Mr. EVANS. That is correct.

Perhaps I said while you were away that there seems to me to be a real need for federal agencies to be educated and informed to help employees file in a timely way.

Mr. SARASIN. Mr. Evans, since you visited District 25 and did describe the caseload is handled in an alphabetical basis and talked to those people and so forth, another witness testified the phone rang 112 times. Is it your understanding after having been there that that individual was probably calling her case supervisor and if she was away from her desk nobody answered the phone?

Mr. EVANS. May I describe what it looks like?
Mr. SARASIN. Surely.

Mr. EVANS. Room 405 in the McLaughlin Building is approximately 12 by 14 feet and there is a young man or a young woman in there who meets people. There is a multi-numbered telephone on the desk which is always lighted totally and blinking and they don't answer it. I don't know how calls get through. They are there really to meet and talk with people who walk in.

There is also an armed guard in that room. It really doesn't set the right tone for somone coming in there who is hurting. At any rate, you sign in now. You must log in. Your name, your claim number, who you are there to see. I have noted in the last several months a decided improvement in their attitude down there toward people like me. You ask to see someone and they will attempt, I assume, to get that person or to carry your message to the person. Whereas early on, when I started going down there, it was really total confusion and I felt sorry for the people who worked there. It is a quirk in my character, but I felt sorry for them to be so overloaded and so unable to help that I didn't want to be in that place. Clearly there was nothing they could do. A flood of people would come in with their irrelevant questions and what is this young man or woman to do? They all try to help you to go away somewhere.

Mr. SARASIN. When you were assigned to the case worker-let me back up a little bit. Is there another big room full of people somewhere?

Mr. EVANS. I think so.

Mr. SARASIN. This isn't something you can see.

Mr. Evans. You don't go there. He comes out to see you in the small room.

Mr. SARASIN. There is no conference room or area you can go to for discussion?

Mr. Evans. I think there is. A correction. I did go to see Mr. Clem Burroughs, my claims worker, once in his office, but that was it. Whether there is an audience room, I don't know.

Mr. SARASIN. Thank you, Mr. Evans, very much for taking your time and undergoing the discomfort of sitting here all morning. Mr. EVANS. I have been pleased to be here. I hope we have been able to help.

Mr. GAYDOS. From the time you made your mind up to follow the advice of the Labor Department and you sought your retirement disability claim, from the time you made that application until the time it was granted, how much time transpired?

Mr. EVANS. 26 January to 14 April.

Mr. GAYDOS. What kind of medical documentation was required to process that claim?

Mr. EVANS. I obtained identical sets from my family physician and the specialist in my case. I made myself available to what we call the yard doctor but he didn't call me. Someone evidently made their evaluation on the basis of these medical claims.

Mr. GAYDOS. Did you have any personal conferences with any of the personnel in the pension fund?

Mr. Evans. Do you mean Civil Service Retirement?
Mr. GAYDOS. Yes.

Mr. Evans. No, I took it upon myself, in personal desperation, to go to the Civil Service Commission and to find, luckily, the man who-again by alphabet-was in charge of claims A through E. A Mr. Hughes, a very cooperative, most helpful man. It was a welcome meeting. He gave me all the information I needed and personally took it upon himself to put me in a special pay status and to do what he could for me. A very, very nice fellow.

Mr. SARASIN. Mr. Evans, is your disability award based on reasons other than the claim that you are making under the comp program?

Mr. EVANS. I guess not.

Mr. SARASIN. You also described a very serious situation where a kidney was removed.

Mr. EVANS. I hope that has nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, I even wrote a memo to that effect and sent it to the Department of Labor saying there is no connection. After all, it was caught in a routine medical examination around September and I went back to work less than a month after it was taken out.

Mr. SARASIN. I assume there would be no connection between the injury, which I understand was a fall down stairs and the removal of the kidney, but is that the basis for the disability payments? Mr. EVANS. I don't know what is the basis, but I don't think there is any connection. There are many people operating without one kidney and I can't imagine that is a disability.

Mr. SARASIN. Your disability claim, as you understand it, is because of the fall down the stairs and the difficulty that created? Mr. EVANS. That is correct.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. How much regular sick time were you allowed when you were working there?

Mr. Evans. I wish I could tell you that. I anticipated the question and I didn't get the answer. All Federal employees are given-Mrs. SNIDER. Forty-five days.

Mr. Evans. Per year?

Mrs. SNIDER. Four hours a pay period, eight hours a month. You get 13 days sick leave a year.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. Did you lose any of those 13 days as a result of the injury?

Mr. EVANS. I tried to work it out. I think between 185 and 200 hours beginning July 1, 1974, through 30 December, 1976.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. Did you make claim for that period of time off? Mr. EVANS. No. After all, it is sick leave.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. Did you make claim that the time lost was a result of the injury?

