There is only one Lynn Fontanne, just as there was only one Richard Mansfield, one Henry Irving, one Booth.

Mr. WEIDEMAN. It is an economic problem. I am not willing to have Lynn Fontanne and Charlie Chaplin take the American millions that they get from the American public and go out of the country and thereby deprive some good American citizen that we have to support as a welfare problem from making a decent living. still for feeding our folks first.

I am

Mr. CELLER. You draw inferences that are hardly to be drawn from the statements made. You do not know, and I do not know, whether Lynn Fontanne takes money out of this country or keeps it here. I do not know what she does with it. But I will say this, that you cannot transplant or exchange somebody for an actor or actress like Lynn Fontanne. She is unique and peculiar and unlike the substitution of a shoemaker for a shoemaker; you cannot substitute Lynn Fontanne for another actress.

Mr. WEIDEMAN. You can develop them just as well as you can develop Members of Congress. [Laughter.] Sometimes they get to thinking they are unique, but the people back home think differently and every once in a while we are supplanted and a new man comes in our place and turns out to be just about as good as his predecessor. Mr. CELLER. I will say to the gentleman he cannot be replaced; he is like an actor or an actress in that respect. [Laughter.]

Mr. WEIDEMAN. Yes; he can be replaced very easily.

Mr. DIES. You made one point there that I think is an error. You are using certain arguments and you say that if this law were enforced actors and actresses, some that you have named, could not come to the United States. Your argument is that at the time they came they had no distinguished merit. Now, assuming that to be true, that the actor or actress wants to come to the United States, although he or she has had little or no experience abroad, and they want to come into this country to live, why not let them come like any other immigrant, let them enter under the immigration laws like any other man that wants to come over here, later on hoping to be a lawyer or doctor or anything else. Let them comply with the immigration laws.

Mr. CELLER. Then he could not come over, because you have restricted, narrowed the quotas so much that he could not come in. Some quotas are negligible in numbers.

Mr. DIES. You have got 150,000 a year under the quota.

Mr. CELLER. That is divided all over the world.

Mr. DIES. Well, 150,000 is a lot of people.

Mr. CELLER. You cannot open, for example, the quota from Poland You cannot come from Poland

now.

Mr. DIES. You do not need any Polish actors over here.

Mr. CELLER. I do not know whether we do or not.

Mr. DIES. Under your argument why not say: "Not only do we need foreign actors in order to build up our standards, but we also need foreign carpenters, foreign brick masons, foreign other things"? Why limit it to actors?

Mr. CELLER. Because one is an art and the other is an ordinary mechanical trade. They are quite different.

Mr. DIES. I have seen shoemakers that made art of their work.

Mr. CELLER. Possibly you may wish to classify a shoemaker with an artist or with one having peculiar talent like an actor or actress, but I would not put them in the same category.

Mr. DIES. The shoemaker that does his work well is just as much an artist as the fellow that gets out on the stage and imitates Shakespeare. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRMAN. Let us finish up, gentlemen.

Mr. CELLER. There is only one more point I want to make and I will have concluded. I am sorry I stirred up so much controversy among you gentlemen.

The chairman has stated that there are a great number of foreign actors and actresses in Hollywood. I do not know how many there are, but I question the number that the chairman has stated. But if they are there, I will say this: That it is quite essential for the export trade of the motion pictures that we have a certain element, a certain number of foreign actors and actresses in Hollywood. I will say to our distinguished and esteemed friend from California, Mr. Kramer, it is absolutely essential to have them, because if you attempt to export thoroughly American pictures to France, England, Italy, Sweden, you will do very little business with them in those countries. You must have that industry more or less international, otherwise you will destroy your export trade, and then you will disemploy, as it were, thousands of American workmen. You must employ some alien actors otherwise you cannot export. Greta Garbo has undoubtedly, for example, helped our picture business in Sweden.

There are 300,000 persons employed in Hollywood and elsewhere in the motion-picture industry. This bill would seriously hurt this employment, because of its effect on the export of films. If our export of films is injured the effect on trade in general is serious. Our films and talkies are subtle but effective ads for American goods. They stimulate the demand for American goods. Our pictures, showing our typewriters, refrigerators, motor-boats, tractors, autos, sewing-machines, and other apparatus, stimulate the purchase by foreigners of these comforts and conveniences of American life. Motion pictures are excellent salesmen.

