Mr. GAYDOS. Did you contact the personnel representative of tha+ agency where you worked?

Mrs. SNIDER. Yes, I did.

Mr. GAYDOS. Who is that?

Mrs. SNIDER. That is down on the first floor. It is the department that takes care of the injured.

Mr. HARRIS. You did report there?

Mrs. SNIDER. I had to. I had to fill out forms and everything. I have one of them with me.

Mr. GAYDOS. Do you want to leave a copy of that with the committee? I don't want to deplete your personal records.

Mrs. SNIDER. I have made adequate copies.

Mr. GAYDOS. We would appreciate a copy if you have it available. Do you have any criticism in that area as to reporting to the appropriate personnel, the authorized person filling out the claims? Do you have any criticism up to that point?

Mrs. SNIDER. I don't think they have qualified people down there in that agency either because when I went down and took all the papers, she was out having coffee and you have to sit around and wait for her too.

Mr. GAYDOS. Did you complain to anybody about that?

Mrs. SNIDER. I complained to my supervisor and I finally told them there wasn't any alternative except to go to my Congressman. Mr. GAYDOS. Is that a one-person office there on the first floor? Mrs. SNIDER. They have one girl who is in charge of all the claims. She takes care of all retirement and all disability too. Mr. GAYDOS. After you had filed your initial claim with that individual, did she instruct you as to what you should do with regard to seeing a doctor?

Mrs. SNIDER. She did not instruct me to do anything. That is why I asked my supervisor about it. I said, "I know nothing about these forms so someone will have to tell me what to do."

He told me to get the receipts and bring them down there, so that is what I did. They said they sent them up to the Labor Department and if they approved it I would be paid.

Mr. GAYDOS. You are talking about the claims representative to whom you spoke in the first instance?

Mrs. SNIDER. Yes.

Mr. GAYDOS. It was then processed by the Labor Department? Mrs. SNIDER. Yes, sir, because they had to approve it before anything could be paid anyway.

Mr. GAYDOS. As of right now have you received full reimbursement for all the monies you advanced?

Mrs. SNIDER. Not exactly, but I just dropped it because I got tired of fooling with it.

Mr. GAYDOS. Could you give me the address of your place of employment?

Mrs. SNIDER. 1111 Constitution Avenue.

Mr. GAYDOs. That is the IRS?

Mrs. SNIDER. That is the IRS.

Mr. GAYDOS. What about the location of the Labor Department Office in Washington? You do not have to know the address. Upon which street is it located?

Mr. HARRIS. 666 11th St., N.W., Room 420.

Mrs. SNIDER. Yes, that is it. I will never forget that office.

Mr. GAYDOS. What is the nature of your duties? What kind of work do you do?

Mrs. SNIDER. Secretarial.

Mr. GAYDOS. How long have you been with the agency?

Mrs. SNIDER. Twenty-nine years.

Mr. GAYDOS. Have you had any other claims before?

Mrs. SNIDER. Oh, yes.

Mr. GAYDOS. What number would there be roughly?

Mrs. SNIDER. I had two before, but I didn't have any trouble.

Mr. GAYDOS. The other claims were properly processed?

Mrs. SNIDER. I didn't have the injury that I had this time either. Mr. GAYDOS. What was the nature of your injury?

Mrs. SNIDER. I had three ribs broken.

Mr. GAYDOS. You were off work for how long?

Mrs. SNIDER. Over 45 days for which I used my own leave for the period over the 45.

Mr. GAYDOS. Two days annual leave over the 45?

Mrs. SNIDER. No, I used more than that, but I had to use that to go back in order to get these papers and things filled out according to the Labor Department.

Mr. GAYDOS. Without going into detail, what was the nature of your injuries on the prior two occasions when you had a claim?

Mrs. SNIDER. My wrist. The other one was I was standing at a window and somebody dropped the blind. I only went to their government office for that. Their doctor's office, which required no payment.

Mr. GAYDOS. The most recent injury you suffered was the one where you ended up spending the most time away from work? Mrs. SNIDER. That is right.

Mr. GAYDOS. Still, as of this time you are somewhat short on being reimbursed as far as monies advanced are concerned? Mrs. SNIDER. That is right.