Mr. EVANS. Only when I received Exhibit 4, which cited an apparent no-loss of time. I couldn't understand that. That is why I put this together as evidence that I did lose time. I didn't try to recover the time.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. You lost two sets of time. You lost the time allowed under the sick leave provisions that you have and you lost your own time for which you were deducted for, is that it?

Mr. EVANS. I am not clear on that. First of all, the use of sick leave I don't regard as a loss.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. You lose those days.

Mr. EVANS. Well, it is there to use.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. It is a result of an injury. It is not a result of being

sick.

Mr. EVANS. I lost them to injury rather than sickness.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. That is the point, and beyond that, you lost the other time that exceeded the 13 days. You are allowed 13 days a year.

Mr. EVANS. Yes.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. My only point is, did you make claim for those two sets of time?

Mr. EVANS. No. I get tired of making claims.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. As Mr. Sarasin said before, if the law provides certain things you are entitled to, even though you are frustrated, I think it is a question of applying.

Mr. EVANS. I was told I could buy back time and I think some people are familiar with that. To be utterly frank and candid, I didn't have any money to buy back time.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. I don't understand.

Mr. Evans. I am not sure I do either. Once when I pointed out I

lost all this time they said, "You can buy it back."

Mrs. SNIDER. You can't.

Mr. EVANS. Who has the money to buy it back?
Mrs. SNIDER. You're allowed to buy it back.

Mr. SARASIN. Buying back sick time or time towards retirement? Mrs. SNIDER. Toward retirement. If you use all your annual leave and you want that to go on your retirement, you can pay that back. Mr. ZEFERETTI. Thank you.

Mr. GAYDOS. Mr. Evans, in your experience with the pension group, civil service, you had an interview, you filed your application, and you duplicated your medical evidence and documentation, presented it, and you had no trouble, and you had a disposition made of your case. Is that right?

Mr. EVANS. That is correct.

Mr. GAYDOS. In that area under the circumstances it worked well?

Mr. EVANS. Yes.

Mr. GAYDOS. Expeditiously?

Mr. EVANS. Within four months or so.

Mr. GAYDOS. Now you are going an extra month or two here and

you still haven't had a determination?

Mr. EVANS. That is correct.

Mr. GAYDOS. Any further questions?

Ms. BARBOUR. I just wanted to add that he pointed out--
Mr. GAYDOS. For the record, would you identify yourself?

MS. BARBOUR. Yes. I am Nancy Barbour, from Congressman Harris's office.

Mr. Burroughs mentioned that it does take extra time to process Congressional inquiries. To date on Mr. Evans case I had written two letters, and Mr. Harris took the file with him. Did we have any ackowledgement yet?

Mr. EVANS. You said no.

MS. BARBOUR. I don't believe we have even had an acknowledgement on the case and we started-when did we get into the case? February?

Mr. GAYDOS. How much time has elapsed?

Mr. EVANS. It has been well over a month.

Ms. BARBOUR. We have heard nothing.

Mr. GAYDOS. Whom did you write to?

Ms. BARBOUR. The first letter went to the Department of Labor, and the second one went to Mr. Hickey, who is the Deputy-Mr. GAYDOS. Relating to this claim.

MS. BARBOUR. Relating just to Mr. Evans case, and we have heard nothing.

Mr. GAYDOS. When was the latest letter written? A couple of weeks ago?

MS. BARBOUR. Yes, within-

Mr. EVANS. Over a month.

Ms. BARBOUR. A month, and we have heard nothing. That is two inquiries.

Mr. EVANS. I do have carbons of your letters, but I don't know that I have them with me. Just a moment. If the committee is interested I did find some medical receipts from my doctor, if you would like to look at them. They are not all here. I have some eight or nine.

Mr. GAYDOS. You have duplicates of those receipts?
Mr. EVANS. You may have them if you wish.

Mr. GAYDOS. Do you have duplicates of them?

Mr. EVANS. No, sir.

Mr. GAYDOS. You keep them then. Let the record show that receipts were offered and can be obtained, if necessary, by the committee from the witness. I don't want to strip your own file.

Let me say this on behalf of the committee to Mrs. Snider and Mrs. Patton, who has left, and Mr. Evans, I express on behalf of the committee, as I said before, the most sincere appreciation for your taking time out to appear before this committee. I think that your explanations and your evidence presented to the committee are going to prove to be most valuable. It has given us some very practical insight as to the workings of the program and where some of the problems lie.

I think you have done a service not only to the agency and to your place of employment, but your Government, and particularly this committee.

I want you to know that we really do appreciate it and we hope we can reciprocate by taking some corrective steps, administratively, hopefully, encouraging that, or legislatively if and when the facts demand such action be taken. Maybe we can help some other people if we cannot help you individuals specifically, so you have rendered a valuable service.

Thank you very much, and the committee will stand in recess until June 7 at 9:00 a.m., in Room 2257, and we will continue the hearings on the same subject matter.

The committee recesses.

[Whereupon, the subcommittee recessed at 11:35 a.m., to reconvene at 9:00 a.m., Tuesday, June 7, 1977.]