Furthermore, the decision under this bill is left to an American consul or one of his subordinates. He cannot possibly have knowledge of the facts. How can he tell the fitness or unfitness, the ability or disability of an artist? He becomes a censor of persons. This is utterly repugnant to the dramatic art.

There is a decided brake that the dramatic profession has upon any undue influx of foreign actors. The actors' organization known as the "Actors' Equity" can withdraw their members from any cast. Furthermore, the "Actors' Equity" exacts a toll or percentage of the salary of every foreign actor playing in this country. I am not certain whether this assessment is 5 or 10 percent of the weekly earnings of every alien actor.

The argument advanced is: Why should a foreign actor come here and take the bread out of the mouths of native actors. By the same token of argument we can say: Why should an English author be permitted to have his works enter this country and thereby take the bread out of the native author's mouth. If we bar alien actors, the next move would be to bar alien plays, novels, and so forth. The next move would be to place an embargo upon Barry, Pinero,

Henry Arthur Jones, Masefield, Hauptmann, Anatole France, and others.

Directors of motion pictures would also be excluded if this bill were enacted. Directors who came here as obscure persons and who later developed are Edmund Goulding and Frank Lloyd of England; Ernst Lubitsch, Germany; Frank Capra, Italy, and many others. Alexander Korda came to the United States about 8 or 9 years ago. He successfully directed a number of American pictures, but, as he was only here on a temporary visa, the Department of Labor refused to extend his stay and he returned abroad. In the last year he has directed two of the outstanding pictures of the world for an English producing firm, namely "Henry the Eighth" and "Catherine the Great", thereby creating for the American motion-picture industry very serious competition both in the American and foreign markets. Most of the foreigners who are engaged in motion pictures are artists whose services cannot be substituted by others and their development occurred in America and to this Nation's profit. There is ample opportunity for anyone with real ability.

The motion-picture industry does not discriminate against American talent. The industry is constantly searching for new personalities,. new talent that can be developed into stars and outstanding artists. The professional life of a motion-picture player is of necessity a precarious one. The public clamors for new faces and new ideas.

It must be kept in mind that a large percentage of the revenue derived by the American motion-picture industry is derived from sales of films in foreign countries. If it were not for foreign distribution, American motion-picture companies would not be able to amortize their investment. We cannot afford to jeopardize our foreign distribution by closing the doors of Hollywood against foreign talent, directors, etc. The product is an international one and we must have authentic types to portray even the smallest roles or our films would be ridiculous when shown in the countries we are endeavoring to depict.

It is a well-known fact that the success of the national recovery program is largely on the maintaining and building of our export trade. It is not only essential to the motion picture and all industries allied to it but to the Nation that nothing be done to in any way retard export trade.

The CHAIRMAN. At this point by unanimous consent the Chair would like to insert the exact law dealing with American actors in London. (See p. 104.)

Mr. DIES. That is what I want. The chairman's word has been challenged here, and as I took the chairman's word I look to the chairman to come through now and support his statement.

The CHAIRMAN. I shall put it in the record. It is quite a large paper, and I will have it analyzed and a copy of it will be supplied to every member of the committee.

Mr. DIES. It bears out your statement?

The CHAIRMAN. It bears out the statement that the Chair made. Mr. DIRKSEN. May I ask the witness one more question? In your interpretation of the bill, do you believe an actor to include trapeze performers, aerialists, or any other one that does hippodrome work?

Mr. CELLER. No; personally I do not.

Mr. DIRKSEN. You are familiar with the fact that in the circuses and hippodromes they advertise them as the "Flying Jo-Jo's" and the "El Paloma Trio", and the "La Belle France, Swinging Aerialists." Is it not your intent and notion that they should be admitted under the generic definition "artists"?

Mr. CELLER. No, but I will say this. Look what you do on the other hand. You allow professional singers and artists to come in. They are not affected by this bill, but when you have a musical review or a ballet like that which is coming to Washington next week (the Russian ballet) professional artists, they can all come in musical reviews, but you keep out others who should be permitted to come to this country.

Mr. DIRKSEN. Under your contention how are you going to keep them out? They are artists are they not?