Mr. GAYDOS. Can you give me a figure on that?

Mrs. SNIDER. I couldn't tell you right now because I have all the bills and things back home, but I got tired of fooling with them. Mr. GAYDOS. Would you give that to your good, hard-working Congressman?

Mrs. SNIDER. I did that.

Mr. HARRIS. We will be happy to supply what figures we can on that.

Mr. MYERS. Mrs. Snider, is there any instructional information provided to you or anyone after receiving an injury on how to apply, what forms are necessary?

Mrs. SNIDER. No, they just gave me the papers and told me to fill them out.

Mr. MYERS. You have to take it upon yourself to find out what you should do and where you should go?

Mrs. SNIDER. Except for your supervisor, but your supervisor doesn't always tell you. They send you downstairs. She is supposed to instruct you and tell you what to do. She says she fails to do it herself.

Mr. MYERS. Perhaps we should have instructions in the offices so they can get right into the claim.

Mr. GAYDOs. Mr. Sarasin?

Mr. SARASIN. It is hard to believe there isn't a pamphlet available. Isn't there some piece of paper telling you how to proceed? Mrs. SNIDER. I was given nothing until ten months later when I went to my supervisor and said, "I don't know how to fill these things out. Would you please tell me what I am supposed to do so I can get my money?"

He goes back to the first floor and he tells the girls to type up the instructions the way the Labor Department wanted them. They typed a list up for me and I followed that. Then I had to take my own leave in order to get this stuff straight.

After I did that, I took it to the Labor Department and still didn't get my check until the Congressman had to go and get it.

Mr. HARRIS. We feel this point is very important. We feel there must be some sort of instruction pamphlet like that printed some place. I can say we have inquired and tried to get such pamphlet in our own office. We do not have one; we cannot find one. We find that is very remarkable.

The point that is made, which I think is terribly important, the conventional wisdom around town here and I imagine around other places, is that when you have a claim like this the quickest way to get it is to go to your Congressman.

Mr. SARASIN. That is unfortunate because it puts us in the position of becoming ombudsmen which has become over the years a big part of our jobs. Obviously the agencies are there to provide the service and they are failing in their job. I agree with you. I find it hard to believe there isn't some simple pamphlet available to at least get you moving in the right direction, or to tell you where to go for more information.

Mrs. Snider, you filed a claim with Blue Cross and Blue Shield? Mrs. SNIDER. Yes.

Mr. SARASIN. If this was a work-related injury, why did you do that?

Mrs. SNIDER. I had to go to the hospital. I came home from work and I didn't realize that I was hurt as bad as I was.

Mr. SARASIN. You broke several ribs, as I understand?
Mrs. SNIDER. Yes.

Mr. SARASIN. How did you do that?

Mrs. SNIDER. One of the employees down there did it.
Mr. SARASIN. How did he do it?

Mrs. SNIDER. I was in the office and he is the type who is always jumping around and cutting up. He ran over and grabbed me and with me being a weakling, I guess, he crushed me too hard and he broke three ribs. Believe me, they had somone following me around all the time, going from doctor to doctor to be sure I was telling the truth. They also went to every doctor I went to and went to the hospital.

Mr. SARASIN. The injury occurred on the job?

Mrs. SNIDER. It occurred on the job, which was unnecessary. Mr. SARANSIN. You did file with Blue Cross and Blue Shield?

Mrs. SNIDER. I had to. That was my only alternative. I had to go to the hospital at five o'clock in the morning.

Mr. SARASIN. I wonder how much of the difficulty you suffered took place because of the conflict between Blue Cross and Blue Shield and the compensation program?

Mrs. SNIDER. I don't know because I couldn't breathe and I had to go to the emergency room where they told me my ribs were broken and I would have a hard time breathing for a while, which lasted approximately four or five weeks. I had trouble breathing and I used Blue Cross/Blue Shield. They evidently paid that because I didn't get anything back on that. They sent me slips. The hospital sent me a statement on what I would have to pay that Blue Cross/Blue Shield did not pay. As far as I know, they did not pay that bill. Blue Cross/Blue Shield paid it.

