad- study these matters.

HAYDEN). vantage.

It is proposed that we disregard the

Mr. LEHMAN. Mr. President, I deAs my friend, the distinguished junior judgment of most of the Members on

sire to associate myself with the remarks Senator from Missouri has stated, this this side of the aisle, who saw the mis

of the junior Senator from Missouri is not a budget based on military need; takes which were made in 1939 in regard

[Mr. SYMINGTON] and the Senator from this is not a budget based on military

to this matter and who saw the mistakes Oklahoma (Mr. MONRONEY). I have experience; it is a budget based on the which were made in not doing every

listened to the debate all day, and I have dictates of the Secretary of Defense and thing humanly possible to have a 70- participated in it quite actively. I ne Comptroller General in the Pentagon group Air Force before the Korean sit

think much of the debate has been comFlying officers, both on and off the record, uation “broke."

pletely fantastic. During the debate I have told me that these cuts are to a

Today we are asked to march down

have had the feeling that I was living in great extent going to disrupt not only the line in following the judgment of a

an Alice in Wonderland world. the force and energy of our Air Force, truly great American and great industrial genius, a man who was the head of and survival of our country and the secu

We are concerned with the security but also its morale. As the distinguished junior Senator one of the great corporations of our

rity and survival of the free world, upon from Missouri has stated, these figures country, namely, the present Secretary

which world peace depends. Yet the represent force. We cannot go into of Defense, Charles E. Wilson. But, Mr.

Senate has rejected an amendment Montgomery Ward or Sears Roebuck President, I ask to be excused from fol

which to some extent, at least, would and order in 30 minutes, a nice, shiny, lowing his judgment on this matter. In

strengthen the air defenses of the bright atomic bomber that will carry stead, I prefer to follow the judgment of

United States. Certainly adoption of the atomic bomb, or a souped-up super

the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who have had sonic fighter that will fly against the this matter under study for years, and

that amendment would not care for the

entire situation; but it would at least MIG's. We must have lead time, and the judgment of the Chief of the Air

provide sufficient funds, to the extent of design, and prototypes, and long periods

Force and the judgment of General of testing. We prohibit the making of Spaatz, who has long been studying this B-47's or other essential aircraft.

an additional $400 million, for 200 more any purchases unless appropriations problem in terms of the situation in the have been made, and therefore the pasEuropean theater.

Now we are debating the question of

the training of pilots. Certainly no one sage of the bill with the drastic cuts in Last year this body voted, without a

has had greater experience with the reit will freeze the natural development dissenting vote, for a 143-wing Air Force.

quirements and periods of training and we should have. But now Mr. Charles E. Wilson, the pres

kinds of training jet pilots must have I remember a little bit of recent his- ent Secretary of Defense, takes a differ

than has the former Secretary of the Air tory during the brief period I have ent view; and less than 20 Members of Force, the present junior Senator from served in Congress. In 1939, if the the Senate wish to have the Senate ad

Missouri [Mr. SYMINGTON). He has told United States had had 5,000 first-line here to the larger number, for which

the Senate voted without a dissenting pilots. We know that the testimony he combat planes, and had warned Hitler

us that years are required to train such not to move into Poland, I do not believe vote only a few months ago.

has given here is correct. Hitler would have moved into Poland,

I am sure Mr. Wilson is a great inbecause we would have had the airpower dustrial leader. No doubt when the

Yet, solely for the purpose of saving a to have made it highly doubtful that he president of General Motors Corp. is

mere pittance-in relation to the other would have taken the risk to touch oft scheduling the production of Chevrolet appropriations we have made and the World War II. We did not have those automobiles, for example, he will not appropriations we will continue to 5,000 first-class planes, and we saw the hurt his company if he underestimates make-of less than $50 million, Senators results in the loss of millions of lives and

the production needs for 1 year. In are willing to sacrifice the lives of our wreckage and dislocations in the entire other words, if the required production pilots and the security of our country. world, because we were practicing econ

were underestimated, the result would It seems to me completely fantastic that omy even in those days, as we seem to

be that the dealers would not be over- such a situation should obtain in the be practicing it now on the vital mili- loaded; but the demand would continue Senate. tary strength of the United States. at a high level. People who wished to

We know from the best possible tesI remember in 1950, the House repeat- wait a few months for them, although of the pilots is absolutely essential, not

buy Chevrolets probably would have to timony that careful and expert training edly—and I am proud to say I was a

in that event they would simply think Member of the House of Representatives that the Chrevrolet must be a very good

only to their safety, but also to the deat that time—and consistently supported automobile, in view of the fact that the

fense of the United States. Yet we are a 70-group Air Force. The bill went to

demand would then exceed the supply. quibbling over the question of the approconference, but only a handful of Sena- However, that situation would not hurt priation of $50 million to make such tor were fighting for the 70-group Air the General Motors Corp.; in fact, it training possible. Force, and the Senate conferees opposed might help it.

Mr. President, I hope very much init. The House stood pat, and finally, But if the same gentleman, who now is deed that the amendments of the senior rather reluctantly, the Senate gave in. the head of our Defense Establishment, Senator from Arizona will be agreed to.

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