Mr. CELLER. No, under the interpretation that has been made, the ones I have mentioned are absolutely excluded, embargoed, but the singers, either on the concert stage or for the opera, the variety, vaudeville, hippodrome musical review, musical companies, can come in because they are specifically mentioned and excluded from the contract labor clause and the general statute, whether they be highbrow or low-brow singers.

Mr. CROWE. They are still plowing over there with a horse and a mule or a cow and a mule. They are so far behind that you would hardly think of them competing in just this one line.

Mr. CELLER. What was that, Mr. Crowe?

Mr. CROWE. I say over in Europe they are still plowing with an ox and a mule hitched together, and you would hardly think they are so far ahead with their actors.

Mr. CELLER. I think if the gentleman will go to Europe he will find more progress in some ways than there is in this country-not all Europe, but some parts of Europe.

Mr. SCHULTE. Where, for instance?

Mr. CELLER. England, France, and Italy, in the northern part. I thank you very much, gentlemen.

Mr. DIES. They have made great progress in revolution. They shoot each other up about once every 6 weeks.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you, Mr. Celler. Now we will proceed to the next witness.

How long will you want, Mr. Langner? We wanted to hear the proponents first and then the opponents. You are with the opposition. STATEMENT OF LAWRENCE LANGNER, REPRESENTING THE THEATRE GUILD, NEW YORK CITY

Mr. LANGNER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I would like to have 5 minutes. My name is Lawrence Langner. I represent the Theatre Guild, also the American Theatre Society which runs theatrical seasons in Boston, where we have over 3,000 subscribers; in Chicago, where we have over 7,000; in Philadelphia, where we have around 6,000; in Pittsburgh, 3,000; and in Washington, D.C., where we have 2,000. I am sorry we do not have more in Washington but we have 2,000 subscribers here and we have a play at the National Theater right now.

I wanted to explain to you that I do not come just as somebody from the New York theater. Our Theatre Guild has its subscribers in the large cities, and we have many in other cities all over the country.

Mr. DIES. Who operates this guild?

Mr. LANGNER. The Theatre Guild is made up of a board of directors which is supported by subscription audiences in these large cities. Our purpose is to improve the culture of the theater.

We have sent companies as far as Texas. We do the plays of Eugene O'Neill. We have at the present moment Mr. George M. Cohan, who is a friend of one of the gentlemen here, and who is one of the greatest actors in this country. We have him with us.

We do the plays of the finest American authors, and we are 100 percent for the American theater and have been since our beginning. We are possibly the second largest employers of actors. We have nearly 300 actors on our pay roll at the present moment. In addition to those actors, we give employment to something like 400 other people.

Mr. DIES. What percentage of those are foreign actors?

Mr. LANGNER. I do not think more than 2 or 3 percent of those actors are foreign actors. But, gentlemen, I am down here today because I want employment for American actors, and that is why I am against this bill, and if you will hear me patiently I will explain to you why I am against this bill.

My associates and myself are the practical fellows who have to pay the bills. We are the fellows who have to keep the theaters open, and if you will bear with me I will explain to you why we are against this bill. We are against it because we think it will create more unemployment.

Now, gentlemen, I want to tell you something. At the present moment all over the United States the theaters are empty, and at the present moment there are 25 theaters in New York that are empty; there are thousands of American actors out of work, and there are thousands of actors all over the world out of work. Those theaters are empty not because we are not able to provide actors for the theaters but because there are no plays for those theaters. That is the first point. You have got to remember that without the play you cannot open a theater, therefore the theaters all over this country are hospitable, and the theaters all over the world are hospitable to plays coming from other countries. We would like to get the plays of Eugene O'Neill and Bernard Shaw, but the theaters are empty, crying for plays, and we managers go down on our knees and thank God when we get a good manuscript, whether it comes from Soviet Russia or the State of Texas. It does not matter where it comes from. It is that that keeps the theater open.

What is the next thing that keeps them open? The next thing that keeps them open are the actors of high merit and ability. The public will not pay gentleman, no matter how fine you may be as Congressmen, the public would not pay a nickel to go to see you on the stage, but they will pay to see actors of great ability, it does not matter where they come from. We have got to pay the bills, gentlemen. You do not have a box office up in the gallery of Congress. You probably would make a lot of money if you had one, by the public coming in to see you, but you cannot do that in the theater.