Mr. SARASIN. Since Blue Cross/Blue Shield paid and would not be responsible because of a work-related injury, I wonder how much of the delay took place because of the difficulty between the Blue Cross and the compensation program? Perhaps it might be helpful if we could get a summary of the file here. Do you have your case number handy?

Mrs. SNIDER. I have it written right here. A-25-67212.

Mr. SARASIN. Would you have any objection if we asked the Department of Labor to-

Mrs. SNIDER. No, I do not. You are welcome to.

Mr. SARASIN. In order to do that, we would have to get signed permission from you. We could not do it without your permission. It might be helpful for us to try to compare their file with the

statement.

Did your doctor advise you to stay out of work for 45 days? Mrs. SNIDER. Yes, he did. My file should include all the things written by the doctor saying I would have to take off so many days. That should be on file because it was given to me.

Mr. SARASIN. You were injured April 23, 1975. When did you file the claims with the Federal Employees Compensation program? Mrs. SNIDER. I called the next morning. I have a copy of it right here where this man wrote it up. It was April 25th. The date of injury, April 23rd.

Mr. SARASIN. You called the next day and supposedly that started the program?

Mrs. SNIDER. This is the thing he wrote up. You see, I wasn't able to go in so I called it in and they wrote it up.

Mr. SARASIN. Thank you very much.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. I have two areas I would like to examine. One, when you went into the hospital when you felt you couldn't breath and you say you used Blue Shield/Blue Cross, did you at that time indicate to anyone in the hospital that it was a compensation case? Mrs. SNIDER. They asked me how it happened, and I told them I got hurt at work the day before.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. Did they ask you then for the Blue Cross card? Mrs. SNIDER. You had to have the Blue Cross card before a doctor would see you.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. That poses a question. In the event that a terrible thing happened and an injury occurred that would have required

immediate treatment in a hospital, I have never seen it where they start asking whether or not you are covered by one carrier or another. I am just curious as to why that hospital would ask you if you were injured on the job and, if so, then say to you, give us your Blue Cross-

Mrs. SNIDER. Excuse me. He didn't ask me if I was injured on the job. He just asked me how did this happen after I had filled out my papers to go in to see the doctor.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. But you could have said to him that this was an injury that occurred on the job and should be covered under the carrier coverage that you have.

Mrs. SNIDER. I have been there, and if you don't have your Blue Shield they do not accept you because they don't have to take you on the compensation.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. I know in doctors' offices we have had the same problem. Once they find out it is a compensation case they don't even want to treat you. We ran across that problem in my own district, but in a hospital we haven't found that kind of a problem, so it is just rather new to me.

The other thing I would like to inquire about is what is the procedure for payment? In other words, as a public employee, if you are out for 45 days you get paid.

Mrs. SNIDER. Yes.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. If you are out beyond 45 days-

Mrs. SNIDER. You are on your own.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. Wait. But the question I want to ask is if there is an award given to you by the compensation board, they can extend payment beyond the 45 days for your loss of time for your injury and, God forbid, if it was a loss of limb. So I am just curious as to how far they went with you.

Mrs. SNIDER. They just went the 45 days. Anything over that I had to take on my own.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. Were you getting paid by the Government for that period of time? In other words, you got paid regularly as you went along?

Mrs. SNIDER. I got my regular paycheck until the 45 days was up. Mr. ZEFERETTI. Did the compensation board give you a check for that amount of money?

Mrs. SNIDER. No.

Mr. ZEFERETTI. I would like to look into that end of it, Mr. Chairman, because as a public employee myself for many, many years one of the things that we had was, and again it might be a rule or regulation that I am unaware of the procedure for paying back. Your loss was given to you in a lump sum which in turn you would pay back to the public agency that you worked for during that period. Whatever the end result, payment for days lost beyond that period of time would be paid to you as time lost as a result of the injury. So in this instance I would really like to take a look at that payback provision they have and see the rule or regulation covering it and determine if we can do something with that so that you get paid for the time loss as a result of the injury because I think that is all part of one claim.

Mrs. SNIDER. Yes, it is.